CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #45*ARREST*

[gngr~snap]

How do they explain the lack of KK being caught on surveillance, yet Patrick was?
This consumptive testing for DNA, it has not been released what they want to test.
****But if and if only...****
How would they explain KB's DNA in the barrel of MG's gun? With a missing bullet??

How will they prove who pulled the trigger??
Moo

 

[MassGuy]

I think it is more likely that PF drugged KB with the drugs KK admitted she could obtain because she was a nurse.

JMO

That would be a bloodless death, one that doesn’t jibe with the crime scene.

Yes, he could have drugged her.

Of course we’d have to ignore evidence and simply make up facts, for that to be the case.

I am genuinely confused as to how some alternative scenario is more likely, especially when we have an account that jibes with what was found in that house.

 

[Mercedes]

I have definitely watched some trials where the defense attorney was hell-bent on convincing the jury that the dead person needed killing.

That lawyer should have been disbarred.

 

[Gardener1850]

What if it is the barrell of the friend's gun?
Would blow back in it be considered consumptive testing?
I KNOW KK WAS IN IDAHO AT 4:30pm on NOV 22nd.

I would never lose site of my gun, but if I did and realized that a bullet was missing, the next thing I'd do is get a flashlight and look down the barrell.
Then I'd call the FBI.
I too always have 8 rounds
(7 in the magazine and one chambered.)
Unless I am at the firing range. I know I'd notice if one was missing for sure!

If it left with KK with 8 and came home with 7, where did the bullet go?
Maybe KK did fire it once to make sure she could and was using for protection because she was so scared.
(no.)
IMO it ties in here somewhere.
They did remove a portion of a wall in KB'S house...
Moo

I don't know if that would be considered consumptive testing on not. Would there be blowback from shooting a corpse?
My personal theory on the missing bullet is that KK might have used the gun to shoot KB's phone in an attempt to destroy it at the Gorge near Gooding, ID (after sending those text messages but before returning back to her house to burn the remains of the phone). That could have stopped it from pinging all the way back to her house but it might not have destroyed the phone enough for KK's liking. One reason I'm thinking this is because I can't reconcile the idea of tossing KB's keys in the gorge but not tossing a disabled phone there too. But if she shot the phone and then wasn't sure if that destroyed it enough she might then decide to burn it as a plan B.

There was a case in Florida where a cell phone actually stopped a bullet and saved a clerk's life and this is what the phone looked like (see link, photo won't copy here):
Cell phone blocks bullet in Florida shooting
I'm sure that most people would not know off the top of their heads how well a phone would take a bullet. If I were trying to destroy a phone beyond all chance of recovery of any info on it by shooting it and I saw the above results I would change my plan to something that would do more damage.
MOO.

 

[MyBelle]

fascinating. I hope they find what they are looking for.

If KB is there, I think they will find her. A friend of mine lost his uncle on 9/11. All that was recovered of his remains was the serial number on his artificial hip and it took a year to find it. Very, very tedious process.

JMO

 

[Artis]

I highly doubt there was menstral blood smeared all over the condo, light switches, bathroom floor, trash can, shower floor, fire place, kitchen, living room floor. I can’t believe we are even having this conversation. There is evidence that KB was murdered!

And there was so much blood that it seeped through the floorboards.

 

[ab01]

That would be a bloodless death, one that doesn’t jibe with the crime scene.

Yes, he could have drugged her.

Of course we’d have to ignore evidence and simply make up scenarios, for that to be the case.

I am genuinely confused as to how some alternative scenario is more likely, especially when we have an account that jibes with what was found in that house.

Alternative facts?

 

[Mercedes]

I think it is more likely that PF drugged KB with the drugs KK admitted she could obtain because she was a nurse.

JMO

I don’t believe KB was drugged, IMO.

 

[Best of What's Around]

If KB is there, I think they will find her. A friend of mine lost his uncle on 9/11. All that was recovered of his remains was the serial number on his artificial hip and it took a year to find it. Very, very tedious process.

JMO

I am sorry to hear that. Here though I do not believe they will have anywhere near the resources nor time they had post 9/11. I hope they find her, but I think it is very possible she is there and will not be found.

 

[Best of What's Around]

I don’t believe KB was drugged, IMO.

There is no evidence that she was, nor is it IMO a realistic scenario given the timeframes and people we are analyzing.

 

[MyBelle]

That's a very interesting thought. And then he made KK kill her when she got there.

KK had the gun in her possession and it was returned missing a bullet so it isn't a theory I'm discarding at this point.

JMO

 

[jewelsmac]

If KB is there, I think they will find her. A friend of mine lost his uncle on 9/11. All that was recovered of his remains was the serial number on his artificial hip and it took a year to find it. Very, very tedious process.

JMO

I certainly hope so...I really want that , more for her family than anything else. I was encouraged by what the Professor had to say about how difficult it would be to have enough sustained , intense heat for complete cremation of Kelseys remains. IF all the ugliness and carnage discussed in the documents, information of the last week has to be put out there , hopefully it results in bringing Kelsey home.

 

[MassGuy]

Alternative facts?

It has to be. Here’s how it goes:

I hate KK and want her to be the killer.

The timeline doesn’t allow for it, so I have to shift it. Facts and evidence are nothing if not malleable, apparently.

PF goes back into Kelsey’s house, and slips her some magic drug that renders her unconscious for a day and a half.

KK borrows her friend’s car, and lucks out, finding a gun in the glove compartment.

She arrives on the 24th, and goes to Kelsey’s house.

There, she finds Kelsey still unconscious from this magic pill, and proceeds to shoot and kill her.

If we literally ignore all the evidence, and suspend reality, this is absolutely plausible.

This ain’t the movies though, this is real life.

 

[ab01]

It has to be. Here’s how it goes:

I hate KK and want her to be the killer.

The timeline doesn’t allow for it, so I have to shift it. Facts and evidence are nothing if not malleable, apparently.

PF goes back into Kelsey’s house, and slips her some magic drug that renders her unconscious for a day and a half.

KK borrows her friend’s car, and lucks out, finding a gun in the glove compartment.

She arrives on the 24th, and goes to Kelsey’s house.

There, she finds Kelsey still unconscious from this magic pill, and proceeds to shoot and kill her.

If we literally ignore all the evidence, and suspend reality, this is absolutely plausible.

This ain’t the movies though, this is real life.

I never considered all of that.

So you're telling me there's a chance.....

 

[gngr~snap]

I don't know if that would be considered consumptive testing on not. Would there be blowback from shooting a corpse?
My personal theory on the missing bullet is that KK might have used the gun to shoot KB's phone in an attempt to destroy it at the Gorge near Gooding, ID (after sending those text messages but before returning back to her house to burn the remains of the phone). That could have stopped it from pinging all the way back to her house but it might not have destroyed the phone enough for KK's liking. One reason I'm thinking this is because I can't reconcile the idea of tossing KB's keys in the gorge but not tossing a disabled phone there too. But if she shot the phone and then wasn't sure if that destroyed it enough she might then decide to burn it as a plan B.

There was a case in Florida where a cell phone actually stopped a bullet and saved a clerk's life and this is what the phone looked like (see link, photo won't copy here):
Cell phone blocks bullet in Florida shooting
I'm sure that most people would not know off the top of their heads how well a phone would take a bullet. If I were trying to destroy a phone beyond all chance of recovery of any info on it by shooting it and I saw the above results I would change my plan to something that would do more damage.
MOO.

Blow back would absolutely come from a dead body if close enough.
They use dead pigs and meat and sponges in ballistic forensics, as well as gel.
It just depends on how close the gun was to the body.

*by the way, I took a photo of the barrel of my gun and there was a hair from my Bichon in it!
I keep it in a safe...
How did that get there???

Anyway...
I am also suspicious what type of guns MG and KB had. Were the bullets interchangeable?
What did the FBI discover when comparing the two.
THINKING....
Yeah, I am beginning think KK was going along with a suicide story. Brought the friend's gun down, someone shot her and POOF!
PK produced KB's gun.
AFTER THE FACT.
If KB was gonna commit suicide she'd use her own gun. After all, he took her out to that exact area the night before TG! Her footsteps were everywhere.
KK- Straight under the bus.
Everything she has has said is not going to match the crime scene.
The cell phones may line up, but IMO the real evidence won't.
And why did he need to travel to check on a dead body in a barn more than once???
ALL Moo

 

[mtnlites]

It has to be. Here’s how it goes:

I hate KK and want her to be the killer.

The timeline doesn’t allow for it, so I have to shift it. Facts and evidence are nothing if not malleable, apparently.

PF goes back into Kelsey’s house, and slips her some magic drug that renders her unconscious for a day and a half.

KK borrows her friend’s car, and lucks out, finding a gun in the glove compartment.

She arrives on the 24th, and goes to Kelsey’s house.

There, she finds Kelsey still unconscious from this magic pill, and proceeds to shoot and kill her.

If we literally ignore all the evidence, and suspend reality, this is absolutely plausible.

This ain’t the movies though, this is real life.

In my experience, if there is a theory that someones WANTS to be true, they'll ignore any facts or evidence that don't back it up.

 

[Irmese]

I'm really curious about KB helping PF with the cattle the night before PF and then her going to pick up medicine for his ulcer. Why ask her to do that? He must have had some ranch hand or ranching buddy he could have asked instead. Was this designed to cause her to be really exhausted on TG day? Maybe he was planning on telling Ma that KB couldn't make it to TG dinner because she was too tired? Maybe he knew she'd act weird when she got really tired out and he was counting on that. In my opinion, KB helping him like this shows that in her mind they are still together. Just seems weird to me. MOO.
Edited for spelling

 

[MassGuy]

I'm really curious about KB helping PF with the cattle the night before PF and then her going to pick up medicine for his ulcer. Why ask her to do that? He must have had some ranch hand or ranching buddy he could have asked instead. Was this designed to cause her to be really exhausted on TG day? Maybe he was planning on telling Ma that KB couldn't make it to TG dinner because she was too tired? Maybe he knew she'd act weird when she got really tired out and he was counting on that. In my opinion, KB helping him like this shows that in her mind the are still together. Just seems weird to me. MOO.

I agree. It shows that atleast on her end, things were seemingly ok.

It also makes the blindfold scenario more plausible, as no one is going to be willing to do that, if they don’t have a level of trust in the other party.

Personally, I think he planned to kill her on that night, and something either went awry, or he decided for some reason, he was going to wait.

 

[Ccging]

Search for Kelsey Berreth's remains in a Colorado landfill

Expert testimony IMO right there, no way PF tended that fire for 48-72 hours, no way it was hot enough. More of KB’s remains are out there, not just ash, I pray they find them.

 

[gngr~snap]

I'm really curious about KB helping PF with the cattle the night before PF and then her going to pick up medicine for his ulcer. Why ask her to do that? He must have had some ranch hand or ranching buddy he could have asked instead. Was this designed to cause her to be really exhausted on TG day? Maybe he was planning on telling Ma that KB couldn't make it to TG dinner because she was too tired? Maybe he knew she'd act weird when she got really tired out and he was counting on that. In my opinion, KB helping him like this shows that in her mind they are still together. Just seems weird to me. MOO.
Edited for spelling

He was up to something! That's for sure.
I did notice she took him home that early morning and drove back to her place without him!
An extra 40 mins when you are dead tired?
He wasn't allowed to sleep there.
Moo

 

[acutename]

Blow back would absolutely come from a dead body if close enough.
They use dead pigs and meat and sponges in ballistic forensics, as well as gel.
It just depends on how close the gun was to the body.

*by the way, I took a photo of the barrel of my gun and there was a hair from my Bichon in it!
I keep it in a safe...
How did that get there???

Anyway...
I am also suspicious what type of guns MG and KB had. Were the bullets interchangeable?
What did the FBI discover when comparing the two.
THINKING....
Yeah, I am beginning think KK was going along with a suicide story. Brought the friend's gun down, someone shot her and POOF!
PK produced KB's gun.
AFTER THE FACT.
If KB was gonna commit suicide she'd use her own gun. After all, he took her out to that exact area the night before TG! Her footsteps were everywhere.
KK- Straight under the bus.
Everything she has has said is not going to match the crime scene.
The cell phones may line up, but IMO the real evidence won't.
And why did he need to travel to check on a dead body in a barn more than once???
ALL Moo

my take on the body in the barn is that he did not want to take a body home on Thanksgiving with other people at his/SF's house. Later, when KK would not take the tote to ID, he went with plan B, but only SF was home by then.