CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[gitana1]

Was this not texted to CB? If so , MOO it is not legitimate.

It depends on the timing. But if it was sent by PF, it still indicates that at some point, she told her mom she did not feel safe around PF and he knew she said that to her mom.

 

[lindaromas]

I find it odd that LE has surveillance of PF coming and going from the house on Thanksgiving but there wasn't any mention of KK being caught on camera during the clean up.

They probably have that and more. It just wasn’t critical at the preliminary IMO

 

[MyBelle]

I find it odd that LE has surveillance of PF coming and going from the house on Thanksgiving but there wasn't any mention of KK being caught on camera during the clean up.

The focus of the AA and the Prelim was to get PF behind bars and to stay there.
They only included what KK said PF told her or they did together and that was sufficient to satisfy the judge.

JMO

 

[ilovechili]

Yes.

Alexis Dominguez KRDO‏ @alexisdomm
On #PatrickFrazee's property investigators found two black totes which Krystal said resembled the one #KelseyBerreth's body was in.

From:

Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #39 *ARREST*

what does he need so many for? future plans he and/or they had?

 

[sun16]

I think the reason LE is at Midway is bc KK pointed them there....MOO

ETA: I haven't heard of any river searches happening..... also MOO

I guess we just have to hope PF didn’t lie to KK about where he disposed of the remains.

 

[MassGuy]

I guess we just have to hope PF didn’t lie to KK about where he disposed of the remains.

She already had enough information to bury him, information that was far more damaging than where he dumped the remains.

I think it’s likely that he told the truth, if he did tell her how he disposed of her.

 

[ilovechili]

Apologies for more graphic imagery. I believe there were high ceilings - and blood on the ceiling. With a high ceiling, a weapon like a bat can also be wielded overhand like an axe. Seems like that kind of blow would be more likely to spatter blood upwards.

Still, I envision him in a rage. I tried randomly swinging a soft foam roller around my living room, which is bigger than KB's, and it's hard to do without hitting the wall or a piece of furniture, even if only a glancing blow.

Great points. This is where part of my issue lies.

ETA: BBM (I never bold or rarely until recently on rare occasion so I forget)

 

[Artis]

I also do not believe KB was murdered with a wooden baseball bat in the condo living room.

1. The condo is very small and tight at 742 sqft with a good part of that upstairs. An adult woman and a baby live there, so there is a significant amount of stuff. The living room area isn't even large enough for a couch but only a loveseat, per the Zillow photos. I have lived in such a space, and I would never have been able to swing a bat without taking out a lamp, TV, etc. or hitting the wall. PF is 6'2" iirc.

2. In the murder of Jason Corbett by his wife Molly Corbett and her father Thomas Martens, both a yard paving stone and a baseball bat were used to bludgeon him. The attack likely began with Jason asleep in bed in the master bedroom of a newer, larger house with a very spacious master bedroom. Molly beat Jason with the paver, mostly about the head, and then her father, a retired FBI agent with a law degree, beat Jason with the baseball bat. Not a mark on them, they claimed self defense. Jason was heavily battered. The bedroom and adjoining bathroom were a bloodbath - the heaviest blood was all LOW, all over the baseboards as Jason tried to crawl away from the assailants. There would be no way to "clean" in just 3 hours; it would need paint. JMO

GUILTY - NC - Jason Corbett, 39, murdered in his Wallburg home, 2 Aug 2015 #10

Corbett home

I do believe she was killed with a bat, at home, but I can fully understand how you would question being able to get the blood off the walls to the point of not being visible to the naked eye. That's a high sloped ceiling in her condo and it would seem like one would need a ladder considering blood was even on the ceiling. I'm also under the impression that luminol showed widespread blood spatter.

If you don't believe a bat was used, what do you think happened?

 

[susiQ]

Yeah. I don’t think he was there at the time.

When KK arrived in Colorado, she picked up the keys to Kelsey’s house, which had been left at the gate to his “ranch.”

She parked in the community center parking lot, and traveled on foot to Kelsey’s house.

There is no mention of PF being there at the time, or where he would have parked had he been there.

He would have had the keys anyways.

She cleaned the house herself.

This is important, as I was up until now, under the impression that PF was there at the time, instructing her where and how to clean.

I wonder if there are incriminating text messages on his part that provide instructions...

Your post just brought something to mind. There was a statement "somewhere" possibly the AA that PF and KK had to return to KB's townhouse to pick up PF's truck. Right? I brought this up once before as that would put him at the townhouse at some point. Can anyone help with a link?

 

[sun16]

Blood from the front of the condo (fireplace) into the kitchen, on the ceiling, on toys, books, the sofa, the undersides of chairs and seeped through floorboards. One blow with the bat and she would have been down on the floor. He had to have struck her repeatedly for blood to have been splattered to so far and wide. No way she survived that.

Unless she stumbled around or ran for a short time.

 

[gitana1]

That text sent to CB, saying Kelsey had her gun back and felt safe with PF (a very weird thing to say, btw) was sent, IIRC, late Thursday. IOW, sent by PF after Kelsey was dead.

Why he strung Kelsey on was because Ma was attached to baby K. imo. Remember those custody papers filled out in August. Custody was a looming issue. Perhaps he never filed those because he knew there was no chance in hell so he decided to kill her, instead. The ONLY chance that baby K would ever have been not in her mother's custody was with Kelsey gone.

Thank you for the clarification! That means though that KB told her mom at some point that she did not feel safe around PF, right? Otherwise, why would he text that? I wonder what that was about.

The custody issues is an interesting one. In CO, his chances of getting equal custody were high as they seemed to be sharing the care of the child. When mom was flying, baby was with dad, etc. It seems the baby was with him a lot. And if she moved, he could stand a chance of being awarded primary custody.

Unless there is something we don't know about.

Someone proposed a theory about PF panicking about the relationship and wanting to get out of it, maybe not with a confrontation. It's intriguing. He did not want to face a break up and I think he didn't want to face child custody court action. Why?

I continue to suspect that he had disordered thinking about his child and his relationship. I suspect he was enmeshed with the baby, saw her as his possession and saw her as having no needs or wants aside from his own. So no right to a relationship with her mom.

I think he felt no love for KB, wanted her out of the picture but did not want to share the baby with his ex at all.

And he did not want to risk having a court order giving him less than equal time. Maybe he was so enmeshed and entitled that a court order for equal custody would've enraged him as well - like how dare a court tell him when HE can spend time with his own kid?

That's my feeling as to why he killed KB. But it is weird.

 

[jewelsmac]

KK claims to have never seen Kelsey's murdered body. I don't believe her.

I think it’s absolutely possible that you are right.

This is the type of lie she might tell, as it is unprovable.

As that tote burned, I think it’s likely that she would have gotten a glimpse of something.

I agree. I think he would’ve wanted her to see it. Proof of what he was capable of, more than just bloody crime scene. jmo

 

[gitana1]

I agree. If she is telling lies, they are ones that are impossible to verify.

Ones that she would be confident telling, without fear of exposure.

Her details regarding how this went down would be true, but she would save face at every opportunity.

If she lies about things material to the crime, her deal is in jeopardy. That’s why she told about those murder attempts, ones that made her look absolutely horrible.

She had already run her mouth to friends, and it was likely that law enforcement would be able to prove a lie.

Yes. If she was lying about the whole thing, there would be zero reason for her to implicate herself in conspiracy.

 

[ilovechili]

I was just reviewing the Affidavit again and the only descriptions of the blood were from KK with the exception of the results of the bathroom testing CBI did - para 27 which includes blood on the ceiling. I have thought for some time that he attacked her while she was in the bathroom - otherwise how in the world could blood be on that ceiling? I thought I heard other blood was found on the wood floor but can't seem to find that in the Affidavit. Even the blood she told them was on the fireplace was not confirmed in the Affidavit, just that the fireplace she described matched a picture they had. para 70. If there wasn't blood everywhere as she described, why would she embellish that aspect? JMO

Agree. I think some of those "facts" of her going on about how much blood and some other things like the fireplace are in the tweets or when the questions and answers were asked. Apologies if someone else already answered this, still catching up. This is why I was hoping the transcript would be out by now.

 

[ajaylee]

Your post just brought something to mind. There was a statement "somewhere" possibly the AA that PF and KK had to return to KB's townhouse to pick up PF's truck. Right? I brought this up once before as that would put him at the townhouse at some point. Can anyone help with a link?

No, darn it, and I remember you pointing that out.

 

[lindaromas]

what does he need so many for? future plans he and/or they had?

I saw a 4 pack on Walmart site with silver/grey clip handles but they looked really small. If you could see all the plastic totes I have! 6 on my patio mainly storing my grandkids toys

 

[susiQ]

It’s damn fortunate for KK, and in the interest of justice for PF, that 800 miles separated them.

Had KK lived closer to PF, it would be a hell of a lot easier for the defense to spin a story that makes KK the murderer.

Fortunately for the prosecution, they can prove that PF committed this murder when KK was back in Idaho.

I truly believe that KK is capable of murder, even if she did chicken out on three prior occasions.

But being capable of murder is one thing, and having the opportunity to commit a murder is another.

If she was in Idaho, she could not have killed Kelsey.

I believe that the prosecution can slam the door in regards to KK being the killer, especially considering the fact that PF’s actions (lies, surveillance footage, cell activity) is documented.

You cannot separate PF from this crime, even if you say that KK is the killer.

So much agree with this. However, in the event that PF never followed through, I have a strong feeling KK would have found a way....eventually. She WANTED KB dead. She is as sick and deranged as PF. MOO

 

[ilovechili]

Thanks for the link. Something jumps out at me and I don't believe I've read it anywhere else. It implies PF was in the townhouse during the time KK was there cleaning. Has anyone else reported it this way? I know it was difficult to hear in the courtroom.

He said Kenney helped Patrick Frazee clean up the entire bloody scene, but she said she intentionally left blood splatters for law enforcement to find.

It is the way it sounds, I agree. And it would almost make more sense. I can't remember why they had to go back for his truck to KB's either... But it was stated... So it sat there from 11/22 Thanksgiving or dates do not make sense or he went back as well at some point...

 

[susiQ]

KK claims to have never seen Kelsey's murdered body. I don't believe her.

And, if she did, PF is unlikely to point it out given his narly circumstances

 

[ajaylee]

And, if she did, PF is unlikely to point it out given his narly circumstances

He appeared to take notes during some of Slater's testimony about what KK said.

Will he take the stand so he can have a chance to blacken KK's name (and possibly KB's) in revenge? Or will his lawyer persuade him that it would better to keep his mouth shut? He doesn't need to testify himself to try to trash KB, KK and her testimony. His lawyer can accomplish that without putting him on the stand.

Opinions, please. I'm assuming there's no chance of a plea bargain. It's all or nothing for PF - he's not paying for his attorney, so he has nothing to lose and probably little to gain personally.