CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[susiQ]

I remember it being brought up here but don't recall reading it anywhere else. It seems a little curious to me since they were communicating by phone that day during the time KK was cleaning. (Nothing would surprise me at this point, however.)
MOO

I've decided to download the AA and have a hard copy next to me for reference I will try to track down that statement! It will be nice if we get a transcript of the preliminary hearing.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I agree. I think he would’ve wanted her to see it. Proof of what he was capable of, more than just bloody crime scene. jmo

I believe KK would have wanted to see it for herself too.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Everyone see this? It seems more precise than the reporters tweets.
Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth

 

[indicolite22]

I'm not sure they do. It looks like there's spots here and there, across at least three rooms, but KK cleaned up most of what would be visible.

Wouldn't the blood spots where she cleaned glow when luminol was applied?

 

[girlhasnoname]

He appeared to take notes during some of Slater's testimony about what KK said.

Will he take the stand so he can have a chance to blacken KK's name (and possibly KB's) in revenge? Or will his lawyer persuade him that it would better to keep his mouth shut? He doesn't need to testify himself to try to trash KB, KK and her testimony. His lawyer can accomplish that without putting him on the stand.

Opinions, please. I'm assuming there's no chance of a plea bargain. It's all or nothing for PF - he's not paying for his attorney, so he has nothing to lose and probably little to gain personally.

I've said from day 1 and still believe it today, PF will remain silent. He's betting the ranchette on reasonable doubt, it only takes one juror. IMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I do not believe the blindfold either or it at least do not believe it occurred the way it was described. That was added in for some reason, imho. So he went to Walmart, all seemed fine and he came back (but shouldn't have been per his story as the baby was already exchanged) and went from zero to 60 in very little time and after putting the baby in a playpen first? Also t not so much rage that anything else was apparently broken, dented, hit, etc.? I am in overanalyzing mode and need to stop . A couple of things I read and watched showed me how many wonder these various things as I do as well and it got me going I guess.

Of the few facts known to us: Both people lied to LE agencies and were caught in lies. Which leaves me far less to believe what is a farfetched story with almost too many details like someone's overactive imagination/more lies...

I agree though that killing that way is generally very personal and that type of crime, the perp wants the victim to see. Blindfold does not fit that scenario.

bbm

I think, perhaps PF used the knotted sweater to prevent the first amount of blood spatter (beating head/face) and loud crying by KB (baby K in the next room). I think also, PF didn't want to see his victim's face while beating it so hard. The candle-smelling-game doesn't fit to the situation (alleged separation-talk before) and doesn't fit to a primitive being like him, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

BBM. If a stranger came to my front door to thank me for returning her lost dogs, I would be frightened because I would know I never returned her dogs. I certainly wouldn't drink the coffee.

Plus, KK made two more trips to KB's but she abandoned the drug idea after the first visit. The next two were pipe and ball bat. Maybe they were caught on the neighbor's camera and warned KK? That is certainly something KB would discuss with her mom.

I actually thought about that story about the dogs, too. The only thing I can figure is that maybe KB had been involved in helping a stray dog get back to its owner, had never met the owner herself, and PF told KK about this as a potential way for her to make contact with KB.

 

[MyBelle]

Thank you for the clarification! That means though that KB told her mom at some point that she did not feel safe around PF, right? Otherwise, why would he text that? I wonder what that was about.

The custody issues is an interesting one. In CO, his chances of getting equal custody were high as they seemed to be sharing the care of the child. When mom was flying, baby was with dad, etc. It seems the baby was with him a lot. And if she moved, he could stand a chance of being awarded primary custody.

Unless there is something we don't know about.

Someone proposed a theory about PF panicking about the relationship and wanting to get out of it, maybe not with a confrontation. It's intriguing. He did not want to face a break up and I think he didn't want to face child custody court action. Why?

I continue to suspect that he had disordered thinking about his child and his relationship. I suspect he was enmeshed with the baby, saw her as his possession and saw her as having no needs or wants aside from his own. So no right to a relationship with her mom.

I think he felt no love for KB, wanted her out of the picture but did not want to share the baby with his ex at all.

And he did not want to risk having a court order giving him less than equal time. Maybe he was so enmeshed and entitled that a court order for equal custody would've enraged him as well - like how dare a court tell him when HE can spend time with his own kid?

That's my feeling as to why he killed KB. But it is weird.

This case will eventually be turned into an episode of "Evil Lives Here." Two people, possibly three, developed a diabolical scheme and none are capable of telling the whole truth. PF has serial domestic abuser written all over him and I think he has his mother to thank for it.

My money is on PF's mother who didn't like the custody arrangement and didn't like KB or her parents. Perhaps she didn't respect their religious practices or was upset the baby's birth certificate didn't carry PF's name. She'd find a way to blame them for something and everything.

Mother Frazee wanted PF (and herself) to have full custody. The only way to do that is to convince a court that KB was unfit such as drugs/alcohol abuse. But KB's stint in the depression treatment center was a year earlier. That wouldn't be recent enough or serious enough to satisfy a judge the baby was unsafe. Thus, they launched their campaign to smear KB's good character and KK was ready and willing to take it to the next level.

JMO

 

[Peppery]

I’m curious how KK had the time, money and opportunity to do so much travel.

For example: three 1600 mile round trips and two 900 mile round trips to Reno in less than 3 months. Idk if she drove to Reno, but 6,600 miles @ estimated 18mpg x approximately $3.00/gallon gas is $1100. If she was driving a 4wd suv through mountains and snow, it could be double that or more. Plus she claims a few hotel overnights, sonic (lol), arranging childcare with her ex, working FT, planning out her work schedule...she had a very busy, expensive autumn!

 

[indicolite22]

I didn't know KK went with him to get her body. How can anybody go to a person's place, view their battered murdered body and then go with him to burn it. This is beyond anything.

They were in it together. It was probably a bonding experience. They both had their reasons to want Kelsey gone.

 

[jewelsmac]

I’m curious how KK had the time, money and opportunity to do so much travel.

For example: three 1600 mile round trips and two 900 mile round trips to Reno in less than 3 months. Idk if she drove to Reno, but 6,600 miles @ estimated 18mpg x approximately $3.00/gallon gas is $1100. If she was driving a 4wd suv through mountains and snow, it could be double that or more. Plus she claims a few hotel overnights, sonic (lol), arranging childcare with her ex, working FT, planning out her work schedule...she had a very busy, expensive autumn!

excellent question

 

[Julia966]

I agree. If she is telling lies, they are ones that are impossible to verify.

Ones that she would be confident telling, without fear of exposure.

Her details regarding how this went down would be true, but she would save face at every opportunity.

If she lies about things material to the crime, her deal is in jeopardy. That’s why she told about those murder attempts, ones that made her look absolutely horrible.

She had already run her mouth to friends, and it was likely that law enforcement would be able to prove a lie.

Yeah, I've assumed the relevant facts are accurate, and then there's some irrelevant embellishments.

 

[susiQ]

I believe KK would have wanted to see it for herself too.

Maybe that's when KK told MS she'd "never seen that kind of evil in anyone." MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

You can order one for $3 per page or $3.75 per page, expedited. FYI, each hour produces approx 50 pages of transcript.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/Forms/PDF/JDF 4 - Transcript Request Form.pdf

So in all seriousness, how much do we think it could be? I'm ready for some centralized info LOL

 

[Herat]

Do we know why Kelsey purchased flowers and dip ingredients? Did they have plans to go to PF's house for Thanksgiving as a family? What about PF's claim that they went to Cracker Barrel that day? Has it been disproved? The flowers were left on the counter at Kelsey's house. If Kelsey left for Idaho, why would she leave them (and the cinnamon rolls) like that? How come the two people involved in this crime both missed simple details?

I think the answers would likely come from CB, Kelsey’s mother.

Which brings to mind...

Would the prosecution make CB come and testify about her last interactions with Kelsey, the conversation with PF, and the fake text(s) she received?

This makes me very sad.

 

[Only4Justice]

At the end of thread #45 there were 2 posts I wanted to respond to. Once again the tote, is it plastic or fabric? I’m honestly tired of trying to figure that out but while I was looking for info on the kind of bat (wood or metal) it was, it said repeatedly BAG. I’ll provide quotes and links below. I don’t “know” personally. This is just what was stated

“That same day, phone records showed that Frazee called his mother and Kenney. Frazee was also seen on surveillance video at his bank with a baby carrier in the passenger seat and the black tote bag in the rear.”

“They both traveled back to Frazee’s home, where he burned the body with gasoline, she said. DA Dan May told ABC News that Frazee's mother, Sheila Frazee, saw the burning black tote bag .”

“After the crime, Frazee joined his family for Thanksgiving dinner before bringing a black tote with Berreth’s body out to Nash Ranch in Fremont County, Kenney said. He put the bag on the top of a stack of hay.”


“After the crime, Frazee joined his family for Thanksgiving dinner before bringing a black tote with Berreth’s body out to Nash Ranch in Fremont County, Kenney said. He put the bag on the top of a stack of hay.”

THE BAT
Frazee and Kenney also burned the baseball bat and trash bags in a horse trough on his Florissant property, Slater said. Kenney told authorities that Frazee had wanted people to believe that Berreth killed herself.

ALL of this info can be taken from this link. I may have missed a few but this is more than enough to say BAG has been mentioned repeatedly and according to KK the bat was wood and they burned it

Patrick Frazee to face trial after preliminary hearing

This is so unbelievable. Wow . Poor Kelsey and Kaylee.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Everyone see this? It seems more precise than the reporters tweets.
Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth

Access Denied - unfortunately. For me in the wrong country at least.

 

[oviedo]

I actually thought about that story about the dogs, too. The only thing I can figure is that maybe KB had been involved in helping a stray dog get back to its owner, had never met the owner herself, and PF told KK about this as a potential way for her to make contact with KB.

Very early on I seem to remember she did help find a dog and the neighbor brought over a baby gate? Will see if I can find that story - for now it is JMO

 

[susiQ]

Everyone see this? It seems more precise than the reporters tweets.
Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth

Awesome @Aydrianna523!! Thank you!!

 

[MyBelle]

He appeared to take notes during some of Slater's testimony about what KK said.

Will he take the stand so he can have a chance to blacken KK's name (and possibly KB's) in revenge? Or will his lawyer persuade him that it would better to keep his mouth shut? He doesn't need to testify himself to try to trash KB, KK and her testimony. His lawyer can accomplish that without putting him on the stand.

Opinions, please. I'm assuming there's no chance of a plea bargain. It's all or nothing for PF - he's not paying for his attorney, so he has nothing to lose and probably little to gain personally.

PF knows what lies KK has told and his attorney will go after those lies. I doubt PF takes the stand.