CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[Gunslinging Granny]

I think Patrick and KK were there at the duplex that afternoon.

A male, homicidal cowboy would never conceive the dumb "sniff the scented candles" excuse or need KK to put on a blindfold. That was a female's idea. That was all KK. If tall, strong Patrick really wanted to use a baseball bat, he would have punched tiny Kelsey in the head and while she was on the ground, he'd pick up the bat and start striking her.

The blindfold was used to give KK time to grab the bat (very likely kept by Kelsey's door since Patrick had her gun) and start swinging.

Links? No. This is just common sense. I'll bet we soon learn that KK and her kids sold those scented candles for 4-H, church, or school fundraisers.
MOO

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

The security camera likely has a motion detector and was probably aimed more toward the neighbors parking area. Imo it’s amazing that it picked up any footage at all.

I don’t believe LE has said much about the utility worker, I think if they thought he played a role it would have been presented.

I believe that kk was having thanksgiving with her family, I don’t believe multiple witnesses would all present an alibi for such a serious crime.

Lying for a friend to a ex husband about kk whereabouts while having, what the friend believed was an affair. That’s a little different than and alibi for murder.

I’m not sure I feel right saying that her father would alibi kk for murder, as far as we know he is a victim as per TOS and should be treated as such.

KK has as much mass as Patrick. She logically should have also been picked up on the security camera. The security camera is clearly unreliable. One can't say KK wasn't there because of an unreliable security camera.

 

[Julia966]

I hate to keep harping on the blood evidence, but do we know that LE found enough to conclude that KB cannot be alive? I wasn't sure about that. Blood in various part of the house and the floorboards would certainly indicate that something violent happened, but I thought that part of the reason they need KK so badly is that they don't otherwise have iron clad proof that she is dead (and who did it).

Maybe I just concluded that from their treatment of KK and there is more evidence to indicate she is not alive than I am aware of.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I think Patrick and KK were there at the duplex that afternoon.

A male, homicidal cowboy would never conceive the dumb "sniff the scented candles" excuse or need KK to put on a blindfold. That was a female. That was all KK. If tall, strong Patrick really wanted to use a baseball bat, he would have punched tiny Kelsey in the head and while she was on the ground, he'd pick up the bat and start striking her.

The blindfold was used to give KK time to grab the bat (very likely kept by Kelsey's door since Patrick had her gun) and start swinging.

Links? No. This is just common sense. I'll bet we soon learn that KK and her kids sold those scented candles for 4-H, church, or school fundraisers.
MOO

Interesting. So I would expect most folks would remember a specific date of Thanksgiving, and who they were with. So you are saying that you think that KKL family is lying?

 

[ab01]

KK has as much mass as Patrick. She logically should have also been picked up on the security camera. The security camera is clearly unreliable. One can't say KK wasn't there because of an unreliable security camera.

And one shouldn’t claim she was there based on that logic as well. There are many possible reasons why kk was not caught on surveillance and I think LE likely knows why. Moo

 

[LovesPeace2]

So Monday he does enter a plea it's not just motions. I wonder since finding out he's a real momma's boy if possibly he may plead out in order for his mom not to testify and end up incriminating herself.just my opinion he may surprise us

 

[mtnlites]

I think Patrick and KK were there at the duplex that afternoon.

A male, homicidal cowboy would never conceive the dumb "sniff the scented candles" excuse or need KK to put on a blindfold. That was a female. That was all KK. If tall, strong Patrick really wanted to use a baseball bat, he would have punched tiny Kelsey in the head and while she was on the ground, he'd pick up the bat and start striking her.

The blindfold was used to give KK time to grab the bat (very likely kept by Kelsey's door since Patrick had her gun) and start swinging.

Links? No. This is just common sense. I'll bet we soon learn that KK and her kids sold those scented candles for 4-H, church, or school fundraisers.
MOO

I guess I'm not getting the "common sense" part because I absolutely believe that PF could have done this on his own and didn't need KK there swinging the bat for him. The candle sniffing may have just presented an opportunity for him.

Scenario:

PF and KB are inside her condo. She's just bought a couple of new candles. "Here," she says, holing it out to him, "this is meant to be Apple Cinnamon but I swear it smells like vanilla."

He takes a sniff. "Smells like apple to me," he shrugs.

She picks up another one marked "vanilla." "No, see? Smell this one and then smell that one? They're exactly the same!"

"I don't see it," he laughs. "They smell the same to me."

"I paid $20 for this Yankee," she complains. "I already had a vanilla one..."

"They're all the same," PF tells her.

"No they're not! They all have a distinct aroma. Why do you think we women collect so many?"

And then, upon looking around her living room, he gets an idea. "If your nose is so good then do you think you can tell what all these candles are without looking at them? I'll bet you $5 you can't."

"Ha, try me."

The baseball bat she uses for defense is in the corner of the room. He'd meant to so something to her the night before, he'd chickened out. Now he's feeling a burst of adrenaline. It all clicks into place. PF goes around, collects half a dozen candles, and lines them up in front of her. "And you can't cheat, either," he says as he wraps the sweater around her eyes.

IMO PF is a few fries short of a Happy Meal, but I think he was perfectly capable of killing KB all by himself.

 

[Charlot123]

I just want to throw an idea out and see what you all think. I have been following this case from the beginning, though some days I cannot post. Everyone wonders what PF saw in KK, how they manage a relationship and so on.

KK made the comment to MS, IF you believe MS, that she believed PF may have killed before.

Could that be the tie that binds them? Maybe he actually did kill someone and she knows or maybe they did it together or maybe it was at her behest?

I am not trying to start a rumor. Sometimes there are little truths in what people say. Maybe when KK told MS she thought he killed before, maybe she knows he did.

I don’t have a clue. But I do wonder if during this investigation LE will take the time to examine this idea and look closely into their past.

Could be. But my first thought would be, sexual attraction on her part and him saying, “we could be so happy if only (KB) were not living here”, or something like it. KK conspiring to kill for her (perceived) future sounds more logical than killing as the tribute to the past. However, the story is so weird, so illogical ( assuming these are all high-functioning adults) that at this point in time, I can believe anything. Everyone’s motive and the relationships on PF’s farm have to be investigated and examined.

 

[Dave F.]

KK has as much mass as Patrick. She logically should have also been picked up on the security camera. The security camera is clearly unreliable. One can't say KK wasn't there because of an unreliable security camera.

Arrest Affidavit, Page, Item 65, Line 5:
"Cell phone call and text records support the fact that Lee and Frazee did indeed have conversation on the 22nd of November, 2018 as Lee reported."
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...lication and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf
I have no idea why this tagged to a different post. This was in answer to GGranny's post suggesting that LE failed to track KKL's burner phone from Idaho to Colorado on the 22nd.

 

[mtnlites]

KK has as much mass as Patrick. She logically should have also been picked up on the security camera. The security camera is clearly unreliable. One can't say KK wasn't there because of an unreliable security camera.

BBM And there hasn't been any evidence, either, that KK was there during the murder, much less that she was the one swinging the bat.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

And one shouldn’t claim she was there based on that logic as well. There are many possible reasons why kk was not caught on surveillance and I think LE likely knows why. Moo

Maybe KK arrived at the duplex at a different time than Patrick and the truck or utility truck blocked the view of the security camera which is why KK wasn't recorded.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Arrest Affidavit, Page, Item 65, Line 5:
"Cell phone call and text records support the fact that Lee and Frazee did indeed have conversation on the 22nd of November, 2018 as Lee reported."
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/Application and Affidavit for Arrest Warrant.pdf

Those records only show one phone calling another. They don't show who had possession of the phones. KK could have used Patrick's phone on Nov.22 to call her personal phone in Idaho which she left with a friend. By her own admission, she had been using burner phones for months.

 

[ab01]

Maybe KK arrived at the duplex at a different time than Patrick and the truck or utility truck blocked the view of the security camera which is why KK wasn't recorded.

I’m not sure how you park a utility truck between the security camera and kB condo, I think the landscaping and fence would be hard to drive through.

Idk I guess it’s possible but not probable?

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

IMO PF is a few fries short of a Happy Meal, but I think he was perfectly capable of killing KB all by himself.

Respectfully shortened.
Yes, he could kill her all by himself. But KK really wanted Kelsey to die and had made multiple attempts driving 1600 round trip to do so. I don't think she'd miss Kelsey's execution for the world.

 

[Charlot123]

Old saying " Two wrongs don't make a right." In this case, well we all know what the wrongs did. One took a life and two built a bonfire . Sadly a good family will live with this the rest of their life's .

And poor baby KB. One day she’ll find out. So horrible. PF never thought about her, in fact. And I don’t believe he loved the child.

 

[Dave F.]

Those records only show one phone calling another. They don't show who had possession of the phones. KK could have used Patrick's phone on Nov.22 to call her personal phone in Idaho which she left with a friend. By her own admission, she had been using burner phones for months.

Using that logic, she could have been is Las Vegas partying on the 22nd, in her hotel hung over on the 23rd and 24th; and made the whole story up to get on CBS morning news. IMO

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I’m not sure how you park a utility truck between the security camera and kB condo, I think the landscaping and fence would be hard to drive through.

Idk I guess it’s possible but not probable?

Go look at the photos of her condo. If the camera was secured to a home across the alley, a parked truck in front of Kelsey's door would obscure the view of people entering Kelsey's door.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

We don't actually know where the security camera is located, IMO. I don't even think we know which neighbor's camera is being referred to. There are multiple places where one could be. I think we determined (to the best of our speculation) that the camera is not on the west neighbor's satellite dish.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Here's a photo showing how a parked car could obstruct the view IF the security camera was across the alley.

 

[ab01]

slater and may have both stated that they can verify kk location on the 22nd. I’m not sure I can say they aren’t being truthful and I sure as heck don’t think they have been fooled.

That’s my opinion and that’s what I believe to be fact. All else goes against what I know about LE.