CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[Kapua]

Something that I am wondering about now after thinking about it more is the vague account KK gave about what PF did with the final burnt remains. She claims she didnt know what he did with them and she even said its possible he threw them in a river as one of the possibles. Wait a minute here KK. Im thinking you would know exactly what he did because you know everything else.

You supposedly watched him burn KB in the tote and you dont know where he went with the burnt remains? I doubt that.

Now I am really wondering if maybe PF and KK only burnt the tote container that once contained KB, the purse, some clothing, and other evidence that they know would burn up cleanly, and maybe PF took the body somewhere else for disposal.

Because PF would know that its almost impossible to burn up a body cleanly so maybe he did dump the body separately first before burning the tote container and the last of the evidence back at his farm.

PF and KK's original plan was if there is no body, then there is no murder. And KK set her story up that she never actually saw KB's body in the tote and just saw a clump as it burned so she could get away with lying about where the body actually went. She could always claim she thought KB was still in the tote when it burned.

Maybe KK still has some sick loyalty to PF to not want the body/remains to ever be found.

Possibly. If this is the case, he had to have put something else in there that had some weight to it, or it would have been obvious that it was empty. Sandbags, maybe? MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

@Hatfield you just reminded me of something. During the supposed earlier attempts by KK, depending on how much of her story we can believe, PF wanted KK to kill KB and then "throw her body in a dumpster." That sure doesn't sound like a way to keep the body from ever being found, which we are now speculating was important to them both...

Maybe it was only important to him since he was the one who ended up killing her. He apparently wasn't too concerned about evidence being traced back to her. Imo

 

[ajaylee]

We've all noticed the incredible detail KK has about some of what allegedly happened, details that could only have come from PF, like the candle game or the tooth - or that Baby K wasn't in the room. I don't know if he just told her the story unprompted or if she kept asking for details.

Given the level of detail she has provided, it does seem odd to me that at no point did PF tell her more about how he killed KB. I don't want to get graphic, but once again, something doesn't pass the smell test. If he killed her with one blow, there shouldn't have been blood spatter everywhere. I just can't see it. I find it hard to believe that at no point did KK say "how did you make such a mess?".

I guess what I'm really getting at is: did PF omit details in the story or is KK not telling LE everything PF told her?

Or is this a situation where we just don't know everything LE knows until trial?

 

[PommyMommy]

Has there been any new info suggesting what PF may have been doing in the townhome for 2+ hours after he returned from Walmart?

He'd been cleaning himself up as suggested by the AA, I wouldn't think baby K would have had blood on her as she was in the back in a playpen. So he does the deed, wipes himself off with baby wipes and then what? Probably on her computer, phone accessing her FB and emails IMO.

Since KB was on PF's family cell plan <oh the irony there> I'm sure he had access to her call logs and activity, but having her phone gave him access to emails and FB . Still doesn't explain all that time to me, especially considering MamaF was waiting at the Franch for TG dinner.

MOO

We don't know that he killed her immediately upon arriving at the townhouse. She could have been in the shower, doing her hair, they may have been arguing... Who knows, but I don't think it necessarily happened the minute he walked in. The bloody footprints indicate that he was doing something afterward - probably showering, changing clothes, perhaps some snooping, and/or maybe gathering some things for K. I hope they have his shoes.
MOO

 

[Hatfield]

Possibly. If this is the case, he had to have put something else in there that had some weight to it, or it would have been obvious that it was empty. Sandbags, maybe? MOO

Not if KK went along with PF to dump the body first somewhere near Nash farm area after they took the tote off the hay bales. KK would know the tote was empty and they still needed to burn the tote (blood + body fluids-sorry) along with other evidence like the purse and PF's bloody clothes.

I just dont trust KK at all. I think she is good at mixing some truth in with some lies.

 

[PommyMommy]

heehee, I wish I had Pommy's awesome *puke* emoji. Hard as I try I can't imagine a scenario where PF has a playful or charming side. I know he must surely.....but I can't bring the mental picture to my mind.

Even when PF was 'lugging' baby K around before he was arrested, he seemed cold and stern. The way he handled her was odd to me. Not arm around with her cuddling into him, but PF with his arm around her middle holding baby K outward. IDK, maybe it's because I now know what he's done, but even back then it seemed distant to me.

Select, copy/paste. Puking

 

[girlhasnoname]

I agree. On the one hand, it seems out of character, but people are many-faceted and PF has been described as an "odd duck" (I almost typed "odd dick", LOL). MOO

I internet love you Kapua

 

[kkdj]

Not if KK went along with PF to dump the body first somewhere near Nash farm area after they took the tote off the hay bales. KK would know the tote was empty and they still needed to burn the tote (blood + body fluids-sorry) along with other evidence like the purse and PF's bloody clothes.

I just dont trust KK at all. I think she is good at mixing some truth in with some lies.

I have a feeling she's so scared and had a lawyer advising her pretty quickly, that she has told the truth. I'm sure she was grilled. She got such a sweet deal from the DA that I think her story is the truth, as she knows it from what PF told her. I worry there might be a problem tho with that PF told her as being all truthful.

 

[MsBetsy]

Has there been any new info suggesting what PF may have been doing in the townhome for 2+ hours after he returned from Walmart?

He'd been cleaning himself up as suggested by the AA, I wouldn't think baby K would have had blood on her as she was in the back in a playpen. So he does the deed, wipes himself off with baby wipes and then what? Probably on her computer, phone accessing her FB and emails IMO.

Since KB was on PF's family cell plan <oh the irony there> I'm sure he had access to her call logs and activity, but having her phone gave him access to emails and FB . Still doesn't explain all that time to me, especially considering MamaF was waiting at the Franch for TG dinner.

MOO

Maybe in addition to using the wipes, he also took a shower. He probably had blood in his hair.
Maybe he did go through her computer. He also may have gone through some drawers and taken some of the baby's clothes or toys with him. Imo

 

[ab01]

I have a feeling she's so scared and had a lawyer advising her pretty quickly, that she has told the truth. I'm sure she was grilled. She got such a sweet deal from the DA that I think her story is the truth, as she knows it from what PF told her. I worry there might be a problem tho with that PF told her as being all truthful.

I don’t believe PF was necessarily trying to fool KK. I think KB body was in the tote. And taken back to the” Franch” to burn. I’m not sure pf felt the need to try to deceive kk about the crime itself, as he needed her help.

ETA: I think kk damn well saw kb body in the fire, she may not have been able to make out exact features. But I’ll bet the Franch that she could tell it was a body

 

[ajaylee]

I don’t believe PF was necessarily trying to fool KK. I think KB body was in the tote. And taken back to the” Franch” to burn. I’m not sure pf felt the need to try to deceive kk about the crime itself, as he needed her help.

I think by the time they got to that point - she had already cleaned the condo - he figured she was in so deep, she would never dare turn him in.

Sadly, the way things unfolded meant he was both right and wrong. She was in so deep that she should be paying a much higher price - but she won't, because LE had no choice but to give her an easy deal to take PF down.

I do not believe PF ever saw that coming. I think he figured either they both went down hard or they both got away with it.

And more and more, I believe he was willing to throw her under the bus entirely, but she just couldn't bring herself to do the killing herself.

 

[Kapua]

I think by the time they got to that point - she had already cleaned the condo - he figured she was in so deep, she would never dare turn him in.

Sadly, the way things unfolded meant he was both right and wrong. She was in so deep that she should be paying a much higher price - but she won't, because LE had no choice but to give her an easy deal to take PF down.

I do not believe PF ever saw that coming. I think he figured either they both went down hard or they both got away with it.

And more and more, I believe he was willing to throw her under the bus entirely, but she just couldn't bring herself to do the killing herself.

If KK had done the killing, PF could have eliminated both of his problems and he could have played it like, "she just went into a jealous rage when she found out about my fiancée." I wonder if that was his plan. MOO

 

[ilovechili]

It is probably nothing but from the affidavit they exchanged the baby in the alley behind KB's. They feel this is confirmed because he was then seen at Wal-Mart with the baby carrier.
He then in fairly short order is seen back at KB's on video entering the front. This can be determined from paragraphs 10 and onward in the affidavit. I can't quite make sense of this.

Was he expected back? Why pick the child up out back if the two of you are getting along, he did not enter the home? If he was expected back, why would he grab the baby first just to take on a shopping errand? Per the affidavit, they feel it confirms an exchange occurred. If the baby was indeed exchanged for visitation, then no plans existed between KB and PF and what was he doing back there? People do not generally haul a baby around for an errand if the other parent is home and one is headed right back there if they did have plans on the other hand. If that is what he was doing, then it would not be an exchange of the baby for visitation most likely.

I have no idea where I am going with this other than something about it does not make sense to me. I am not questioning the affidavit so much as what was going on.

 

[InvSmith]

You're correct. Both these people (KK and MG) are so lackadaisical, it wouldn't surprise me if neither one of them knew the tag was expired.

It's a strange detail to come out if it didn't happen. Why make that up? The truth is often stranger than fiction...
MOO

KKL was so focused on switching cars the expiration was a minimal risk. There is also nothing that verifies felons are intelligent either. This entire plan seems hatched as they go. For all the trips, different cars, different methods, there was still a confession with photos and cellular data. I have no idea why one would chose a bat or metal pole to murder a small woman. This tells me she was a lot bigger adversary in their minds than her size. Good for her. She apparently intimidated the hell out of them.

 

[PrairieWind]

Possibly. If this is the case, he had to have put something else in there that had some weight to it, or it would have been obvious that it was empty. Sandbags, maybe? MOO

Or dead animal

 

[ab01]

Many have speculated that pf May have gone to run errands with KF to allow kB to get around for thanksgiving dinner at the Franch.. moo

ETA at least the way he presented it to KB

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I want to see his brothers interview, the one that is in law enforcement. I would expect because of his position he would feel obligated to cooperate in the interviews. Did he, or did he not?

When my family has Thanksgiving dinner, the rest of the family knows which of the other family members are coming, and if I arrive in my brother wasn't there, I would ask my mother when is he expected. What did his brother think of when his brother was supposed to be arriving versus him arriving? If he was coming for dinner for a family dinner, I would expect them all to arrive at about the same time.

And his brother arrived at about 2:30. If KB was expected, What story did his brother hear about the reasoning for that? Or when did he learn that he wasn't coming. PF called his mother at 4:24, two hours after his brother got there. Hmmmm

KB wasn't sure about whether she was going to do dinner that day, and that is why she wanted the recipe for a dip. So when he re-entered the condo at 1:24 p.m., was she expecting to go out to Cracker Barrel at that time, to go to Mom's house, or that it was going to be canceled completely?

I'm guessing the most plausible thing is that she was under the impression they were going to go somewhere, and he said you get ready and I will go shopping? (ETA and I'm recalling her mother saying that her hair up in the video at Safeway did not look like she was ready to go out, which I thought was a strange remark at the time)

I don't think the timeline allows for him to have killed her before he went to Walmart. It's too tight in my opinion.

ETA, also, wasn't the recipe that she wanted was for a dip in case going out was not going to be done. To make a dip sounds like something to take to somebody else's Thanksgiving dinner versus sitting around and eating a dip at home.

 

[ajaylee]

If KK had done the killing, PF could have eliminated both of his problems and he could have played it like, "she just went into a jealous rage when she found out about my fiancée." I wonder if that wasn't his plan. MOO

I didn't think so when this case first broke, but I do now. She loved him but to him, she was nothing more than a booty call - one willing to drive 800 miles round trip for a weekend rolling in the hay. If she killed KB and got away with it, he'd probably have been OK with booty calls. I think there was zero likelihood he ever envisioned a future together with her.

If she killed KB and got caught, yeah, he had the perfect story - jealous chubby 'ex'.

 

[ab01]

I also think that kk was deceptive in the beginning in regards to where kB remains were located. I do however believe that she has since told LE to the best of her knowledge where KB remains are located. Moo

 

[Dave F.]

No the trip she made to CO from ID where she stayed over in Greely took place on one of the THREE other times KK drove down to murder KB.

KKL probably didn't drive that route, either. My guess is that she drove I84 to Salt Lake City, then I40 to it's end at Bear Mountain junction just outside Rocky Mountain National Park (picking up aunt K en route), Colorado Highway 14 to Loveland and US34 in to Greeley. Then KKL would most likely have driven US85 from Greeley to Denver, which merges into I76, then taking I70 in Arvada (Sheridan Boulevard) to US 285 at the Bear Valley Shopping Center exit, then to Colorado Highway 126 (Pine Valley Road) to Deckers, and Colorado Highway 67 to US 24 in central Woodland Park, then to Starbucks for the Latte Machiatto, and back to KB's.
She was looking for a horse trailer with her aunt, the weather was nice and the roads were good, and there was much less construction. Bungling an Ambien slip was a very short side trip. IMO