Maybe they didn't have enough indication yet that she was involved. Does anybody remember what evidence it was that brought them to her house in the first place? Was it the phone data?
CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*
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I’m not sure I ever read that anywhere, I always assumed it was from information they gleamed from PFs phone data?
I think it makes him look even more despicable. He was too much of a coward to look her in the eye before he killed her. He subdued her into a false sense of security so he could take her by surprise and avoid any confrontation. It was probably quick and easy for him.there is something off with the candle game.
someone who despises you enough to knowingly and with intent to obliterate you with a baseball bat really care about hiding it from the victim?
maybe blindfold someone and shoot them in the head quick over and done with they never knew a thing...sure
but what he did to her and the blood evidence if we can believe any elements of kks version he attacked her all over the condo. she fought him off and SHE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO HER. imo.
the candle game makes kk's "lover boy" seem so much more cuter...don't we all think??
moo
I think he kept up the pretense that everything was okay right up until he murdered her. Imo
That's what I thought, so maybe they didn't know she was involved until after they looked at his phone.
yes that totally makes sense also.
torn about so many things. there are so many plausible scenarios.
either way I don't think KB was restrained for long or taken out quickly.
according to KK there was blood evidence pretty much in every room.
True, but he had dropped enough hints to other people to make it seem as if she could have gone off and committed sucide.
He made sure he told LE about her treatment, or "rehab."
Maybe he just didn't want to be too obvious, by coming out and telling LE that he thought she may have been capable of suicide.
After all, he had to pretend that he, too, had no idea what may have happened to her after she supposedly went on her trip to visit family. Imo
Yes, a head wound would create a huge amount of blood. A powerful blow to the head would have made a mess. PF most likely tracked it throughout the house. I don't think it's likely that she would have been conscious after the first blow, if there was more than one.yes that totally makes sense also.
torn about so many things. there are so many plausible scenarios.
either way I don't think KB was restrained for long or taken out quickly.
according to KK there was blood evidence pretty much in every room.
I hope she was not aware of what was about to happen, and that it was very quick.
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I'm far more impressed with my fellow WSleuthers when it comes to analyzing PF, but the analysis done by a former FBI profiler confirms much of what has been said about PF.
"There are some things that are very clear to me in this," Klismet said. "I believe he's a bald-faced liar, narcissist that is all out for himself."
Based on the evidence that was made public, and assuming it's true, Klismet says Frazee has manipulated his way through life.
Klismet says Frazee believes he's smarter than most, which is a characteristic of a narcissist.
"He's perfectly sane, but he's got that personality where he is, in his mind, far more important than anybody else, and so that's how he's going to manifest his personality," Klismet said.
And Frazee's ability to manipulate others is ultimately what got Kenney caught up in the alleged murder.
"Did she fall under his spell? Yes, because apparently she fell in love with him, and for any gal, he's a very good looking guy, and he's got personality, I'm sure," Klismet said. "He can talk his way right through anything." (I strongly disagree with Klismet on the words he said that I put in bold print, especially when it comes to personality. I like the way Klismet qualifies that PF has personality with that hopeful "I'm sure." We're all pretty sure here that PF has the charm of a sour dishrag.)
Klismet believes Kenney's story about leaving clues for investigators to find at the crime scene. Despite being allegedly solicited to murder Kelsey Berreth multiple times, Kenney said she could never go through with it. He says in Kenney's mind, her only way out was to leave a trail of breadcrumbs.
Former FBI profiler discusses Patrick Frazee's murder charge
"There are some things that are very clear to me in this," Klismet said. "I believe he's a bald-faced liar, narcissist that is all out for himself."
Based on the evidence that was made public, and assuming it's true, Klismet says Frazee has manipulated his way through life.
Klismet says Frazee believes he's smarter than most, which is a characteristic of a narcissist.
"He's perfectly sane, but he's got that personality where he is, in his mind, far more important than anybody else, and so that's how he's going to manifest his personality," Klismet said.
And Frazee's ability to manipulate others is ultimately what got Kenney caught up in the alleged murder.
"Did she fall under his spell? Yes, because apparently she fell in love with him, and for any gal, he's a very good looking guy, and he's got personality, I'm sure," Klismet said. "He can talk his way right through anything." (I strongly disagree with Klismet on the words he said that I put in bold print, especially when it comes to personality. I like the way Klismet qualifies that PF has personality with that hopeful "I'm sure." We're all pretty sure here that PF has the charm of a sour dishrag.)
Klismet believes Kenney's story about leaving clues for investigators to find at the crime scene. Despite being allegedly solicited to murder Kelsey Berreth multiple times, Kenney said she could never go through with it. He says in Kenney's mind, her only way out was to leave a trail of breadcrumbs.
Former FBI profiler discusses Patrick Frazee's murder charge
D
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... AND an irresponsible habit in my eyes to carry around a little girl of this very low age at his work places as a ferrier and who knows where else, while at his Franch there was a grandmother available (who now is even fighting for custody of little K). Did KB know of this poor arrangement between mother/son re "caring" for little K? I think, KB heard lie after lie and was unable to learn the truth, because she had no connection to his circle of friends/clients. MOO
MemPat
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Or maybe he made it up to entertain KK?
enelram
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I think men sometimes get it totally wrong about what women
think is attractive in a man.
I've heard men mention some celebrity that they "think" is a
handsome hunk and I'm like HUH? What we women like is
sometimes way off from what men 'think' we like.
PF was sorta a man's man. The strong, silent type. Rough, tough
and few words. Some foo-foo women like this.
I can picture a rodeo queen, going for his type. Not real deep,
superficial charm. Real-fake cowboy type.
enelram
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Exactly. that first pic of him man-handling that tiny girl, when he
was coming out of his atty's office did it for me. Like she was
just an inanimate ragdoll, with her little legs and body dangling
like a toy he was dragging around. My large shepherd dog is
more careful and caring when he carries his stuffed toys.
Only a few will agree with me and that's OK. I see her as forever being a notorious felon - like Bill Cosby for example, or Monica Lewinsky. Someone whose evil deeds will always be remembered.We are you usually in agreement in thinking, but I'm going to have to disagree somewhat....
I think after the trial and her testimony, and prison time if any, KK will be back in 'business as usual mode'. She doesn't think she truly did something evil, mean ole' PF made her do it, what's a poor girl to do?? <batting eyelashes> No remorse or empathy from KK at all IMO. Her brief 10 second fake tear cry came during the phase when the judge was specifically addressing her sentencing guidelines. GMAB
I see her standing tall and head held high, looking for another co-dependent nut job she can reel in and I wouldn't rule out another run in with the legal system in the future for Miss KK.
MOO
ETA: Change word to phase
The candle scent guessing game always sounded to me like a very feminine activity, a bridal shower party game, something a seller of scented candles would do with potential customers, and KK thinks it is plausible that PF the rancher-farrier was playing this game with KB, on Thanksgiving?there is something off with the candle game.
someone who despises you enough to knowingly and with intent to obliterate you with a baseball bat really care about hiding it from the victim?
maybe blindfold someone and shoot them in the head quick over and done with they never knew a thing...sure
but what he did to her and the blood evidence if we can believe any elements of kks version he attacked her all over the condo. she fought him off and SHE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO HER. imo.
the candle game makes kk's "lover boy" seem so much more cuter...don't we all think??
moo
Seriously, a man the size of PF and little whisp KB - the reality is one punch right between the eyes and KB is out cold. I think he could strangle her with one hand. His brother is LE so may have shown PF how to do a choke hold, most men I know without any LE friends know about this manuever. Why the bloody mess as described by KK? It doesn't follow the suicide, took off to Grandma's, went to rehab, ran away from home, scenarios.
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enelram
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Good Morning everyone.
Kapua, I wonder though, in her little small town, small minded
area if she will slide through with her reputation intact.
It could be twisted to look like she saved the day and her testimony
took down a murderer and that she was hoodwinked by his charm.
Outside of her town, I think you're right but in town, she'll remain
their queen, the happy, fun nurse and the girl from the old time
"good family".
Your post reminded me of another issue.
- PF, KB, baby and flowers are at KB door "around 1:00PM"
- PF and baby are at Walmart 12:54 - 1:17PM
- an individual "matching PF's description" enters KB's door at 1:24PM per AA (tweets say 1:36)
If the person entering KB's door at 1:24PM is PF, and he already had the baby in the carrier at Walmart, and KK says the baby was in the back bedroom during the murder - then why wasn't the baby and baby carrier seen entering KB's door with PF at 1:24PM? If the person presumed to be PF did not have the baby and baby carrier, then she was left in the truck?
If KK wasn't there on 11/22, then why does she say the baby was in the back bedroom? How did the baby get there, she already left.
Per SF2, the baby arrived at the ranchette with PF a little after 2:30PM.
enelram
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Sandy, Are we sure baby was w/ him at Walmart? I hadn't heard
that but you could be right.
The pic at the credit union ATM showed an empty baby carrier,
but no baby. This led me to believe the baby was still w/ KB at home at the condo.
Also according to DaveF, only the head and top of shoulders
of PF would show on neighbor's video cue to angle of camera.
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(Ah, Klismet, we know him:
Former FBI profiler leads authorities to arrest father in Dylan Redwine case )
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