CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #47 *ARREST*

[Dave F.]

If KB has seen KK somewhere previously (a rodeo, in WP, where ever) how does she react to the poisoned/not poisoned coffee visit? Does she just think: oh yeah, this face does look familiar, guess she lives around here?

I think she had to have a good idea something was going on, but it seems kind of like KB was just barely tolerating PF and perhaps hoping he might grow up or something. I don't know how she could think anything about the poisoned coffee, because I frankly don't believe she drank coffee. She was a chai tea lover. She couldn't put two and two together when there was not a single thing about it that made any sense at all. I'm beginning to wonder if her only mistake was in saying to herself: "Oh, it's PF's crazy blonde again. I think I'll walk on the other side of the street." IMO

 

[Love Never Fails]

The latest interview by the interviewer that shall remain unnamed shockingly describes occasions well before Septemer of 2018 when KKL was seen at events where PF and KB were present. I can't draw any conclusion other than PF had ratcheted things up to where he was the master games player in his own mind, but it was a game he couldn't possibly win by his own rules of play. I have no other choice left about KKL...........she was thoroughly stupid, left all of her morals back in one of those Idaho gorges,and apparently was on campaign to completely dismantle her own life while ruining others lives, as well.
Somewhere, their train done left the track, and went so far it can never be put back on. IMO

It’s really hard for me to understand how KKL could be so stupid. Were her hormones in overdrive or something? I want to see her testify and I want the prosecution to win and to have this case tied up in a neat tidy bow. But I would also like to see what the defense will do to her simply because she needs some payback for what she did to KB. I would like for her to have a good long look in a mirror and know the horrible, selfish woman she sees is her!

I am still trying to imagine KK and PF having a discussion about murdering someone. How does that work? Is it over a cup of morning coffee on the phone coming up with ideas to take a life? Is it while they are having a romp in the hay? Talk about a mood killer for the rest of us! The two of them must have sounded like a horror movie.

I hope her ex gets custody of their kids and she is never allowed contact with them. Ever.

 

[Rockymtnmermaid]

The distance must have created an open relationship situation but the pregnancy and fiancee double-life fifteen miles away created a massive stressor on both PF and KKL. Somehow all this was going to be corrected by KB simply disappearing and the child becoming his as though the transgression never happened. This is fully why she participated in all the attempts and cleaned the crime scene. This was fully payback for her. He is just soulless and evil incarnate.

A small part of my brain still feels as though IMO, KKL played more of a role in the murder plots than she let on. I know it's been discussed, but IMO KKL could have been the one to put the bug in PF's ear about "doing away" with KB. Hence the 3 murder attempts by KKL to no avail. IMO, PF and KB had some sort of argument on Thanksgiving and PF took it in his own hands to go through with it that day. The violent way it was carried out alluded to it being very personal. Could KB said something along the lines of " Patrick, I want to go to your family's house for Thanksgiving and bring the baby so that she can have a real Thanksgiving with family." If he nixed the idea, she could have said" Why not grow a pair of ba11s and stand up to your mom for once." Maybe this went on with KB taunting him and belittling his masculinity. MOO of course, but I know smart women have a way with words and she could have pushed the button where Ma F is concerned. I don't think PF wanted to be the murder, I think KKL did or someone else who's not been named yet that he solicited. I believe that's why he called KKL with the "mess to come clean up." Because she was the one who was supposed to have carried it out and was her idea from the get go. I think she's just as evil and I hope the Judge finds Aggravating circumstances to give her the max sentence with the time comes.

 

[Dave F.]

It’s really hard for me to understand how KKL could be so stupid. Were her hormones in overdrive or something? I want to see her testify and I want the prosecution to win and to have this case tied up in a neat tidy bow. But I would also like to see what the defense will do to her simply because she needs some payback for what she did to KB. I would like for her to have a good long look in a mirror and know the horrible, selfish woman she sees is her!

I am still trying to imagine KK and PF having a discussion about murdering someone. How does that work? Is it over a cup of morning coffee on the phone coming up with ideas to take a life? Is it while they are having a romp in the hay? Talk about a mood killer for the rest of us! The two of them must have sounded like a horror movie.

I hope her ex gets custody of their kids and she is never allowed contact with them. Ever.

I think you just said it all. One day she is going to look in the mirror, realize exactly what is looking back at her. IMO

 

[missy1974]

Timeline - PART 3
(March 1, 2019 - June 24, 2019)

RSBM

Thank you so much @Tippy Lynn I haven't check here for a few days... this is so handy to have to see updates! So greatly appreciated!

 

[InvSmith]

A small part of my brain still feels as though IMO, KKL played more of a role in the murder plots than she let on. I know it's been discussed, but IMO KKL could have been the one to put the bug in PF's ear about "doing away" with KB. Hence the 3 murder attempts by KKL to no avail. IMO, PF and KB had some sort of argument on Thanksgiving and PF took it in his own hands to go through with it that day. The violent way it was carried out alluded to it being very personal. Could KB said something along the lines of " Patrick, I want to go to your family's house for Thanksgiving and bring the baby so that she can have a real Thanksgiving with family." If he nixed the idea, she could have said" Why not grow a pair of ba11s and stand up to your mom for once." Maybe this went on with KB taunting him and belittling his masculinity. MOO of course, but I know smart women have a way with words and she could have pushed the button where Ma F is concerned. I don't think PF wanted to be the murder, I think KKL did or someone else who's not been named yet that he solicited. I believe that's why he called KKL with the "mess to come clean up." Because she was the one who was supposed to have carried it out and was her idea from the get go. I think she's just as evil and I hope the Judge finds Aggravating circumstances to give her the max sentence with the time comes.

I agree. The methods and timing are all evolving like it involves multiple pieces and people. Instead of being highly organized; it is randomly sloppy. They would like to be highly organized but aren't. Real poor planning.

 

[Livelove61364]

LE found blood under the floor boards, remember?

YES! However 1.) We don't know how much blood was found under the floor boards 2.) Was it KB's, sorry, that was a TON of information to read over the course of a week? 3.) The million dollar question :How did it get there?

 

[Auntie Cipation]

YES! However 1.) We don't know how much blood was found under the floor boards 2.) Was it KB's, sorry, that was a TON of information to read over the course of a week? 3.) The million dollar question :How did it get there?

I read just today that yes, the blood in the bathroom matched KB's. I don't remember whether we've seen a similar statement about blood elsewhere in the home. But we do know that whatever LE found there, whether we as yet know about it or not, was sufficiently "incompatible with life" that LE shifted their investigation from "missing" to "presumed deceased". One possible basis for that is the volume of blood. But we don't know if there are other possible bases for it too.

 

[GordianKnot]

I don't think PF wanted to be the murder, I think KKL did or someone else who's not been named yet that he solicited. I believe that's why he called KKL with the "mess to come clean up." Because she was the one who was supposed to have carried it out and was her idea from the get go. I think she's just as evil and I hope the Judge finds Aggravating circumstances to give her the max sentence with the time comes.

SABBM:

I agree with you that PF wanted someone else to do his dirty work for him.
He's an emotional toddler, and is used to women catering to his needs.
The reason PF called KK and told her she "had a mess to clean up" is because that's what the women in his life have been doing for him since day 1.
He ran out of Wet Wipes, so he dialed 1-800-Side-Piece.

I do not think that KK wanted to be the murderer.
Had she wanted to be the one to kill KB, PF certainly provided KK with multiple opportunities to do the deed.
Each time he solicited her to do so, she could not bring herself to commit the murder.
These were PF's solicitations, not KKs.

The DA, Dan May, is not a stupid man.
The DA is clearly satisfied based on the evidence that PF is the primary bad actor and that he is the one who both solicited and carried out KB's murder.
He would not have bargained with KK if there was one shred of evidence that she was the evil "mastermind" behind KB's murder.

I don't agree that there is equivalency between KK's actions and PF's actions, i.e., that she is "just as evil" as PF for this reason:

When the moment actually arrived, KK found herself unable to carry out the murder.
She could not bring herself to wield the bat at KB.

PF had no such difficulty.
PF swung the bat without compunction or restraint.
Repeatedly.
He took batting practice at KB's head.
Knocking her teeth out.
Splattering her blood against walls, floor, ceiling, fireplace, etc.

KK cleaned up the blood that PF shed.
So in that respect, KB's blood is literally on her hands as well.
She's evil. He's evil. They're both evil.

But PF is the one who solicited her murder multiple times.
PF is the one who drained KB's life's blood from her body.

To paraphrase another poster (I think it was MassGuy) who originally said:
Take KK out of the equation entirely, and KB is still dead.
Take PF out of the equation entirely, and KB would still be alive.
I think that's absolutely true.

JMO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

And all the while, PF will be sitting there working his forlorn shy cowboy look.

 

[acutename]

YES! However 1.) We don't know how much blood was found under the floor boards 2.) Was it KB's, sorry, that was a TON of information to read over the course of a week? 3.) The million dollar question :How did it get there?

1. a lot- indicative of death
2. yes
3. head wound
because afterward, LE said "regrettably not alive"

 

[Hatch]

LOL! And I've been researching body burning and cremation, hoping no one drops dead around me! So if you're on some kinda watch list, so am I.

Keep in mind in a regular cremation the firebox is well insulated ( kiln like) and fairly small( not much air space) with a constant flame. It would be very hard to duplicate in open air what is achieved in a crematorium. Small meaning maybe 1-2 human body size. Watched a few YT videos .

 

[Livelove61364]

Snipped for brevity.

I think this highlights my personal frustration with where we are in this case. We have such a small amount of concrete evidence to consider, much of what we have has been present in the vaguest way possible leaving a wide interpretation. I realize this is likely strategy and will preserve the case, but it leaves me continually reconsidering everything.

I was looking through pics today and came across a pic taken in my childhood home right before we sold it several years ago. In the garage was a large pattern of brown spots on the ceiling, which was unpainted drywall. To quantify the size it was about 10 feet wide and 15 feet long, and had a similar amount of drops as one might think if you had opened a soda can after shaking it.

I thought back to why that pic was taken and recalled standing with my wife of 20 years recalling an event in my teens, (so roughly 25 years prior to the picture date.) Where I had impatiently used a utility knife incorrectly and sliced my hand from the base of my thumbnail to almost where my thumb joint joins the wrist. She could not believe the amount of blood and that was evident 25 years later (note to all, I did have the garage painted to clean it up prior to sale.)

The thing is, it was not life threatening and in fact not even debilitating. Just a few weeks in a cast and stitches I was back to my mischievous ways. Yet, to look at it after the fact one may have thought that something horrid had happened, in truth it was just me flipping my hand up and down a couple times as I registered the cut.

Anyway, to come full circle, that just reminded me of all this discussion of lots of blood. I guess, when I hear "lots of blood" I think of puddles on the ground where pints are lost, not spots scattered around "lots of the house." The way it is currently written it almost seems as lots of blood evidence means one spot in floor boards and spots in lots of other places, I just can not wait until we get a more literal description.

This is actually important due to fact that IF there was an actual head wound, those things bleed like crazy ! And take FOREVER to stop with typical blood clotting factors present. A normal few smacks in the head with a metal pipe or baseball bat that opens the skin, and blood would fly everywhere.

SABBM:

I agree with you that PF wanted someone else to do his dirty work for him.
He's an emotional toddler, and is used to women catering to his needs.
The reason PF called KK and told her she "had a mess to clean up" is because that's what the women in his life have been doing for him since day 1.
He ran out of Wet Wipes, so he dialed 1-800-Side-Piece.

I do not think that KK wanted to be the murderer.
Had she wanted to be the one to kill KB, PF certainly provided KK with multiple opportunities to do the deed.
He solicited KK to murder KB multiple times.
Each time, she could not bring herself to commit the murder.
These were PF's solicitations, not KKs.

The DA, Dan May, is not a stupid man.
The DA is clearly satisfied based on the evidence that PF is the primary bad actor and that he is the one who both solicited and carried out KB's murder.
He would not have bargained with KK if there was one shred of evidence that she was the evil "mastermind" behind KB's murder.

I don't agree that there is equivalency between KK's actions and PF's actions, i.e., that she is "just as evil" as PF for this reason:

When the moment actually arrived, KK found herself unable to carry out the murder.
She could not bring herself to wield the bat at KB.

PF had no such difficulty.
PF swung the bat without compunction or restraint.
Repeatedly.
He took batting practice at KB's head.
Knocking her teeth out.
Splattering her blood against walls, floor, ceiling, fireplace, etc.

KK cleaned up the blood that PF shed.
So in that respect, KB's blood is literally on her hands as well.
She's evil. He's evil. They're both evil.

But PF is the one who solicited her murder multiple times.
PF is the one who drained KB's life's blood from her body.

To paraphrase another poster's logic (sorry, I can't remember who said it):
Take KK out of the equation entirely, and KB is still dead.
Take PF out of the equation entirely, and KB would still be alive.
I think that's absolutely true.

JMO.

Although I love your theory, I cannot get the pills out of my head. I don't know why I feel that they thought poisoning her would be the best way to go, but it tugs at me.

 

[ilovechili]

she picks up the keys at the ranch gate too.... no actual contact with PF... jut goes to the gate.

I know, really odd. As if wanting to show no contact on one side or the other. Yet SF's allegedly has knowledge and can respond to when KK was in town. What is the point to the metal rod, the keys, etc. always left at and picked up by KK at the gate? So strange...

 

[MemPat]

SABBM:

I agree with you that PF wanted someone else to do his dirty work for him.
He's an emotional toddler, and is used to women catering to his needs.
The reason PF called KK and told her she "had a mess to clean up" is because that's what the women in his life have been doing for him since day 1.
He ran out of Wet Wipes, so he dialed 1-800-Side-Piece.

I do not think that KK wanted to be the murderer.
Had she wanted to be the one to kill KB, PF certainly provided KK with multiple opportunities to do the deed.
Each time he solicited her to do so, she could not bring herself to commit the murder.
These were PF's solicitations, not KKs.

The DA, Dan May, is not a stupid man.
The DA is clearly satisfied based on the evidence that PF is the primary bad actor and that he is the one who both solicited and carried out KB's murder.
He would not have bargained with KK if there was one shred of evidence that she was the evil "mastermind" behind KB's murder.

I don't agree that there is equivalency between KK's actions and PF's actions, i.e., that she is "just as evil" as PF for this reason:

When the moment actually arrived, KK found herself unable to carry out the murder.
She could not bring herself to wield the bat at KB.

PF had no such difficulty.
PF swung the bat without compunction or restraint.
Repeatedly.
He took batting practice at KB's head.
Knocking her teeth out.
Splattering her blood against walls, floor, ceiling, fireplace, etc.

KK cleaned up the blood that PF shed.
So in that respect, KB's blood is literally on her hands as well.
She's evil. He's evil. They're both evil.

But PF is the one who solicited her murder multiple times.
PF is the one who drained KB's life's blood from her body.

To paraphrase another poster's logic (sorry, I can't remember who said it):
Take KK out of the equation entirely, and KB is still dead.
Take PF out of the equation entirely, and KB would still be alive.
I think that's absolutely true.

JMO.

Well said, GK. I don't think it can get any more clear.

 

[Hatch]

SABBM:

I agree with you that PF wanted someone else to do his dirty work for him.
He's an emotional toddler, and is used to women catering to his needs.
The reason PF called KK and told her she "had a mess to clean up" is because that's what the women in his life have been doing for him since day 1.
He ran out of Wet Wipes, so he dialed 1-800-Side-Piece.

I do not think that KK wanted to be the murderer.
Had she wanted to be the one to kill KB, PF certainly provided KK with multiple opportunities to do the deed.
Each time he solicited her to do so, she could not bring herself to commit the murder.
These were PF's solicitations, not KKs.

The DA, Dan May, is not a stupid man.
The DA is clearly satisfied based on the evidence that PF is the primary bad actor and that he is the one who both solicited and carried out KB's murder.
He would not have bargained with KK if there was one shred of evidence that she was the evil "mastermind" behind KB's murder.

I don't agree that there is equivalency between KK's actions and PF's actions, i.e., that she is "just as evil" as PF for this reason:

When the moment actually arrived, KK found herself unable to carry out the murder.
She could not bring herself to wield the bat at KB.

PF had no such difficulty.
PF swung the bat without compunction or restraint.
Repeatedly.
He took batting practice at KB's head.
Knocking her teeth out.
Splattering her blood against walls, floor, ceiling, fireplace, etc.

KK cleaned up the blood that PF shed.
So in that respect, KB's blood is literally on her hands as well.
She's evil. He's evil. They're both evil.

But PF is the one who solicited her murder multiple times.
PF is the one who drained KB's life's blood from her body.

To paraphrase another poster's logic (sorry, I can't remember who said it):
Take KK out of the equation entirely, and KB is still dead.
Take PF out of the equation entirely, and KB would still be alive.
I think that's absolutely true.

JMO.

I dialed the 1-800 - side piece number is was busy ! Old Love burns hottest but not for very long.

 

[MassGuy]

Although I love your theory, I cannot get the pills out of my head. I don't know why I feel that they thought poisoning her would be the best way to go, but it tugs at me.

I don’t think KK ever went through with the pill method.

PF was allegedly angry when she failed, and she apologized to him.

This plot would have required additional steps had she actually gone through with it, as it’s not like she would just drop dead.

He’d have to help it along, and perhaps stage the scene with a suicide note or something.

That didn’t happen.

The following solicitation plots, involved bludgeoning her to death.

The account provided by KK, which her deal is contingent upon, is supported by evidence.

She lies, she pays.

 

[Hatch]

I know, really odd. As if wanting to show no contact on one side or the other. Yet SF's allegedly has knowledge and can respond to when KK was in town. What is the point to the metal rod, the keys, etc. always left at and picked up by KK at the gate? So strange...

Makes ya wonder what Frazee solicited KB's murder thru what Frazee?

 

[ilovechili]

Makes ya wonder what Frazee solicited KB's murder thru what Frazee?

Certainly not out of the question... It makes as much or more sense than anything else...

 

[k-mac]

dbm
thought better of it.