CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #47 *ARREST*

[Kapua]

This is one of the reasons that I question the solicitation stories, told by KK to M. Until I see proof, like texts, where it's discussed, in writing, I chose not to believe it. They (KK & PF) may have had conversations about ways to "get rid of" Kelsey and drugs may have been brought up (a nurse might think of that, due to her line of work), but I think this first (???) trip to Kelsey's, with the coffee, was purely for KK to check out her perceived competition. I think the burner phone and play date stuff were all her ideas. While I still believe the evidence points to PF being Kelsey's killer, it was KK who drove thousands of miles, in just a couple of months (two trips just a week apart) to stalk and come close to bludgeoning Kelsey, herself. She had her own motivations.

Yes, she did. And KKL totally set herself up for LE (and public) scrutiny by making those trips and cleaning up the crime scene. Unbelievably stupid. I've probably used the word "stupid" 10,000 times since this horrible, tragic, avoidable crime occurred, but really. At what point do you say to yourself, "This could get me in a whole lot of trouble?" Do you really think LE is not going to find you and start asking questions? MOO

 

[Gardener1850]

Kelsey Berreth murder case: Patrick Frazee wants wrongful death suit dismissed

March 4, 2019 Denver Post

[...]
Patrick Frazee, 32, filed a motion in Teller County District Court on Friday asking a judge to deny a claim by Berreth’s parents, Cheryl-Lee Ellen Berrethand Darrell Lynn Berreth, seeking custody of 1-year-old Kaylee.

The motion contests a second amended complaint by the Berreths seeking custody of their granddaughter. The first was made by Marcie McMinimee, a special conservator for Kaylee, the lawsuit filed by Colorado Springs attorney Jennifer Stock says.

Colorado’s wrongful death statute clearly states that the Berreths have no standing to make a legal claim based on the alleged wrongful death of Kelsey Berreth, the motion says.

“Only her living and surviving child, KF (Kaylee Frazee), has standing to bring a wrongful death claim,” it says. “In the original complaint, plaintiffs pled that the outrageous conduct of Mr. Frazee was the alleged killing and death of their daughter at his hands … But plaintiff’s attempt to save the claim fail and it must be dismissed.”
[...]
“Patrick Frazee is entitled to dismissal because Kelsey Berreth has a daughter, which, in fact, precludes Kelsey Berreth’s parents from bringing a wrongful death claim against him. And Colorado law does not permit more than one civil suit for the death of one person,” the motion says.

A Teller County judge has repeatedly determined that the Berreths should retain temporary custody of Kaylee.

What's up with PF suddenly trying to claim Baby K has his last name? Hasn't it been written as K. Berreth in every other official document so far?

(PS: If PF thinks she is going to want his last name when she grows up after he murdered her mother, he is beyond delusional. I hope she already has her mom's surname on her birth certificate to save her the trouble of having to have her name legally changed. MOO.)

 

[enelram]

It just makes no sense to violently kill someone and leave all that evidence when they had this other plan. It also makes no sense to tell LE about these failed plans if you didn't put anything in the coffee. Why tell anything? Attention? Certainly not guilt.

Why? Well if she's a Histrionic Personality as I suspect,
yes she gave all that info for 1) attention, 2) Shock Value 3)
Dramatization.
And it worked, didn't it? The headlines after her statements
and his arrest affidavit seemed honed in on 3 solicitations,
the affair, and she became an overnight celebrity, in her mind.
I'll bet she had LE eating out of her hand with all that she was feeding them. moo.

 

[Elley Mae]

This is one of the reasons that I question the solicitation stories, told by KK to M. Until I see proof, like texts, where it's discussed, in writing, I choose not to believe it. They (KK & PF) may have had conversations about ways to "get rid of" Kelsey and drugs may have been brought up (a nurse might think of that, due to her line of work), but I think this first (???) trip to Kelsey's, with the coffee, was purely for KK to check out her perceived competition. I think the burner phone and play date stuff were all her ideas. While I still believe the evidence points to PF being Kelsey's killer, it was KK who drove thousands of miles, in just a couple of months (two trips just a week apart) to stalk and come close to bludgeoning Kelsey, herself. She had her own motivations.

I posted a link last thread, in the interview with Slater? Kk said it was her idea to put “poison” the coffee. Yet she pretents to be fearful of pf.
I agree she wanted to check out Kelsey, competition or to size her up.

The audacity and nerve of her to do that is frightening.

 

[Artis]

Just to clarify, the murder was said to have taken place in the living room, and Frazee put the baby in a playpen in the back bedroom, according to the affidavit.

It was Slater's testimony that said back office/bedroom:

The murder, according to Kenney (through Frazee), happened in a back office/second bedroom, Slater said. When Kenney went back to Frazee’s home, Slater says Frazee gave Kenney the cell phone. Kenney took Berreth’s purse & took it. @KOAA

Thread by @SamKraemerTV: "We’ve made it to Cripple Creek. The preliminary hearing for State of Colorado vs. Patrick Frazee starts in a little under 90 minutes. I’ll t […]" #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney #ParrickFrazee

I can understand these discrepancies because there's so much info. I would guess that at trial they're more careful, checking documents rather than relying on memory.

 

[Hatch]

Time ago I did understand, PF used a ladder to climb up with the tote (and wondered about his strength/power) and he used the tractor, to bring the tote down from above. - What is the ladder-thingi? When did he use it?

IMO he used the front loader attachment to raise the tote up to top of the hay stack then he would need to climb a ladder to remove it from the forks and get it situated on the hay. Reverse to get it down. Totally makes sense that is how he most likely did it. No way could he carry a tote with 100+ lbs of uneven weight while climbing a ladder.

 

[Dave F.]

Yes, she did. And KKL totally set herself up for LE (and public) scrutiny by making those trips and cleaning up the crime scene. Unbelievably stupid. I've probably used the word "stupid" 10,000 times since this horrible, tragic, avoidable crime occurred, but really. At what point do you say to yourself, "This could get me in a whole lot of trouble?" Do you really think LE is not going to find you and start asking questions? MOO

You are completely right about how KKL is going to present to the jury, but it's going to be PF on trial, not KKL. The threshold of proof for solicitation is lower than that for Murder In The First Degree, and her degree of participation doesn't affect his charge. The important elements are that he asked her to commit a murder, and that the murder was later committed. They are two separate elements of the one crime, and do not have to mesh nicely together. IMO

 

[UnicornDragon]

The question is, whether the ladder would keep the weight of 200 lbs plus 110 lbs (for example) off on each of it's rungs?

Sure, the right ladder can handle some pretty significant weights.

Granted, I have no clue how much, if any, of that story is accurate. Just saying, it's possible.

 

[MsBetsy]

It was Slater's testimony that said back office/bedroom:

The murder, according to Kenney (through Frazee), happened in a back office/second bedroom, Slater said. When Kenney went back to Frazee’s home, Slater says Frazee gave Kenney the cell phone. Kenney took Berreth’s purse & took it. @KOAA

Thread by @SamKraemerTV: "We’ve made it to Cripple Creek. The preliminary hearing for State of Colorado vs. Patrick Frazee starts in a little under 90 minutes. I’ll t […]" #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney #ParrickFrazee

I can understand these discrepancies because there's so much info. I would guess that at trial they're more careful, checking documents rather than relying on memory.

Yes, but I thought it was later reported that there were some mistakes in reporting some of the testimony. I would think that the affidavit, being a legal document, would be checked for mistakes before releasing it. Imo

 

[Kapua]

Sure, the right ladder can handle some pretty significant weights.

Granted, I have no clue how much, if any, of that story is accurate. Just saying, it's possible.

I had to Google:
What are Ladder Duty Ratings and Ladder Load Capacities? - Sunset Ladder & Scaffold Blog

 

[SandyQLS]

I'm thinking it's the unknown DNA from the sink.
MOO

During the Defense questioning of CBI Agent Slater toward the end of the Prelim 2/19/19:

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV3m3 minutes ago
Defense points out the DNA of another male was found in Kelsey’s sink. Tests revealed it wasn’t that of Patrick Frazee. @KOAA

And the AA item #28 unknown male DNA and unknown female DNA from bathroom, PF excluded

*

When the Defense questioned Slater, they took the risk that he would answer that the DNA has been identified - but it has not. There was enough material to have developed the DNA profiles to exclude PF's profile. By the 2/19 Prelim, they had long since also had the DNA profiles of CB1 and CB2, as well as any officers who had been in the townhome would have theirs on file. It is less clear when they acquired KK's DNA. CBI Agent Slater would have stated whose DNA it was if they knew IMO because it would immediately defeat the Defense using the unknown male DNA as reasonable doubt.

So I don't think it is that DNA. This article link suggests swabbing a gun as an example of consumptive DNA testing.

Consumptive Forensic DNA Testing •

 

[Kapua]

Yes, but I thought it was later reported that there were some mistakes in reporting some of the testimony. I would think that the affidavit, being a legal document, would be checked for mistakes before releasing it. Imo

There was at least one mistake on the affidavit; the date on which KKL and CL divorced (according to court records).

 

[MsBetsy]

Sure, the right ladder can handle some pretty significant weights.

Granted, I have no clue how much, if any, of that story is accurate. Just saying, it's possible.

I can't imagine lifting something that heavy while climbing a ladder and keeping your balance without either PF or the tote falling to the ground. Or both. Imo

 

[Dave F.]

What's up with PF suddenly trying to claim Baby K has his last name? Hasn't it been written as K. Berreth in every other official document so far?

(PS: If PF thinks she is going to want his last name when she grows up after he murdered her mother, he is beyond delusional. I hope she already has her mom's surname on her birth certificate to save her the trouble of having to have her name legally changed. MOO.)

Colorado has very strict laws about publishing the name of a minor mentioned in a criminal case. Once a news report is picked up by any source that is out of state, few people honor that very basic child protection, including those that will simply make up a truth for the click value.
Changing a name on a birth certificate in Colorado was once impossible, but I personally know of a very recent surname change case that cost one phone call and $20 in fees (total). It can be done any time, by the individual or the legal guardian.

 

[PommyMommy]

It was Slater's testimony that said back office/bedroom:

The murder, according to Kenney (through Frazee), happened in a back office/second bedroom, Slater said. When Kenney went back to Frazee’s home, Slater says Frazee gave Kenney the cell phone. Kenney took Berreth’s purse & took it. @KOAA

Thread by @SamKraemerTV: "We’ve made it to Cripple Creek. The preliminary hearing for State of Colorado vs. Patrick Frazee starts in a little under 90 minutes. I’ll t […]" #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney #ParrickFrazee

I can understand these discrepancies because there's so much info. I would guess that at trial they're more careful, checking documents rather than relying on memory.

Please see original and corrected tweet including timestamps. (BBM)

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
The murder, according to Kenney (through Frazee), happened in a back office/second bedroom, Slater said. When Kenney went back to Frazee’s home, Slater says Frazee gave Kenney the cell phone. Kenney took Berreth’s purse & took it. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee
3:12 PM - 19 Feb 2019

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Prosecutors are saying Kaylee was in the back room while the murder happened. They say Kelsey was killed in the living room. Blame the courtroom acoustics. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #ParrickFrazee #KrystalKenney
6:20 PM - 19 Feb 2019

 

[MsBetsy]

Delete. Already answered.

 

[ilovechili]

I posted a link last thread, in the interview with Slater? Kk said it was her idea to put “poison” the coffee. Yet she pretents to be fearful of pf.
I agree she wanted to check out Kelsey, competition or to size her up.

The audacity and nerve of her to do that is frightening.

She is not scared of him. By her own account, right in his presence, she refused to take the body with her. If there was a time to be scared that he would react, that would be it. She was 800 miles away allegedly when he told her to come clean up with another man living in her own home. She had a friend who worked for attorneys. She had family. Scared? No way.

She was like any jealous woman sizing Kelsey up as you said, and probably contributed to PF's words to her at the very least, contributing back and agreeing and knocking KB. You know a man who even is upset with his wife, fiance, baby mama and says terrible things about her, it will still bother certain types of women that that man is that obsessed with that other woman... my opinion anyhow... Then she is 800 miles away and knows he sees her to pick up baby... And she wonders if there is any relationship... Of any kind.... Just my own opinion....

 

[MsBetsy]

Please see original and corrected tweet including timestamps. (BBM)

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
The murder, according to Kenney (through Frazee), happened in a back office/second bedroom, Slater said. When Kenney went back to Frazee’s home, Slater says Frazee gave Kenney the cell phone. Kenney took Berreth’s purse & took it. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee
3:12 PM - 19 Feb 2019

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Prosecutors are saying Kaylee was in the back room while the murder happened. They say Kelsey was killed in the living room. Blame the courtroom acoustics. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #ParrickFrazee #KrystalKenney
6:20 PM - 19 Feb 2019

Thanks Pommy. I guess I'll delete my other post. I thought it had been corrected, but I didn't know where to find it.
In the last thread, some posters had not seen the amended document for the wrongful death suit. There is a list of all the things that Frazee said to CB to misguide her and stall the investigation. Would that be something you can find easily and post again?

 

[Dave F.]

During the Defense questioning of CBI Agent Slater toward the end of the Prelim 2/19/19:

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV3m3 minutes ago
Defense points out the DNA of another male was found in Kelsey’s sink. Tests revealed it wasn’t that of Patrick Frazee. @KOAA

And the AA item #28 unknown male DNA and unknown female DNA from bathroom, PF excluded

*

When the Defense questioned Slater, they took the risk that he would answer that the DNA has been identified - but it has not. There was enough material to have developed the DNA profiles to exclude PF's profile. By the 2/19 Prelim, they had long since also had the DNA profiles of CB1 and CB2, as well as any officers who had been in the townhome would have theirs on file. It is less clear when they acquired KK's DNA. CBI Agent Slater would have stated whose DNA it was if they knew IMO because it would immediately defeat the Defense using the unknown male DNA as reasonable doubt.

So I don't think it is that DNA. This article link suggests swabbing a gun as an example of consumptive DNA testing.

Consumptive Forensic DNA Testing •

Slater said they developed DNA profiles of those people. He never said anything even close to claiming they had matched those profiles to search samples, or eliminated matches. In defense cross examination, he stated that the blood turned up in the search had not yet been DNA tested, but he staked his 35 year career reputation on it being KB's when it was tested.
I'm assuming that he developed DNA profiles of the rest of B's samples by standard swab. We know LE did for PF. As I wondered in an earlier post, did they already have a DNA profile of KB from a pilot's physical or some other source? IMO

 

[GordianKnot]

Yes, she did. And KKL totally set herself up for LE (and public) scrutiny by making those trips and cleaning up the crime scene. Unbelievably stupid. I've probably used the word "stupid" 10,000 times since this horrible, tragic, avoidable crime occurred, but really. At what point do you say to yourself, "This could get me in a whole lot of trouble?" Do you really think LE is not going to find you and start asking questions? MOO

Hey, Pua, I know just what you mean re: the word "stupid" playing like a looped track in your head. It starts to feel redundant, doesn't it? But the word stupid is so apropos!

I don't know if this helps, but I've been substituting a lot of synonymous words, including the following, to describe both PF and now KK, who, not to be outdone by PF, has proven herself to be every bit his intellectual match:

• moronic
• imbecilic
• idiotic
• dim-witted
• brainless
• asinine

There are probably other synonyms we could use to describe them both, but just thought I'd throw those out there as possible alternatives to the stale ole' "stupid" tag if you find yourself growing weary of hearing yourself say it.

Of course, when all else fails, we can always simply fall back on the trusty stand-bys:

"This is PF we're talking about here."
"This is KK we're talking about here."

No other explanation needed as those sentences are understood to be code for:
"He/she is the dumbest, most stupid, asinine, brainless, imbecilic moron to ever walk the face of the planet."

JMO.