CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #48 *ARREST*

[travelbug]

I also thought he would have had less to clean and move around if he had done the deed when they were checking the cows. Although if he had killed her out in the woods, he would have had a harder time telling his story of her heading out, seems he was fixated on this scenario from the beginning. Also, he would have been out there with her, so how does he explain that. I doubt she checked cows without him.

I would be willing to bet that he had that planned, but she refused to get out of the car and leave their daughter unattended. Obviously, he couldn't have blood stains in his vehicle so he changed the plan. I don't believe that PF held the most rage for KB. I believe that both SF and KK is where the real hatred came from. KB had "stolen" PF from both of them. jmho

 

[Seattle1]

So you're saying they maybe made some mistakes? LOL.
On a serious note, I actually do not find anything suspicious about the note they found giving others permission to care for the child and/or give health care. Every parent should have that. That KB was not on the list is not suspicious since KB would not need permission if she showed up.

I agree. But then if your reason for having drafted a list is just being a prudent parent, I'd think they would have one joint agreement of consent making it clear that both parents consent to Joe, Joe2, and Joe3 acting on behalf of parents. (I also recognize consent here was drafted when KB not available).

MOO

 

[SandyQLS]

@Warwick7 I would of been dialing the phone before they left the bank.

Which is a violation of the law. PF is a customer inquiring about his own account. No bank employee can discuss his account unless the police already brought a SW, and there was no SW for PF's private bank activity as of Dec 5. That bank manager should be reported to the state banking commission and fired. JMO

 

[Hatfield]

That KB and/or PF mentioned her gun on 11/22, and the fact that KK says PF told her she HAD to take the gun, and that LE seems very interested in the gun, all lead me to believe that her gun was indeed involved some how. I am wondering if KK's comment that she felt she was being "set up" isn't perhaps correct (at least to a degree). PF was probably hoping he would never be suspected or arrested, but that he if he was, he was laying the ground work for plan b - blame it all on KK. I am also thinking that the "lump" KK saw burning was NOT KB's body at all.

Good points.

It would not surprise me if we learn he did shoot KB and that could be why it was so important to get rid of the guns and burn or get rid of the body. A bat could have been used too in order to finish her off after a single shot or something along those lines.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I keep coming back to the medications for PF the night before the murder. KB's out there working with the livestock until all hours and then runs into town and back out to the ranch (not a close thing) to bring him medication. Kelsey was such a good person. Keeping up her end of the "partnership" with the overnight livestock care (did Patrick need an onerous task done at the livestock location and wanted one more work shift out of Kelsey? did Patrick think he could off her at the remote livestock location and chickened out?), taking care of Patrick's GI issues--no doubt brought on by his murderous intentions--then playing along with 'what's this scent.' I wonder if she was amazed that Patrick would partake in such a frivolous activity and was pleased with the kinda normal couple interaction right before he knocked her teeth out.

bbm
Today's news: CW had sex with his wife right before he strangled her ....

 

[skycountry]

Great points. I actually hope some of those "friends" and "neighbors" read here. I think a few truly are well intentioned (not all) and need to realize they were shown one "face" by him and not his true character.

As to exploding in a courtroom, I have seen it more than once in my life. That type it just takes the right trigger and often it is not much. Women particularly can get their goat if they think little of women or feel they were dominated by one--if you know someone like that and are against them in a case, make sure to tell your attorney that and yes, hire a female. The same type will also often go off at the judge or get very out of order--because they do not like ANYONE telling them what to do.

I don't know that any of his friends are on here, but there are some PF fans here, they have a right to defend him, but how do you defend the indefensible?

I would be willing to bet that he had that planned, but she refused to get out of the car and leave their daughter unattended. Obviously, he couldn't have blood stains in his vehicle so he changed the plan. I don't believe that PF held the most rage for KB. I believe that both SF and KK is where the real hatred came from. KB had "stolen" PF from both of them. jmho

PF had his own rage, you don't bludgeon someone to death without feeling some kind of hatred/rage.

 

[PrairieWind]

Good points.

It would not surprise me if we learn he did shoot KB and that could be why it was so important to get rid of the guns and burn or get rid of the body. A bat could have been used too in order to finish her off after a single shot or something along those lines.

What I am actually thinking is that perhaps KB's remains do turn up, in the landfill or, more likely, in some other location. Those remains are not burned and her head is not smashed but instead has a clear bullet hole in it. Suddenly KK's cooperation is virtually useless because it doesn't match the most critical issues. And who ended up with the gun? It is interesting that PF clearly wanted KK to go with him to get the tote from the Nash ranch and stay and attend the burning, but she never actually saw the body.

 

[jewelsmac]

I have pondered that night before as well. I can't imagine what issue with the cattle in the wee hours that there could have been that he needed KB to help him with. I really think maybe he had something planned to kill her out there, but something went wrong and he couldn't do it. Then had to improvise the next day.

I agree

 

[ilovechili]

That KB and/or PF mentioned her gun on 11/22, and the fact that KK says PF told her she HAD to take the gun, and that LE seems very interested in the gun, all lead me to believe that her gun was indeed involved some how. I am wondering if KK's comment that she felt she was being "set up" isn't perhaps correct (at least to a degree). PF was probably hoping he would never be suspected or arrested, but that he if he was, he was laying the ground work for plan b - blame it all on KK. I am also thinking that the "lump" KK saw burning was NOT KB's body at all.

I have thought of this but it seems like if this was the case, PF would have immediately or at some point before KK made her deal try to bring up this crazy gf/side piece of his and suggest she did it and they had the wrong person... Who knows though because nothing makes sense... I do believe she would like it to look as if she was set up or coerced...

I think too the gun is involved and I still wonder about the other gun as well.

One of the biggest things I am not convinced of is that she was burned in that fire, as you said. I think if there is one thing that may be a lie by one or both is what happened to the body... I agree on that one.

All just speculation and jmo.

 

[Mom24]

What I am actually thinking is that perhaps KB's remains do turn up, in the landfill or, more likely, in some other location. Those remains are not burned and her head is not smashed but instead has clear bullet hole in it. Suddenly KK's cooperation is virtually useless because it doesn't match the most critical issues. And who ended up with the gun? It is interesting that PF clearly wanted KK to go with him to get the tote from the Nash ranch and stay and attend the burning, but she never actually saw the body.

Aha, which is why he gave the gun to KK to dispose of. That would make sense. But then wouldn't PF have wanted KB's body to be found?

 

[jewelsmac]

Who goes through the effort to put a tooth in an envelope from a crime to keep? It is like the opposite of secrets. Tell everyone, ensure you are on camera, use an expired license plate, make sure to solicit multiple times, get the solicited to clean the crime scene, talk to the teller at the bank, tell her everything, lie about everything, get caught lying, write out a note of who can watch your child that you have no legal guardianship, leave off victim that is the guardian, sell victim's gun, use her phone, take it to a gorge, leave with it, burn in yard instead, on and on.

Pretty much on target. Also after you kill the person, take their cell phone but keep it with you a couple of days..and travel all over hither and yon so it can be tracked that the phone is with you and not with the “missing” person

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I don't think it was "diversionary" as much as it was a defense tactic. PF knew he would soon be investigated, and I believe they even used the words with the banker that they were building a "timeline." MOO

Someone of LE told him to use the term?

 

[Hatfield]

As to exploding in a courtroom, I have seen it more than once in my life. That type it just takes the right trigger and often it is not much. Women particularly can get their goat if they think little of women or feel they were dominated by one--if you know someone like that and are against them in a case, make sure to tell your attorney that and yes, hire a female. The same type will also often go off at the judge or get very out of order--because they do not like ANYONE telling them what to do.

So true.

In the Heather Elvis case trial of SM (not the latest trial of TM), the judge himself in his case was bias against women. He has a recorded history of some previous incidents in the courtroom, and during SM's trial, it was so blatant and scary he was like that.

Near the end of SM trial during the female prosecution's closing arguments, he cut her off and didnt let her finish her closing arguments because she was taking a little too long. I was shocked and it was very upsetting to watch.

 

[skycountry]

What I am actually thinking is that perhaps KB's remains do turn up, in the landfill or, more likely, in some other location. Those remains are not burned and her head is not smashed but instead has clear bullet hole in it. Suddenly KK's cooperation is virtually useless because it doesn't match the most critical issues. And who ended up with the gun? It is interesting that PF clearly wanted KK to go with him to get the tote from the Nash ranch and stay and attend the burning, but she never actually saw the body.

Anything is possible, I think something was decided late on 11/22 and implemented on 11/23, with PF phone records showing he travelled to the Guffey area. I know the Nash ranch is in that direction, but so is his "father figure" RS, who was intent on helping PF out in the weeks following KB's disappearance.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It seems to me that PF's friends did not know him all that well, not one of his clients/friends/roping buddies knew that he was in a relationship with two women at the same time.

Don't know, if they don't know. Men always hold together.

 

[MassGuy]

A preview of tonight’s Dateline by my favorite reporter in the whole world.


'He played head games': Ex-girlfriend of Patrick Frazee breaks her silence and reveals accused killer would 'build her up then slam her down' while he spun a 'confusing web of lies'

Ex-girlfriend of Patrick Frazee breaks her silence and reveals accused killer played head games | Daily Mail Online

 

[24Brix]

I wondered what the dog that signaled next to her car was hitting on. Seems the scent they pick up on can be detected by them even if the body is there for less than 2 minutes. So was the hit by the dog at the car from KK's trash bags, or from the tote that PF set there before putting it in his truck?

Border Collies are used as cadaver dogs, so maybe PF did participate in training some cadaver dogs. All jmo

The CSI death dogs: Sniffing out the truth behind the crime-scene

I found it interesting (though I shouldn’t have been surprised) that the vehicle searches, including the hit by the cadaver dog, took place at the WPPD impound lot, not at the condo. (See page 6 of SW-111, linked below.) Until then, I presumed that the dog was hitting on a spot on the ground near the rear bumper of the car at the condo. But apparently the hit was on the vehicle itself.

IMO, we know from KKL’s testimony that he put her body in the black tote and took her to the N ranch. But we don’t know with certainty what vehicle was used for that or if her body was moved directly from the condo to the tote. All we have are the pings for movements and KKL testimony which is not an eye witness account. I wonder if her car might play a more important role in the removal of her body than we currently realize?

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...erest/2018CR330/002/18-111 Search Warrant.pdf

 

[lindaromas]

The problem is that LE put it in the search warrant affidavit, thus leading the judge to believe it was related. By itself, it wont be enough for the defense to challenge the warrant or exclude evidence (other than any Wizard of Oz recordings seized) but it likely will result in a verbal admonishment from the judge. And, if the defense can poke holes in other things in the SW affidavit, then there could be a problem. LE should NOT have included that for the warrant. That is just sloppy work.

I think they are looking for a recently played video of the Wizard of Oz at the Franch to rule in or out the connection. JMO

 

[PrairieWind]

Aha, which is why he gave the gun to KK to dispose of. That would make sense. But then wouldn't PF have wanted KB's body to be found?

Plan A would be her body is not found and he is not charged. Now that he is charged and sees the extent of KK's betrayal, the location of the body is perhaps his ace in the hole. He leaks the location of her unburned, bullet riddled body on the eve of trial.

 

[lindaromas]

The teeth are the new cinnamon rolls.

Traces of cinnamon on the teeth?