CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #49 *ARREST*

[Hatfield]

1. It was the neighbor's camera, not KB's. It is not set to capture activities at KB's condo.
2. KKL is 5'3". She may not have triggered the motion sensor due to her stature.
3. KKL said that she parked her car at the Community Center and walked over - she may have approached the condo from the rear and stepped over that low wall in the back to get to her door (see the pics of KB's condo.)
4. If there were pics, they would have been from when she drove over and took the trash to her borrowed vehicle, as you mention. Perhaps she was aware of the camera, or perhaps she parked in a different way that PF normally did. MOO

Good points in 3 and 4. The car parking may have been the trigger for the neighbors camera and that could explain lack of KB coverage.

 

[LittleBitty]

My guess is now it’s not so much a “cellphone ping” case as it is a CCTV case. They are utilizing cameras all over. Which is why the defense “needs” more time to go thru shiitake mushrooms and fudruckers. (I’m cursing btw y’all just don’t know it!) without a body they are relying on cameras around town to back up their case.

 

[Irmese]

There was a map done way back in the early threads IIRC, but with all the info overload lately, I couldn't even begin to point you in the right direction, but there was one.

I've been looking at Google Maps, so I have a better idea of where things are and KB's and PF's movements now. TY.

 

[ilovechili]

Good points in 3 and 4. The car parking may have been the trigger for the neighbors camera and that could explain lack of KB coverage.

Trying to stay within TOS here but depending on who you listen to and where you read, there is allegedly video of KK on the 24th and that comes from the preliminary hearing. She, however, was not the point of the preliminary. He was.

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't think so, because then at 4:24 and 4:37 he makes calls from KB's home to SF and KK. I think he left, went home and had dinner, and then came back at 3:36 and killed KB.

I think he killed her around 2:00 in the afternoon. It had to be sometime between 1:24 when he was seen on camera, and 3:36, the next time he was seen at her home. At that time he calls his mom and KK, and begins his "scheme" to lead everyone to believe KB is still alive. From that point on the phones were travelling together, and there is no communication from Kelsey after her last text, which was the one about the pecans, at around 12:44. Imo

 

[MassGuy]

I think he killed her around 2:00 in the afternoon. It had to be sometime between 1:24 when he was seen on camera, and 3:36, the next time he was seen at her home. At that time he calls his mom and KK, and begins his "scheme" to lead everyone to believe KB is still alive. From that point on the phones were travelling together, and there is no communication from Kelsey after her last text, which was the one about the pecans, at around 12:44. Imo

Absolutely. Her time of death can be narrowed down to a two hour window on Thanksgiving Day.

Logically, you can narrow it down to a smaller window (time to initiate “game” and cursory blood cleanup), but it doesn’t really matter.

When PF left that house with KB’s phone, she was dead.

 

[GordianKnot]

I recall that from court tweets but I did not find it in the documents. If you can find the time all 3 were seen together with the flowers, please give me a link and will add it. Thanks.

Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing

From above:

A still frame from the surveillance camera showed Frazee, Berreth as well as the flowers that she picked up from the Safeway store in front of her door around 1 p.m. on Nov. 22.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I don't think so, because then at 4:24 and 4:37 he makes calls from KB's home to SF and KK. I think he left, went home and had dinner, and then came back at 3:36 and killed KB.

His phone was pinging from the tower near Kelsey’s home Between 1 pm and 4:30 PM. So I’m thinking he couldn’t have gone back to the ranch. Unless he left his phone at Kelsey’s?

 

[LietKynes]

No I am sorry. You mis

No I am sorry. You understood. I said I knew “a PF” once. Not this PF. I knew someone about forty years ago who could be PFs twin as far as his psychosis. Used women at his will and I knew his mother. Very bad guy.

Apologies, I went back to edit and missed the cutoff.

As to the actual PF's enablers...this case seems to point to people in PF's life never telling him "no".
Something made him develop into what he is today.
One could also speculate that he was evil from childhood.
The whole 'nature vs nurture' bit.
Imo

 

[LittleBitty]

The FBI and TPTB can also (and should) be able to track KKL’s movements in Idaho. It would be a smart thing to do if not done already.

 

[Irmese]

I wonder what he bought at Walmart? Candles and a large plastic tote?

 

[margarita25]

You know, you're right. I agree. It would be interesting to know why CW is talking now, maybe it's for the fame? He likes the camera? Maybe he enjoys reliving it? I'm not buying that's he's found God.
If they can figure out what enticed CW to talk, they might be able to get PF to talk too.

(You’re too easy, Mom24! I was anticipating a rebuttal and hoping maybe we could get a game of ping pong going like @MassGuy and @gardener1850 JK)

 

[MassGuy]

The FBI and TPTB can also (and should) be able to track KKL’s movements in Idaho. It would be a smart thing to do if not done already.

I have no doubt that they did.

They had to vet her account, and make sure that this liar was finally telling the truth.

It will absolutely be crucial at trial, in the likely event the defense tries to point the finger in her direction.

 

[ilovechili]

Absolutely. Her time of death can be narrowed down to a two hour window on Thanksgiving Day.

Logically, you can narrow it down to a smaller window (time to initiate “game” and cursory blood cleanup), but it doesn’t really matter.

When PF left that house with KB’s phone, she was dead.

So he left with the phone and without her dead body you are stating? And what is with the white box in the back of the truck? Where oh where is the tote? I guess it could be in the box but I think the box has been described as a crate also. Bang my head against wall. Hmm.

His phone was pinging from the tower near Kelsey’s home Between 1 pm and 4:30 PM. So I’m thinking he couldn’t have gone it back to the ranch. Unless he left his phone at Kelsey’s?

That would also mean if the brother said he showed up shortly after he did at 2:30 (paraphrasing), it was false. I don't think he forgot the phone because they traveled together shortly thereafter.

 

[MassGuy]

So he left with the phone and without her dead body you are stating? And what is with the white box in the back of the truck? Where oh where is the tote? I guess it could be in the box but I think the box has been described as a crate also. Bang my head against wall. Hmm.


That would also mean if the brother said he showed up shortly after he did at 2:30 (paraphrasing), it was false. I don't think he forgot the phone because they traveled together shortly thereafter.

He certainly took her body as well. I was just pointing to the phone evidence, as it firms up the time of death.

That tote arrived empty, but left heavy.

 

[ilovechili]

I wonder what he bought at Walmart? Candles and a large plastic tote?

If so, they should have proof of both then. That would be a great thing.

 

[LietKynes]

Has this been discussed ?
The time in between KK's 'cleaning up' and the murder by PF before that.
What if some of KB's family or friends had shown up ?

Did PF just leave the house unlocked, or did KK have a duplicate key to let herself in ?

And if so.. why would KK have a house key ?
What did she tell LE about the reason she might have possessed a key to KB's home.
(Since from day one she claims to have not known about KB's existence until the first time she was asked to kill her.)
KK can't say that KB lent her a spare key.

Just sad that KK isn't locked away as well.
Although maybe that's not entirely out of the equation ?

 

[LittleBitty]

Apologies, I went back to edit and missed the cutoff.

As to the actual PF's enablers...this case seems to point to people in PF's life never telling him "no".
Something made him develop into what he is today.
One could also speculate that he was evil from childhood.
The whole 'nature vs nurture' bit.
Imo

I couldn’t begin to speculate on his behavior and what he would be classified as. I think what we could at least agree on is that he was shielded from speculation about his true nature. Which based on everything we’ve read and heard is very scary. He’s not a good guy.

 

[MassGuy]

Has this been discussed ?
The time in between KK's 'cleaning up' and the murder by PF before that.
What if some of KB's family or friends had shown up ?

Did PF just leave the house unlocked, or did KK have a duplicate key to let herself in ?

And if so.. why would KK have a house key ?
What did she tell LE about the reason she might have possessed a key to KB's home.
(Since from day one she claims to have not known about KB's existence until the first time she was asked to kill her.)
KK can't say that KB lent her a spare key.

Just sad that KK isn't locked away as well.
Although maybe that's not entirely out of the equation ?

PF apparently wasn’t concerned about KB’s family showing up. They lived some distance away.

PF had a spare key, which KK picked up from the gate at PF’s ranch.

She used it to access the house and do her cleanup.

 

[ilovechili]

Has this been discussed ?
The time in between KK's 'cleaning up' and the murder by PF before that.
What if some of KB's family or friends had shown up ?

Did PF just leave the house unlocked, or did KK have a duplicate key to let herself in ?

And if so.. why would KK have a house key ?
What did she tell LE about the reason she might have possessed a key to KB's home.
(Since from day one she claims to have not known about KB's existence until the first time she was asked to kill her.)
KK can't say that KB lent her a spare key.

Just sad that KK isn't locked away as well.
Although maybe that's not entirely out of the equation ?

I think she "claims" she got them at the gate at the ranch (the keys I mean). And yes what if someone showed up at the house all blood, etc. from the 22nd to the 24th? KK had to cover the kitchen window with towels... smh.