CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #49 *ARREST*

[ilovechili]

A few random thoughts ... Even if PF thought he knew what he was doing when killing KB (eg thought it wouldn’t be overly messy/bloody), there would be no way to completely ensure that. I would think he had to have been a mess and cleaned himself up during those two hours inside KB’s condo. Well enough that he could then show up for thanksgiving dinner at his families and not have missed spatter on himself somewhere.

I’m also wondering ... perhaps he did have an issue the night before thanksgiving with his cattle or his stomach. But do you guys suspect this ‘till 4am’ thing could have been him thinking about killing KB that night before thanksgiving instead, or at least trying to wear KB down and make her tired? But then he decided to wait until thanksgiving?

I am not even convinced about Thanksgiving dinner or when he showed. The timeline shows it was later than thought by some originally, most likely anyhow. He I would think had to have been a mess at some point though on the day of the murder.

I think the evening before is all a bit odd. If one looks at the phone records too he either misses or ignores KB's first calls. May have been sleeping, may have been busy, hard to say. They also make me wonder why she initiated the calls at that hour? I wonder if her radar was up about something and she was seeing if he answered and where he might be (or if she could discern it). Just speculation but with cheaters on some level you usually know it or suspect it. Quite a bit of time passes before she is home from getting Tums from the first phone call attempt. She also had to run out in the middle of the night with a baby in tow to both Walmart and his house and not drive a short distance... Was the gate open? Did he open it? Did she?

I do agree he may have just been trying to exhaust her. She had the baby and did the running. He could have slept the next day until noon while she was up with the baby talking to her mom and probably exhausted.

While he may have been working himself up over the murder, I just do not see him that way, he is cold. I look at that picture in Walmart and see nothing but someone who was concerned about nothing except being seen on a camera in a normal pose with a cart and a baby... Not realizing of course it looks as though that is exactly what he is doing... But I see no sweat, concern, worry... But who knows right?

imo.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

He may have just a tad more sense than CC. He has not been doing interviews to my knowledge...

However, having PF to his property night after night (the way it looks) and being seen with him and picking up the package was probably not so wise... Makes him look like simply yet another with knowledge and/or involvement... The bank? That one was brilliant...

Haha a tad. Speaking of CC I wonder what he has to say now. Will he stick to the story? Or eat that crow? Will he apologize? Or continue giving Cripple Creek a bad name,and stench?

 

[ilovechili]

See what you are saying, but how can they NOT know? Not everything, but geez. Maybe they didn’t care or thought they covered up other stuff enough.

They knew some because they wanted it to look as if KB was traveling towards Idaho... Those pings were not accidental. imo. Where they found more is by taking PF's phone and finding KK or they may never have known. At least that is how it looks as to how they found her and then could find her phone with KK's. Well up to a certain point of the trip anyhow.

The travel pings and other phones were thought about. PF seems to have missed though his more local travel with KB's phone with his in Colorado.

From what it looks like. Or he just simply had reason to feel he would never be looked at that deeply...

In that respect it looks as if KK may have a few more brain cells than PF...

 

[Irmese]

This^ is a very good post. I checked the temps in the area 11/22-24 and while it was cool enough at night, the day temps were pretty warm. This point about the smell after 2 days of a body stored in a plastic tote in a barn is one of the reasons I don't believe KK's story about burning the body at the F ranchette. To get there, they would have to drive the smelly, decomposing body at least through the town of Florissant, on a Saturday afternoon/evening! The other route has them also passing through CC and Divide. Small places yes, but there are cars, cops, stop lights - too risky with that smell.

I was thinking he moved the body the day of the murder - put it in the tote, took it to Nash ranch and put it on the haystack, them took it down two days later when KK was there and burned. Am I wrong about that?

 

[Kapua]

I'd say the odds of PF having the foresight to do that are precisely 1:1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,032.

Which is to say, he's much too stupid to think of things like that.

There's no way he adjusted the thermostat.

Dude used Wet Wipes to try to clean up a blood-soaked crime scene.

'Nuf said.

JMO.

*ETA the 32 at the end of my odds calculations. Because I wanted to be precise.

I marvel daily at his blatant stupidity and apparent belief that he could successfully avoid prosecution. I predict that the jury will not need a lot of time to return a verdict. MOO

 

[SandyQLS]

...RSBM for focus...

While he may have been working himself up over the murder, I just do not see him that way, he is cold. I look at that picture in Walmart and see nothing but someone who was concerned about nothing except being seen on a camera in a normal pose with a cart and a baby... Not realizing of course it looks as though that is exactly what he is doing... But I see no sweat, concern, worry... But who knows right?

imo.

RE: Walmart photo of PF. For me, the photo copies in SW112 are much clearer than the ones in SW111. I enlarged the photo, and I can see the whites of PF's eyes because he is looking sideways. To me, he is looking down the aisle, maybe another shopper's cart is approaching. He is not looking at the camera IMO.

 

[Noharg]

They knew some because they wanted it to look as if KB was traveling towards Idaho... Those pings were not accidental. imo. Where they found more is by taking PF's phone and finding KK or they may never have known. At least that is how it looks as to how they found her and then could find her phone with KK's. Well up to a certain point of the trip anyhow.

The travel pings and other phones were thought about. PF seems to have missed though his more local travel with KB's phone with his in Colorado.

From what it looks like. Or he just simply had reason to feel he would never be looked at that deeply...

In that respect it looks as if KK may have a few more brain cells than PF...

Yeah, I am puzzled about what PF and KK thought would happen in the long run. It seems to me they did not think but in the short run. Murder KB, clean up and dispose, spin some tale about her visiting relatives and then what? I just don’t get how they envisioned the future.
JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

KK stated PF instructed her to look for the sweater,a broken tile, and a tooth that fell in the vent. Baby toys etc.

Yes, but what I wanted to know was whether or not she said she burned the sweater along with some of the other garbage. If not, I'm hoping it will be found in the landfill.
Unless, of course, she threw it into the gorge.

 

[Kapua]

I was thinking he moved the body the day of the murder - put it in the tote, took it to Nash ranch and put it on the haystack, them took it down two days later when KK was there and burned. Am I wrong about that?

That is my understanding as well. The only thing I'm not sure about is if he put it on the haystack before or after Thanskgiving dinner at the Franchette. MOO

 

[ilovechili]

Haha a tad. Speaking of CC I wonder what he has to say now. Will he stick to the story? Or eat that crow? Will he apologize? Or continue giving Cripple Creek a bad name,and stench?

Lol I don't know but even if he does not do internet I have a feeling he has heard what people think of his Dateline statements and trashing KB. If I were him I would want to clear it up. He and his wife though were pretty staunch supporters of PF, at least in the beginning...

 

[NanZDrew]

Something that I noticed was that Kelsey's Toyota car was registered to both Patrick and Kelsey. The truck she drove was registered to Cheryl. The Corolla was a 2006 model. This was not an expensive vehicle. Why was Patrick shown as a part owner? He also owned her phone service. Now let's say that Patrick was helping to finance this car, that does not mean that he had to be shown as the owner. It really seems to me that Patrick tried to legally entwine himself in everything that Kelsey had and they were not even married. Of course his family denies that they were ever engaged. This also attests to the fact that their relationship was at least originally geared toward marriage. It definitely was not as casual as some made it to seem. What is really troubling is how he tried to own everything she owned which put her in a weak position and would have made it difficult to leave him without him taking many of her possessions. It sort of makes sense why her mother had the truck and townhouse in Cheryl's name so that he couldn't control that, too. By the way, when he went to Safeway, he took Kelsey's truck...not his. The Safeway receipt was in the floorboard showing the time (a little before 2:00) and the purchase was Tums.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...erest/2018CR330/002/18-107 Search Warrant.pdf

 

[ilovechili]

RE: Walmart photo of PF. For me, the photo copies in SW112 are much clearer than the ones in SW111. I enlarged the photo, and I can see the whites of PF's eyes because he is looking sideways. To me, he is looking down the aisle, maybe another shopper's cart is approaching. He is not looking at the camera IMO.

I will have to take a look. I do not mean he was looking directly at the camera, I mean it just looks like he is aware that is where he has to stand for it to pick him up, etc. Yah, looking directly at it would be a dead giveaway lol. Just my take on it and that of some others. Just a guess though...

 

[SandyQLS]

I was thinking he moved the body the day of the murder - put it in the tote, took it to Nash ranch and put it on the haystack, them took it down two days later when KK was there and burned. Am I wrong about that?

You are correct. That is KK's story.

The issue raised is the smell of a decomposing body, where CoD was a bloody beating, after 2 days. Putting the body in the plastic tote kept it warmer than the outdoor temp. The smell would have been horrible, strong and obvious. They put a 2-day old dead body in the open bed of a truck and drove around with it?

It's one of KK's stories that doesn't quite make good sense, yet cannot be proven or disproven.

 

[ajaylee]

Haha a tad. Speaking of CC I wonder what he has to say now. Will he stick to the story? Or eat that crow? Will he apologize? Or continue giving Cripple Creek a bad name,and stench?

My opinion? If PF gets convicted, CC will say that he was a good 'ol boy who was led astray by two wicked out-of-town women, one who didn't like the 'lifestyle' and one who was a married cheater who would drive 800 miles to chase him down for a booty call. His only real sin was being too 'nice' to the ladies.

 

[Julia966]

Something that I noticed was that Kelsey's Toyota car was registered to both Patrick and Kelsey. The truck she drove was registered to Cheryl. The Corolla was a 2006 model. This was not an expensive vehicle. Why was Patrick shown as a part owner? He also owned her phone service. Now let's say that Patrick was helping to finance this car, that does not mean that he had to be shown as the owner. It really seems to me that Patrick tried to legally entwine himself in everything that Kelsey had and they were not even married. Of course his family denies that they were ever engaged. This also attests to the fact that their relationship was at least originally geared toward marriage. It definitely was not as casual as some made it to seem. What is really troubling is how he tried to own everything she owned which put her in a weak position and would have made it difficult to leave him without him taking many of her possessions. It sort of makes sense why her mother had the truck and townhouse in Cheryl's name so that he couldn't control that, too. By the way, when he went to Safeway, he took Kelsey's truck...not his. The Safeway receipt was in the floorboard showing the time (a little before 2:00) and the purchase was Tums.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/002/18-107 Search Warrant.pdf

According to the search warrant, it was Kelsey's truck.

"A 2011 red colored Chevrolet Silverado pick-up truck parked at Kelsey's residence was searched at the WPPD after consent to search was obtained from Kelsey's mother (the registered owner). A Safeway receipt dated 11/22/18 at 1223 hrs. was located on the front passenger seat. The Safeway purchase was for flowers. A Wal-Mart receipt dated 11/22/18 at 0150 hrs. was located on the front passenger floor board. The Wal-Mart purchase was for Tum's Antacid and what appear to be over the counter stomach medicine."

That was KB's late-night trip to get stomach medicine for PF.

 

[MsBetsy]

I wonder if PF turned the temp down to help keep it from decomposing as fast.

Maybe! I didn't even think there would be heat in a hayloft, or even a barn for that matter. Imo

 

[SandyQLS]

I will have to take a look. I do not mean he was looking directly at the camera, I mean it just looks like he is aware that is where he has to stand for it to pick him up, etc. Yah, looking directly at it would be a dead giveaway lol. Just my take on it and that of some others. Just a guess though...

No worries. I'm not criticizing your post or anyone's opinion. I just wanted to say I got such a clearer download on SW112 photos. The toilet, too - in SW111 it looks like a giant drip of blood, but in SW112, it looks much smaller, to me at least.

 

[ilovechili]

Something that I noticed was that Kelsey's Toyota car was registered to both Patrick and Kelsey. The truck she drove was registered to Cheryl. The Corolla was a 2006 model. This was not an expensive vehicle. Why was Patrick shown as a part owner? He also owned her phone service. Now let's say that Patrick was helping to finance this car, that does not mean that he had to be shown as the owner. It really seems to me that Patrick tried to legally entwine himself in everything that Kelsey had and they were not even married. Of course his family denies that they were ever engaged. This also attests to the fact that their relationship was at least originally geared toward marriage. It definitely was not as casual as some made it to seem. What is really troubling is how he tried to own everything she owned which put her in a weak position and would have made it difficult to leave him without him taking many of her possessions. It sort of makes sense why her mother had the truck and townhouse in Cheryl's name so that he couldn't control that, too. By the way, when he went to Safeway, he took Kelsey's truck...not his. The Safeway receipt was in the floorboard showing the time (a little before 2:00) and the purchase was Tums.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/04th_Judicial_District/Teller/caseofinterest/2018CR330/002/18-107 Search Warrant.pdf

Great points. I agree that it looks like he was trying to join finances or at least get involved in hers. I also suspect the mother kept her protected with the truck and the home. He had I believe (I so can't take looking at too many search warrants again) a bank transfer slip of KB's that was taken from the Franch. I am actually wondering if they did not have some joint finances or accounts. They were both at ENT. Just speculation though...

I agree with Julia that the Tums receipt is from KB who got Tums at Walmart for PF on 11/21. There is a Safeway receipt somewhere else in the docs that is from KB's trip there on Thanksgiving morning, or at least a mention of it.

 

[GordianKnot]

That's a good point.

We don't know what LE knows. It's quite possible LE has tried to interview RS and RS, like SF, has refused to talk. That doesn't mean LE is done with him and I think they can do a bit of investigating without a new warrant. They've examined camera footage (that they had access to) to check on KB's and the PF's movements. I wouldn't be surprised if they're going back over the same footage (bank, furniture store) looking for RS's vehicle. They're probably also paying attention to any phone communication (texts, calls) between PF and RS using PF's records.

IIRC, very early on we had hints that at least one other person besides PF was involved. LE went so far as to keep the arrest affidavit under wraps, a highly unusual move. Again, IIRC, there were hints that other witnesses might be involved and there were concerns about evidence being destroyed.

When KK entered the picture, that seemed to be the missing link: she participated, tampered with evidence. It may be that LE knew about or suspected RS but didn't want to tip their hand by calling him in. They released camera footage and as the coverage unfolded, it seemed odd that the 'mystery man' who picked up the package didn't come forward and identify himself, especially in such a small community and if he had nothing to hide.

RS won't flee and it doesn't appear that there's much evidence outstanding that he could tamper with or destroy. I think LE and the DA are keeping a closer watch on this guy than he knows, without feeling the need to call him in before trial.

Great post!

I agree. RS is in a world of trouble right now.
Fortunately, he appears oblivious to the perilous position he's placed himself in by virtue of aiding and abetting PF after the fact.
RS is not in the clear by a long shot.

Reading the account of the trip the pair apparently took to the bank on 12/06, one begins to see how PF may in fact have emulated RS as a "father figure."

• "well, you might as well let her know it's about the missing person."
• "Forget we were ever here."

Moronicity 101 (because of course there are no advanced studies for morons)
Instructor, RS, PhD.*

*In his case, PhD stands for Pin-headed Dunce.

So there's that.

JMO.

 

[ilovechili]

No worries. I'm not criticizing your post or anyone's opinion. I just wanted to say I got such a clearer download on SW112 photos. The toilet, too - in SW111 it looks like a giant drip of blood, but in SW112, it looks much smaller, to me at least.

Oh, I knew it was not criticism, no problem And I appreciate hearing that about the photos. I saw them all but never enlarged, etc. and do not think I have it in a program where I can at the moment. I will look again at some point but I am a bit warranted out. I wish my printer worked lol, I would print them all and highlight what I wanted, etc. Looking at one after the other on a computer screen gets to be a bit much