CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

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  • #601
in the picture with his former girlfriend (Vanessa Curie), his teeth look in tact but I am not sure that I could tell dentures from the real thing

Patrick Frazee, suspect in Kelsey Berreth's disappearance, called 'monster' by ex-girlfriend
In that photo he looks eerily similar to Ted Bundy.
Same leering grin on his face. :mad:

Anyway, I firmly believe he's going to prison LWOP even if they cannot find KB's remains.
There's enough evidence that we DO know of to get a conviction, imho.

And then there's likely loads of evidence the DA has kept from the public that will come out at trial to put this monster away forever.

Dumb and Dumber, PF and KK.
moo
 
  • #602
The things you learn by googling:
"Burning muscle tissue gives off an aroma similar to beef in a frying pan, and body fat smells like a side of fatty pork on the grill. But you probably won't mistake the scent of human remains for a cookout. ... Burning skin has a charcoal like smell, while setting hair on fire produces a sulfurous odor."

I found this same "article" Unfortunately, I found it at 3am and made myself sick with it. Sometimes , I think I should limit my own Google search capabilities !
 
  • #603
In that photo he looks eerily similar to Ted Bundy.
Same leering grin on his face. :mad:

Anyway, I firmly believe he's going to prison LWOP even if they cannot find KB's remains.
There's enough evidence that we DO know of to get a conviction, imho.

And then there's likely loads of evidence the DA has kept from the public that will come out at trial to put this monster away forever.

Dumb and Dumber, PF and KK.
moo
The Bundy reference spot on! Very creepy, crazed eyes and grin of evil. Was disturbed seeing that photo and now I realize why
 
  • #604
I am thinking of KK driving to CO to clean up and I wonder where she parked her car. Did she go to the Franch and PF dropped her off at KB's with a bag containing the cleanup suit and supplies? That doesn't seem likely. Did she park nearby and walk to KB's carrying a bag with the cleanup suit and supplies? The mop and bleach bottle found with blood traces at the Franch indicates she either left her own stuff there or PF borrowed it from Ma and returned it. Where was KK's borrowed car when she was cleaning up? Maybe she drove KB's car and that's why the bloody sock was in there? I wonder if PF had made copies of KB's keys to her townhome and maybe her car nd given them to KK earlier. How else was she expected to kill KK with a pipe except to be able to let herself in and wait in hiding to ambush KB?

Just a note on one part of your post. It was great that her mother was a owner or part-owner on her property to allow law enforcement to gather evidence!
 
  • #605
Yes, it is just sickening, to say the least.
Another thing I mentioned in a previous post, is what those clumps of hardened plastic may contain. Once cooled, it seems there would be a good chance that there might be bone fragments or other burned parts merged together with those pieces of plastic. Imo

how hot was the fire if there are plastic bits that remain? polypropylene "melts" around 300-400F..... not enough to burn bone

Melting and decomp. temp's
 
  • #606
You aren't the only one speaking to evidence, whether conclusive or not.

Your post highlights what happens when we start to parse out individual pieces of evidence, especially circumstantial evidence. Can this or that specific circumstance be explained away by something innocent? Maybe.

But when there is a plethora of it, like in this case, well, belief in truth has to be suspended to believe that a perpetrator (PF) is so darn unlucky as to have had all those pesky circumstances befall him at the same time his significant other goes missing, and is presumed dead.

It is the totality of evidence, circumstantial and otherwise, in a certain time frame that leads to a guilty verdict, and not examining each piece of evidence as a stand-alone act in its own timeline. Using the totality of evidence is called building a case, and before DNA and surveillance cameras, circumstantial evidence is pretty much what LE gathered and used to convict. Circumstantial evidence IS evidence.

I also believe, based on following cases for years, that LE has tons more evidence than what we've seen so far.

I believe they have beyond verified where KK was at the time of KB's death. I believe they know when KB died. Maybe not the exact moment, but pretty darn close.

I believe they will lay out a time line of activity for everyone connected in any way to KB's death--prior, during, and after--and I'm hoping LE goes in guns blazing, so to speak, and annihilates PF and anyone who helped\aided\assisted\covered up\muddied the waters surrounding this crime--the brutal murder of a young innocent mother.

Even without the plethora (your word and I love it!) of evidence the DA has in his back pocket, there is plenty to tell a complete story already in the hopper. (See MassGuy and GK for the long version!)

The DA has the story's introduction which will include months of phone records for solicitation and KK's failed trips to kill KB.

Stir the "I deserve custody and this abusive/alcoholic mother doesn't" motive into the mix, false as it is.

He has the climax of the story with KK traveling and cleaning up blood (of which there is evidence), not to mention PF's timeline at the condo and his travels with KB's phone.

He can bring it all to a conclusion with the little Idaho vacation KK gave to KB's phone.

I've always felt a jury listens for a complete story.

What we have is good and destined to get better!
 
  • #607
  • #608
You aren't the only one speaking to evidence, whether conclusive or not.

Your post highlights what happens when we start to parse out individual pieces of evidence, especially circumstantial evidence. Can this or that specific circumstance be explained away by something innocent? Maybe.

But when there is a plethora of it, like in this case, well, belief in truth has to be suspended to believe that a perpetrator (PF) is so darn unlucky as to have had all those pesky circumstances befall him at the same time his significant other goes missing, and is presumed dead.

It is the totality of evidence, circumstantial and otherwise, in a certain time frame that leads to a guilty verdict, and not examining each piece of evidence as a stand-alone act in its own timeline. Using the totality of evidence is called building a case, and before DNA and surveillance cameras, circumstantial evidence is pretty much what LE gathered and used to convict. Circumstantial evidence IS evidence.

I also believe, based on following cases for years, that LE has tons more evidence than what we've seen so far.

I believe they have beyond verified where KK was at the time of KB's death. I believe they know when KB died. Maybe not the exact moment, but pretty darn close.

I believe they will lay out a time line of activity for everyone connected in any way to KB's death--prior, during, and after--and I'm hoping LE goes in guns blazing, so to speak, and annihilates PF and anyone who helped\aided\assisted\covered up\muddied the waters surrounding this crime--the brutal murder of a young innocent mother.

BBM. Without a body, it is impossible to know the time of KB's death. That's a reality. The prosecution has to work with what they have and they certainly did not annihilate KK. Thanks to that sweat deal they made, I think the jury is going to have a difficult time finding her credible.

I'm glad you are so confident the jury will nail PF on first degree murder. I'm not.

JMO
 
  • #609
Or it is powerful evidence she doesn't want to talk to anyone. Adults can disappear themselves and many have done it which is why LE hesitates to get involved right away. KK's use of KB's cellphone was intended to delay LE getting involved and it worked.

JMO
BBM:

Sometimes I'm a little slow on the uptake, so you'll have to pardon me as I'm struggling to follow the logic here:

Are you suggesting that KB, a responsible, hardworking, conscientious, loving mother and daughter, has voluntarily disappeared herself, leaving her beloved infant daughter, home, vehicles, personal belongings, etc. behind without letting anyone in her family know?

And that furthermore, in order to help her pull off her disappearance, KB enlisted the services of KK, her fiancé's side piece, who obligingly assisted KB in her vanishing act by taking KB's cellphone to throw LE off of KB's scent as she made her getaway to her new life in parts unknown?

I honestly don't think there's a sober person on the planet who would buy that scenario if they were sitting on the jury and the defense tried to sell them that bill of goods.

Frankly, it sounds like the type of defense that PF would craft for himself.

JMO.
 
  • #610
None of what you list is evidence PF murdered KB. The only evidence they have that he killed KB and he used a ball bat is the testimony of KK, a liar who has a huge incentive to lie.

No body, no murder weapon has been found. LE didn't even recognize the townhouse was a crime scene for several days.

There were no rocket scientists on the Casey Anthony jury, either. Just average people who wanted proof of murder and who was responsible. They didn't get it. Even the judge in that trial wasn't convinced it was murder because there was zero evidence the child had a history of abuse.

Casey Anthony Juror: 'Sick to Our Stomachs' Over Not Guilty Verdict

Casey Anthony judge: She probably accidentally killed her daughter - CNN

JMO

Zero? I guess if drugging a 4 year old and putting her in the trunk overnight with duct tape over her mouth so you can party with your boyfriend is not abuse, you're exactly right.
 
  • #611
I remember reading about the envelope with 4 teeth on the warrant.
Envelope was the word used on the official LE doc.
I don't recall reading about "bags of teeth" being taken into evidence anywhere on the official warrant info.

MSM may be taking dramatic liberties. Again. Qu'elle surprise.

JMO.

All those smarts and French too?!
 
  • #612
According to the Denver Post:

Five teeth, potentially bloody sheet found in search of Patrick Frazee’s home, court records show – The Denver Post

They also found “four teeth in a small envelope” and a fifth tooth held separately.

I'm still looking through the search warrant link to look for further details about the teeth they found.
Colorado Judicial Branch

Some reports are saying bags "full of teeth" so were more than 5 found or is just a slight exaggeration on the part of the media?

moo
Gaaah! This teeth business is giving me the hebbie jebbies :eek: I just find it all extremely creepy when considering we know they are adult molars. ewwwwww :p
 
  • #613
  • #614
Or it is powerful evidence she doesn't want to talk to anyone. Adults can disappear themselves and many have done it which is why LE hesitates to get involved right away. KK's use of KB's cellphone was intended to delay LE getting involved and it worked.

JMO

I do not think the jury will understand KB not having Thanksgiving dinner with anyone and PF and SF not concerned about that. The defense may have some sort of explanation, but if PF does not testify, the defense does not even have a main witness to put forth their side of the case, and they will be left trying to shred parts of the prosecution's witnesses' testimony. It will not be any affirmative defense.
 
  • #615
BBM:

Sometimes I'm a little slow on the uptake, so you'll have to pardon me as I'm struggling to follow the logic here:

Are you suggesting that KB, a responsible, hardworking, conscientious, loving mother and daughter, has voluntarily disappeared herself, leaving her beloved infant daughter, home, vehicles, personal belongings, etc. behind without letting anyone in her family know?

And that furthermore, in order to help her pull off her disappearance, KB enlisted the services of KK, her fiancé's side piece, who obligingly assisted KB in her vanishing act by taking KB's cellphone to throw LE off of KB's scent as she made her getaway to her new life in parts unknown?

I honestly don't think there's a sober person on the planet who would buy that scenario if they were sitting on the jury and the defense tried to sell them that bill of goods.

Frankly, it sounds like the type of defense that PF would craft for himself.

JMO.
Exactly! I'm just thankful KB wanted this so badly that she bled herself out and threw the blood around the condo to put a cherry on top of her disappearance, knowing that her dear mother would show up and find said blood.

And she left her cars and make-up.

One smart cookie.
 
  • #616
I remember reading about the envelope with 4 teeth on the warrant.
Envelope was the word used on the official LE doc.
I don't recall reading about "bags of teeth" being taken into evidence anywhere on the official warrant info.

MSM may be taking dramatic liberties. Again. Qu'elle surprise.

JMO.
Yeah, ITA. The macabre media stories about "bags of teeth" is just the media trying to get clicks! o_O
Five is right, although still :eek:.

Gaaah! This teeth business is giving me the hebbie jebbies :eek: I just find it all extremely creepy when considering we know they are adult molars. ewwwwww :p

It makes me wonder what the heck went on at the Ranchette - like a Silence Of The Lambs creepiness // Norman Bates scenario.:eek::eek::eek::eek:

It just seems abnormal and sends shivers down my spine.
I'm so glad that Baby K is with her maternal grandma, and it needs to stay that way.

I have a feeling more shocks are going to come out at trial.

moo
 
  • #617
  • #618
Yeah, ITA. The macabre media stories about "bags of teeth" is just the media trying to get clicks! o_O
Five is right, although still :eek:.



It makes me wonder what the heck went on at the Ranchette - like a Silence Of The Lambs creepiness // Norman Bates scenario.:eek::eek::eek::eek:

It just seems abnormal and sends shivers down my spine.
I'm so glad that Baby K is with her maternal grandma, and it needs to stay that way.

I have a feeling more shocks are going to come out at trial.

moo
nwmouse, remember how stunned we were at what came out during the hearing?
Who would have thought of any of it?
Imagine what else they have if Mama is ever "encouraged" to talk!
 
  • #619
Exactly! I'm just thankful KB wanted this so badly that she bled herself out and threw the blood around the condo to put a cherry on top of her disappearance, knowing that her dear mother would show up and find said blood. And she left her cars and make-up. One smart cookie.

Right, not just a smart cookie, but she'd have to be uber-compassionate, too.
Allowing her parents and brother to believe she'd been viciously murdered.
Abandoning her infant daughter to the tender ministrations of PF.
Ignoring her mother's appeals on television.
Sitting by as searches were mounted, flyers distributed, news stories circulated.
Right.

Wrong.
LE and the DA have categorically stated that KB is deceased.
There is blood everywhere in her home. Her blood.
KB is dead.
PF is charged with her murder.

Go get him, Dan.
You go get this monster.
Stick a needle in his arm.

JMO.
 
  • #620
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