CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

[jewelsmac]

And I often wonder if, even more than PF wanted sole custody, He wanted Kelsey NOT to have it.

In my opinion that pretty much sums it up

 

[Trocroc9]

Dbm

 

[Trocroc9]

Dbm

 

[Colorado303]

True, but it appears he killed Kelsey so he could have custody of the baby in the first place.

It wouldn’t make sense to kill the very person you killed to have.

I could see some murder/suicide scenario in some people, but not in this guy.

Regardless though, it was far safer to remove the baby to be removed from the custody of that side of her family.

Agree. Seems strange to me PF would care that much about custody — he doesn’t strike me as a loving, nurturing father. Or loving, nurturing anything. I’m sure he didn’t want to give KB another penny but wonder if MaMa F was holding a potential inheritance or permanant meal ticket out to him as long as he had custody. There had to be something else in it for him beyond being able to raise his daughter full time. IMO

 

[Colorado303]

I think it is possible that PF lied to KK about the bat as well. He really shot her. Smeared blood all over the apartment intentionally. She cleans it, he gives her the gun. He stages the fire so she thinks KB was burned up. Plan A is that KB is never found and no one charged, but he is preparing plan B at the same time. At or just before trial, KB's body is found, her head isn't beat in, she has a bullet hole in her head and her body isn't burned up. Suddenly KK's testimony is entirely suspect. This is why the DA really wants to find that body and is expending tremendous resources at the landfill. He wants to verify that burning story and not worry about last minute surprises.

That would be pretty clever — I guess it’s possible PF is just pretending to be an idiot but it’s hard for me to look at the boneheaded things he’s done and said and believe he’s smart enough to be that cunning.

 

[skyedaze]

That would be pretty clever — I guess it’s possible PF is just pretending to be an idiot but it’s hard for me to look at the boneheaded things he’s done and said and believe he’s smart enough to be that cunning.

I think he is cunning enough to follow through and do it...not sure he is smart enough to think it up all on his own or complete it correctly.

 

[24Brix]

I’m not sure about that.

PF’s goal was to eliminate Kelsey, and I don’t think he would have thought about spreading blood around the house.

The more blood, the more likely it is that the crime scene is discovered.

He wanted to get away with murder, and I don’t think he made things more difficult, just to spite KK.

A blunt object being used in a small space, will make a hell of a mess.

That’s what I think happened.

Agreed. We also can’t forget just how far forensics have come.

Begin MOO:

I have no doubt they can tell the difference between the intentional blood spatter and “natural” spatter.
There’s even a process called Raman spectrography that can accurately assess the age of blood spatter if it’s less than two years old.

The same goes for digital forensics. It’s virtually impossible to permanently eliminate data now — on the device or in the cloud. They have a treasure trove of info that we’ve only had the smallest glimpse into. PF surrendered his phone, no doubt after his best attempt to clean it up. But they have every non-voice conversation he had with everyone for the last 90 days — and probably longer if the phone was backing up to the cloud — KB, KK, SF, SF2, RS, and who knows how many others.

They have every Google search whether is was in-the-clear or incognito. Location history? They got it. It doesn’t matter if it was deleted or not. It doesn’t matter if it was disabled or not. Too many apps are tracking us now. The average forensic phone dump is about 2500 clear-text pages and it can take a while to go through all of it. Multiply that by the number of online backups they find.

And accelerants are volatile. If they can detect them, they can probably estimate when they were used just like they can estimate ToD on a body.

The DA knows so much more than we do. I’m confident justice will be served.

End MOO.

 

[skyedaze]

Agree. Seems strange to me PF would care that much about custody — he doesn’t strike me as a loving, nurturing father. Or loving, nurturing anything. I’m sure he didn’t want to give KB another penny but wonder if MaMa F was holding a potential inheritance or permanant meal ticket out to him as long as he had custody. There had to be something else in it for him beyond being able to raise his daughter full time. IMO

Yeah..something's missing here.

 

[MassGuy]

Yeah..something's missing here.

This is certainly an odd one.

We see men do this sort of thing, while they are in the midst of a divorce.

No divorce here, because there was never a marriage.

No custody fight, as these two apparently had a viable arrangement.

Despite what PF claimed, it appears that these two were still an item (in Kelsey’s eyes), atleast up until he killed her.

So while I do think that custody was a motive, all the usual things that lead up to a crime like this, simply aren’t there.

“Something’s missing here,” alright.

Then again, you could say the same about PF.

 

[skyedaze]

This is certainly an odd one.

We see men do this sort of thing, while they are in the midst of a divorce.

No divorce here, because there was never a marriage.

No custody fight, as these two apparently had a viable arrangement.

Despite what PF claimed, it appears that these two were still an item (in Kelsey’s eyes), atleast up until he killed her.

So while I do think that custody was a motive, all the usual things that lead up to a crime like this, simply aren’t there.

“Something’s missing here,” alright.

Then again, you could say the same about PF.

LOL!
I wonder what it is???
Probably something stupid.

 

[Hatch]

wouldn't KB have told CB if she was pregnant a second time? I keep thinking of PF's "time line" starting in September and telling KK 'you'll have another chance.' I know we discussed this before. I never understood what was driving the time line.

IMO KB was not pregnant, it seems the first pregnancy was a surprise with no marriage to follow, I truly believe KB would not make that mistake again without a wedding ring. Once bitten twice shy. Yes history proves KK is a liar and possibly a manipulator but honest even KK and certainly not PF would of thought to spread blood all over a small condo and leave used tampons in the trash. Neither KK or PF are masterminds or they would not be where they are today , KK with a plea deal that could backfire on her if she has told even the smallest of lies, and PF in jail looking at LWOP.
DBM partial

 

[MassGuy]

LOL!
I wonder what it is???
Probably something stupid.

Knowing PF, it’s DEFINITELY something stupid.

Unfortunately, we’ll have to wait a while to figure out what the specifics of the motive are.

I do think we’ll end up with a fairly coherent picture though.

 

[LietKynes]

yeah- the objection to "going out to dinner with co workers," which most normal people would do on occasion, always struck me as particularly idiotic. Maybe PF just hated KB having a condo and a job and co workers. Maybe he only wanted her to toss cattle cubes, but even then he was not satisfied with her.

SABBM

^^^ Exactly.

What a control freak.
Everything this lunatic has verbalized or posted about Kelsey just solidifies the fact that she was a responsible person and a better human than PF could ever hope to be.

Also interested in the environment PF was raised, and if his mother was influential in much of his decision-making ?
We'll most likely never know, unless someone within the family or close friend talks.

Hoping they'll find something of evidentiary value at the landfill , as sad as that sounds !

 

[NanZDrew]

She was doing things for him right up until he murdered her. She had just bought the ingredients for sweet potato casserole to make for him! Doesn't sound like they had just broken up to me. Imo

Sounds like she was totally blindsided.

 

[Hatch]

Agree. Seems strange to me PF would care that much about custody — he doesn’t strike me as a loving, nurturing father. Or loving, nurturing anything. I’m sure he didn’t want to give KB another penny but wonder if MaMa F was holding a potential inheritance or permanant meal ticket out to him as long as he had custody. There had to be something else in it for him beyond being able to raise his daughter full time. IMO

I think he lived and stayed close to momma for the pie in the sky someday, PF is the kind of guy that enough is never enough he wants it all $$$ and control of everything and everyone around him.
Adding: he surrounded himself with people he could control and kick the S--t out of when he needed to pump his ego up.

 

[NanZDrew]

SABBM

^^^ Exactly.

What a control freak.
Everything this lunatic has verbalized or posted about Kelsey just solidifies the fact that she was a responsible person and a better human than PF could ever hope to be.

Also interested in the environment PF was raised, and if his mother was influential in much of his decision-making ?
We'll most likely never know, unless someone within the family or close friend talks.

Hoping they'll find something of evidentiary value at the landfill , as sad as that sounds !

I remember one of his classmates saying he just had a certain crowd of friends that he hung out. I sort of think, like CW, he wasn't that socially adept. He probably was insecure being in a different setting and didn't want to put himself in a situation where he might look stupid.

 

[skyedaze]

Spot on!

I get worried when we start discussing motives. For example, let’s say the prosecution argues motive was custody. Then defense may come back and proves PF wasn’t looking for custody. Or if they said motive was money and it turns out he actually was providing support. A jury could look at it and say, well, he didn’t have that motive.. therefore he didn’t do it.

Even hatred doesn’t seem motive enough to swing a bat into the head of the mother of your child to the point her teeth are knocked out by their roots. Splatter her blood into far corners of multiple rooms. With your baby mere steps away. On Thanksgiving.

That is beyond hate. It’s disturbed and subhuman.

I agree with you, Love Never Fails.

PF is a psychopath.

Yep.
The way he killed KB was more than just mean.

 

[NanZDrew]

I think it is possible that PF lied to KK about the bat as well. He really shot her. Smeared blood all over the apartment intentionally. She cleans it, he gives her the gun. He stages the fire so she thinks KB was burned up. Plan A is that KB is never found and no one charged, but he is preparing plan B at the same time. At or just before trial, KB's body is found, her head isn't beat in, she has a bullet hole in her head and her body isn't burned up. Suddenly KK's testimony is entirely suspect. This is why the DA really wants to find that body and is expending tremendous resources at the landfill. He wants to verify that burning story and not worry about last minute surprises.

Really, so much of her story is hearsay. What Patrick wanted her to say. I really hope that it happened this way...since she did die...so that she would not conceiveably suffer as much.

 

[NanZDrew]

RESULTS: Homicides (n=110) were the leading cause of death during pregnancy and the first postpartum year. Women who were African American, younger than 25 years, and unmarried were at the highest risk for homicide. Firearms were the most common (61.8%) method of death.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIDhAE&usg=AOvVaw1QXcRz3Ce6CDwR-z3qj_uc

.. just noting this fact, not that I think that she was pregnant at all as I doubt KKL left her own used tampon. @FromGermany

I believe I remember hearing these statistics when Lacey Peterson was killed.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

https://goldmanlaw303.com/termination-of-parental-rights-in-colorado

Involuntary Termination of Parental Rights
If the court feels that it is in the best interests of the child, they may decide to take away parental rights. By doing this, the individual is no longer considered to be a child’s legal parent.

To order a termination of parental rights, the court must find clear and convincing evidence of any of the following:

• The child has been abandoned by his or her parent
• The parent is deemed unfit due to mental illness, emotional illness, or mental deficiency rendering him or her unlikely to care for the child’s physical, emotional, and mental needs in a timely manner
• A pattern of abuse, sexual abuse, torture, or extreme cruelty to the child, the child’s sibling, or another child of either parent

Seems, PF worked this part of the list thoroughly before the murder .... All his accusations, he told his friends/clients/family about poor KB, who probably didn't know.

A parent must also go to court for a hearing before parental rights can be terminated. The only exception to this rule is when the relinquishment involves a child below one year of age, as there are laws that allow for a quicker process if the other natural parent cannot be found or does not object.

I was searching for a reason, why PF may have started his soliciting since Sept. 1st. What had happened in August? Perhaps, he "had enough" then (as he said) and he became aware, that the process of getting 100% custody of little K would be more easy before her first birthday in October?