CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

[GordianKnot]

He’s certainly comfortable with inflicting violence; too comfortable.

I don’t think he’s ever killed before, as this type of crime isn’t indicative of something a serial killer would do.

It was purposeful, albeit evil.

Animals though? You betcha.

Exactly right.

PF is very comfortable with inflicting pain upon others, because other people's feelings have no meaning or relevance to him.

PF has absolutely no regard for the feelings of others, either emotionally or physically.

He ain't a man. He's a monster.

I agree that KB was the first person he killed and she will be the last person he kills.

He's going away forever.

JMO.

 

[GordianKnot]

So you just believe he has lived these thirty something years waiting for a chance to beat someone to death with a baseball bat? Maybe so but I can see him killing someone in his past who got in the way of anything he wanted.

LNF, I totally agree with you that he's probably had the impulse to kill in the past, but we have to remember:

This is PF we're talking about here.

There is no way, absolutely, positively, no way whatsoever, that PF would have gotten away with killing someone prior to KB without being caught. As we've seen in this case, he's incapable of going undetected.

<modsnipped> I mean that sincerely.

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

So you just believe he has lived these thirty something years waiting for a chance to beat someone to death with a baseball bat? Maybe so but I can see him killing someone in his past who got in the way of anything he wanted.

I don’t think he was waiting 30 years to kill someone, I think it simply took that long for him to have the motive to do it.

 

[GordianKnot]

I think his only angle is to point at KK.

The defense would have to shift the timeline, somehow explain away all PF’s lies, discount any forensic evidence, cast doubt on all the cell phone evidence, and somehow separate PF from the crime, while putting KK at the crime scene.

If they can do that, and luck out with a jury that is completely unable to grasp evidence, they still probably won’t have a chance in hell.

BBM:

None whatsoever.

We all absolutely believe that PF killed Kelsey, and KK had nothing to do with the murder itself.

I don't think that's even up for debate.

I don't think the jury will think so, either.

JMO.

 

[303gmf]

MG, I am still wondering what his motive was. We have both believed from the beginning it was custody. But I still can’t get over a baseball bat death. How horrifying. Even though he planned this for months, and even though it has been revealed how stupid he is, why use a baseball bat? That speaks to a lot of anger. Why not push someone off a cliff? Or use a gun? Why a baseball bat?

PF was on the Woodland Park High School baseball team, a familiar weapon perhaps?

 

[Love Never Fails]

I think his only angle is to point at KK.

The defense would have to shift the timeline, somehow explain away all PF’s lies, discount any forensic evidence, cast doubt on all the cell phone evidence, and somehow separate PF from the crime, while putting KK at the crime scene.

If they can do that, and luck out with a jury that is completely unable to grasp evidence, they still probably won’t have a chance in hell.

You made me laugh out loud. I just think defense lawyers would need to honestly tell him he should plead guilty. Then I think of Jose Baez and the Florida jury.

Pointing at KK will not work for him. He will need for her to recant her story and take the fall for him. She isn’t that sick.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Exactly right.

PF is very comfortable with inflicting pain upon others, because other people's feelings have no meaning or relevance to him.

PF has absolutely no regard for the feelings of others, either emotionally or physically.

He ain't a man. He's a monster.

I agree that KB was the first person he killed and she will be the last person he kills.

He's going away forever.

JMO.

Hope you are correct.

 

[Love Never Fails]

LNF, I totally agree with you that he's probably had the impulse to kill in the past, but we have to remember:

This is PF we're talking about here.

There is no way, absolutely, positively, no way whatsoever, that PF would have gotten away with killing someone prior to KB without being caught. As we've seen in this case, he's incapable of going undetected.

Simply stated, PF is too stupid to get away with murder. I mean that sincerely.

JMO.

I know you mean that but what if there was someone he shoved off a cliff and no one ever considered that gold ole hometown country boy?

 

[Love Never Fails]

PF was on the Woodland Park High School baseball team, a familiar weapon perhaps?

Wow. Didn’t know that. So the ole boy likes swinging a bat? Guess that’s all he is good at.

 

[MemPat]

For whatever reason, bludgeoning had been on his mind for a couple months (going back to two of the solicitation attempts).

After that final search of Kelsey’s house, and PF’s subsequent arrest, my theory was that he beat her to death with a blunt object.

My guess at the time was a crowbar or hammer.

When KK came along and said baseball bat, it struck me as being true.

His anger seems to manifest itself via beatings, and it makes sense that he would chose to kill in this way.

A gun is too noisy, and strangulation just isn’t him.

He picked one of the most horiffic ways there is, to kill Kelsey.

Fortunately, he left a mountain of evidence in his wake.

That’s also his style.

<modsnipped>

I believe PF's first thoughts of killing KB included bludgeoning and I would bet that was the first idea he floated past KK.

I suspect KK, as much as she wanted KB out of the picture, didn't feel the rage that a beating required so she suggested the more passive poisoned Starbucks.

I still think she actually put drugs in the coffee but KB was smart enough not to drink something offered by a stranger at the door. <modsnipped>

Then PF started talking up the bludgeoning again.

MOO

 

[GordianKnot]

For whatever reason, bludgeoning had been on his mind for a couple months (going back to two of the solicitation attempts).

After that final search of Kelsey’s house, and PF’s subsequent arrest, my theory was that he beat her to death with a blunt object.

My guess at the time was a crowbar or hammer.

When KK came along and said baseball bat, it struck me as being true.

His anger seems to manifest itself via beatings, and it makes sense that he would chose to kill in this way.

A gun is too noisy, and strangulation just isn’t him.

He picked one of the most horiffic ways there is, to kill Kelsey.

Fortunately, he left a mountain of evidence in his wake.

That’s also his style.

<modsnipped>

Exactly right.

PF is a primitive, violent brute.

Like you, I've always thought he used a blunt instrument to kill KB.

I thought it possible he used a rasp, or one of his other tools.

Because PF is about as subtle as, well, a bat to the head.

I'm convinced that PF did in fact use a baseball bat to bludgeon KB to death.

JMO.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I believe PF's first thoughts of killing KB included bludgeoning and I would bet that was the first idea he floated past KK.

I suspect KK, as much as she wanted KB out of the picture, didn't feel the rage that a beating required so she suggested the more passive poisoned Starbucks.

I still think she actually put drugs in the coffee but KB was smart enough not to drink something offered by a stranger at the door. (She was way smarter than these doofuses!)

MOO

I agree that KK actually poisoned the coffee somehow and it’s too bad she cannot be charged for it. I agree that KB was too smart to drink anything from a stranger. But she was sure conned by this supposed cowboy.

 

[Irmese]

LNF, I totally agree with you that he's probably had the impulse to kill in the past, but we have to remember:

This is PF we're talking about here.

There is no way, absolutely, positively, no way whatsoever, that PF would have gotten away with killing someone prior to KB without being caught. As we've seen in this case, he's incapable of going undetected.

Simply stated, PF is too stupid to get away with murder. I mean that sincerely.

JMO.

IDK about that. If it hadn't been for KB's mom and brother, he very well would (edited to say COULD) have gotten away with it. He thought he had. I do think this was his first murder, but only because we don't have any evidence that there were any others. I do wonder if he had been catfishing women, though. He seems to like women who live some distance away. Much easier to juggle multiple women and dump them when they live far away.

 

[Harmony 2]

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[Oregon]

IDK about that. If it hadn't been for KB's mom and brother, he very well would (edited to say COULD) have gotten away with it. He thought he had. I do think this was his first murder, but only because we don't have any evidence that there were any others. I do wonder if he had been catfishing women, though. He seems to like women who live some distance away. Much easier to juggle multiple women and dump them when they live far away.

I think had CB/CB2 not found the blood, PF would still have eventually need caught. At some point, maybe years from now the town home would have been remodeled and the blood evidence under the flooring would have been exposed and reported. I think there would have been too much to ignore. I am thrilled that the Berreth’s found the evidence. I am glad PF will spend the rest of his life in prison, I only wish the state of Colorado could offer him even more punishment.

 

[MassGuy]

I think had CB/CB2 not found the blood, PF would still have eventually need caught. At some point, maybe years from now the town home would have been remodeled and the blood evidence under the flooring would have been exposed and reported. I think there would have been too much to ignore. I am thrilled that the Berreth’s found the evidence. I am glad PF will spend the rest of his life in prison, I only wish the state of Colorado could offer him even more punishment.

You know, I’m not sure.

A lot of the evidence against PF, was pretty time sensitive.

His cell phone would be gone, that surveillance footage of him returning to the house would have been deleted, and memories fade.

Is it possible that he could still be charged and convicted years from now? Of course.

But I do think the odds would have substantially decreased.

They’ve got him dead to rights now, and that’s what matters.

 

[Irmese]

I think had CB/CB2 not found the blood, PF would still have eventually need caught. At some point, maybe years from now the town home would have been remodeled and the blood evidence under the flooring would have been exposed and reported. I think there would have been too much to ignore. I am thrilled that the Berreth’s found the evidence. I am glad PF will spend the rest of his life in prison, I only wish the state of Colorado could offer him even more punishment.

Maybe, or the townhomes might have been destroyed for another building and the blood stains never noticed. Anyway, like you, I'm so glad the Berreths found the spots and glad the cops didn't just say, "We've already checked,..."

 

[Irmese]

You know, I’m not sure.

A lot of the evidence against PF, was pretty time sensitive.

His cell phone would be gone, that surveillance footage of him returning to the house would have been deleted, and memories fade.

Is it possible that he could still be charged and convicted years from now? Of course.

But I do think the odds would have substantially decreased.

They’ve got him dead to rights now, and that’s what matters.

Yes, I think that if much time had passed, a lot of evidence would have been lost. I hope LE finds some remains. I'm sure there's still a substantial part of the body left after the fire. Is there a river close to PF's where he might have dumped it? I haven't seen much talk about that possibility. I doubt that he would have dumped it in the river because it might show up unexpectedly.

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, I think that if much time had passed, a lot of evidence would have been lost. I hope LE finds some remains. I'm sure there's still a substantial part of the body left after the fire. Is there a river close to PF's where he might have dumped it? I haven't seen much talk about that possibility. I doubt that he would have dumped it in the river because it might show up unexpectedly.

I do think there’s quite a bit left to find.

I think we’ll come to learn that they do have solid evidence that Kelsey’s body was disposed of at the landfill.

I don’t think they are searching on a whim.

 

[GordianKnot]

They’ve got him dead to rights now, and that’s what matters.

RSABBM:

Agreed. This right here is all that matters.

Wouldas, couldas, mightabeens, are all irrelevant to the case, and impossible to determine.

As well all know, PF is soooooooo amazingly, stunningly, mind-blowingly intelligent, I guess we're just plain lucky everything fell into place for LE to nab him in record-setting time.

I'm sure DA May is just quaking in his boots at the prospect of having to try this case against such an inarguably brilliant defendant.

JMO.