CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #52 *ARREST*

[ilovechili]

(bolding mine)

Yes, particularly the new charge added in February - tampering with a deceased body. DA May has to have something a lot more solid than just KK's word to be confident enough to add the charge.

For sure. Not to be confused with tampering of a corpse which at first was what I was thinking of. The fairly recent 2016 explanation of tampering with a deceased body is interesting as is the addition of the charge.

 

[steeltowngirl]

There are so many possibilities. We will probably never guess what it is and it will turn out to be something like a tissue that PF used to blow his nose with traces of the victims blood, found in his truck.
What could it have been to be described as urgent initially and later said to be not as urgent as they first believed?

Maybe KB’s gun.
PF’s prints would be on it as he admitted having taken it from her and returning it. KK’s prints on it don’t matter to prosecution as it aligns with her story. But KK’s prints on it are meaningful to the defense, if they don’t buy her story. Or rather, if they don’t want that story sold to the jury.

 

[ilovechili]

It is really weird that PF hasn’t yet entered a not guilty plea. He must be at least speaking, and not refusing to plead, or the judge would have entered it for him. And he already knows the prosecution has a mountain of evidence against him. He must know the strength of the prosecution’s case already. If it is the defense wanting and waiting for the additional evidence testing, it would seem they are trying to see how likely it is that he can ‘beat’ the charges. I don’t know, it’s so puzzling.

Pretty unusual at least imo. A deal being talked? I mean if it is just waiting until they know all of the results, something could still be found after he pleads even months from now... Like her remains...

 

[borndem]

For those that followed the Watts case, there's a particular bit of compelling footage: when he and the cops view the neighbor's security footage that exposes his lies.

I would like to see the comparable PF moment: the moment during interrogation or in the courtroom when he's caught and he knows it and we know it.

Watts (you know, the one who is/was smarter than all of 'em -- LE included) tells on himself the minute he talks to LE at his house that day, and his mouth and his body language betray him from the get-go. Narcissistic idiot.
PF is a bit smarter -- he doesn't seem to be talking as stupidly as Watts did, but he does share a large chunk of Narcissism with a good bit of "I have to win every time," thrown in. It's difficult for those types to keep their mouths shut.
And yes, I do want to see his face on that day in the courtroom.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Pretty unusual at least imo. A deal being talked? I mean if it is just waiting until they know all of the results, something could still be found after he pleads even months from now... Like her remains...

Unless he knows the remains will never be found.

 

[ilovechili]

Unless he knows the remains will never be found.

True. I meant it though more generally as in any evidence being found after a plea. A bat, a body, a sweater, a tape, a witness or anything. If he cannot plead until all results are in, that could always occur and he could want to change his plea.

Regardless, they granted the adjournment, but such things could occur even after a plea.

 

[MemPat]

Good additions, GK, thanks! And yours are from the search warrants, so easily could be one of those. I was digging around trying to learn if the consumptive evidence had been tied to items already listed in the warrants, or could it be something we don’t know? I haven’t found it said for sure.

And wasn’t this evidence said to be located in Twin Falls, but not easily transported? Did I imagine that?

Anyways, while digging, I found this interesting: ”News 5 asked Mark Pfoff, a former detective in the El Paso County Sheriff’s Office who worked on more than 50 homicide investigations, what that testing means.

“You’re usually looking at some form of body fluids, whether it’s blood or saliva or something like that,” Pfoff said.”
Charges, motions provide preview of evidence against Patrick Frazee

Hmmmm, maybe some sweat from KK's brow?

 

[travelbug]

I have a feeling more than KK,and PF will go down once this case is done.
MOO

I hope so! For a long time I've thought KK may have targeted more than just PF. She wanted PF to herself and what better way to accomplish that? Simple, just take down the "puppet master". jmo

 

[MassGuy]

I hope so! For a long time I've thought KK may have targeted more than just PF. She wanted PF to herself and what better way to accomplish that? Simple, just take down the "puppet master". jmo

As I see it, you’ve got the roles reversed.

Don’t get me wrong, I do think that KK wanted this, atleast on some level.

PF wanted it more though, and was able to use KK to facilitate the coverup of this crime.

He was the “puppet master,” while KK was a willing puppet.

He has a pattern of controlling behavior, demonstrated by those episodes of animal abuse, and that hospital incident.

This culminated in the control of baby K, via the murder of her mother.

 

[travelbug]

As I see it, you’ve got the roles reversed.

Don’t get me wrong, I do think that KK wanted this, atleast on some level.

PF wanted it more though, and was able to use KK to facilitate the coverup of this crime.

He was the “puppet master,” while KK was a willing puppet.

He has a pattern of controlling behavior, demonstrated by those episodes of animal abuse, and that hospital incident.

This culminated in the control of baby K, via the murder of her mother.

I'm not disagreeing in the least with what you say. I was responding to this post in the belief that one more person may go down. PF has clearly never been able to manage his own life. Dumb and dumber didn't devise this entire complicated, yet ill-advised, plan on their own: imho

I have a feeling more than KK,and PF will go down once this case is done.
MOO

 

[Hatch]

I’m compiling a list of possible items that could be the subject of the pending consumptive testing. Feel free to add others, or eliminate any of these as unlikely.

Unknown DNA in KB’s apt

The gun(s)

The melted balls

Blood on the swiffer

A bat (not listed in evidence however)

The bloody sheet

An unknown weapon with another’s fingerprints

Bullet shell?

Blood in PF or KB truck

Flesh or brain matter

 

[katydid23]

Re: the welfare check. They are tricky - I've heard of a family member calling for a welfare check on another family member strictly to harass that person. It can also be dangerous, depending on how it is handled. At the same time, I have a family member who wouldn't be here today if the police hadn't broken down her door when she didn't respond to a welfare check. She was a young woman who had had a terrible stroke and was lying helpless on the floor, unable to move.

That said, when a mother with small children goes missing and the child/children are with the SO/husband, I think those welfare checks should be more thorough. I haven't heard any hard data on how often mothers abandon their young children, particularly mothers with a steady job and no prior history of substance abuse or mental health issues, but I suspect the numbers are pretty low.

Drew Peterson and Chris Watts come immediately to mind. Yeah, we're supposed to believe both of those mothers just up and ran away with their mythical boyfriend. Sorry, I just don't believe it happens that way very often - if ever.

I agree about the early stages of the investigation - that first search of the house with a cadaver dog and luminol was inexcusably sloppy. Were it not for the efforts of CB, I think PF would have gotten away with it.

One of the bigger hurdles for the defense is to try (maybe) to hint at an alternative scenario to explain the facts. Here's one I heard last night as some folks at dinner were speculating: PF gave KB her gun back, thought she was 'sane'. He went over on Thanksgiving day, she'd found out about KK, she took her just-returned gun and either shot herself or got shot as he struggled to get the gun from her. He panicked, knowing things had been bad between them and that the SO is the first suspect, and (tug at the heartstrings moment) his dear little daughter was in the next room and he was just thinking about her. Everything afterwards was the result of a panicking but innocent guy.

PF's buddies RS and the Cline's Corner guy would believe this.

How does the above scenario fit with Kk’s version of events? Would she make up the story about her 3 attempts to kill the victim during that time if it was a sudden accident on Thanksgiving?

I don’t see how those things fit

Also, it doesn’t fit with the timeline of him calling KK to come down on thanksgiving

 

[Hatch]

I’m compiling a list of possible items that could be the subject of the pending consumptive testing. Feel free to add others, or eliminate any of these as unlikely.

Unknown DNA in KB’s apt

The gun(s)

The melted balls

Blood on the swiffer

A bat (not listed in evidence however)

The bloody sheet

An unknown weapon with another’s fingerprints

Bullet shell?

Blood in PF or KB truck

PF hat, boots, shoelaces

Swabs from door knobs

KB panties( remember the cadaver dogs hit on them ) could be menstral blood)

Blood on Cleaning bottles

Cinnamon roles

 

[Colorado303]

Thanks for compiling this list!!

I would add these 3 things:

• Bottle of bleach
• Bottle of Simple Green
• Swab of inside of washing machine

I keep thinking about that gun w/the bullet missing. Could they be trying to test something for gunpowder residue?

 

[Hatch]

Maybe KB’s gun.
PF’s prints would be on it as he admitted having taken it from her and returning it. KK’s prints on it don’t matter to prosecution as it aligns with her story. But KK’s prints on it are meaningful to the defense, if they don’t buy her story. Or rather, if they don’t want that story sold to the jury.

Any blood even a speck would begin rusting the metal immediately. Easy to over see unless you were a professional.

 

[MassGuy]

How does the above scenario fit with Kk’s version of events? Would she make up the story about her 3 attempts to kill the victim during that time if it was a sudden accident on Thanksgiving?

I don’t see how those things fit

Also, it doesn’t fit with the timeline of him calling KK to come down on thanksgiving

Yeah, it doesn’t fit, does it?

If he makes that claim, then why would KK implicate herself to the extent that she did.

She looks like a terrible human being, for absolutely no reason.

Nope.

 

[Hatch]

Remember the flowery sheet with blood on it conviscated at the Franch. That might fall into consumptive range.
If it KB's the Fric n Frac show might as well cancel their future performances.
If PF got blood KB blood in his mouth and spit in a trash can KK did not empty that might classify. <modsnip - unnecessary graphic>

 

[Hatch]

I believe it was late January or maybe February that a local Woodland Park blogger interviewed a woman only identified as a Florissant neighhbor of PF who stated that he worked at her ranch for most of the day Friday - day after Thanksgiving. I believe she agreed to do the interview because she was wanted the public to know that even though PF worked for her on Friday, she still had not been contacted by LE. MOO

Is that the one that said he was weird and a watcher of her and she went inside the barn until he was finished.

 

[MassGuy]

Remember the flowery sheet with blood on it conviscated at the Franch. That might fall into consumptive range.
If it KB's the Fric n Frac show might as well cancel their future performances.
If PF got blood KB blood in his mouth and spit in a trash can KK did not empty that be classify.

That sheet contained observable blood, so I definitely don’t think that’s the consumptive issue.

It takes a tiny amount of blood to get a DNA result these days.

I continue to believe this is in relation to a swab, either of that washing machine, or of some item that may contain skin cells.

 

[GordianKnot]

That sheet contained observable blood, so I definitely don’t think that’s the consumptive issue.

It takes a tiny amount of blood to get a DNA result these days.

I continue to believe this is in relation to a swab, either of that washing machine, or of some item that may contain skin cells.

Washing machine swab makes a lot of sense.

JMO.