CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #52 *ARREST*

[LietKynes]

Marking my spot.

As far as the drugged coffee drink...makes me wonder if any meds have gone missing while KK was employed at the hospital/clinic ?

Not that she couldn't buy illegally obtained meds like succinylcholine , cyanide ,etc.
If she could entertain the thought of murder--- stealing drugs from her workplace or from a dealer wouldn't be a problem.(to her)

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I realize most of us would tell him to take a leap, my point in asking the question about what you would clean, I am on the hunt for the consumptive DNA, trying to get in KK's mind set and what all would you clean besides the obvious.
What did she miss in the cleaning they may have swabbed and found a minute amount of DNA. Inside door knobs is what I would clean they hold DNA out the kazoo, what else? PF was in there about two hours what was he doing and touching ? If KK missed that splat of blood on the outside of the commode what else did she miss?

How about the exterior handle of the front door? Not for his DNA since he was a frequent visitor there, but for blood. Awkward for her to clean since she would be visible from outside the building while she did it.

 

[Penny4YourThoughts]

Here’s the thing, she made three attempts to kill Kelsey herself. Clearly, she wasn’t fully committed to doing so.

She was willing to drive that incredible distance, which shows that she atleast entertained the thought.

By these actions, she demonstrated that she was comfortable with Kelsey being killed, and the fact she didn’t stop this damn thing, is further evidence of that.

She just didn’t want to do it herself.

That’s why I don’t think it’s a stretch to believe that she was willing to clean, because it was better than the alternative.

He was able to talk to her like that, and she was receptive to it, because she was in on it.

She wanted it.

And that’s why she’s so terrible.

^^THIS^^
HOPE for the livelihood of MPs + HOPE for their ppl to one day recover them drives my interest in cases. The TERRIBLE HUMANS + THEIR TERRIBLE METHODS we learn of push my fury button so I take big breaks btwn check backs in HOPE of Justice. I'm thankful to you all for updates and thought-provoking posts, no matter my distance btwn visits to KB's threads.

 

[GordianKnot]

I realize most of us would tell him to take a leap, my point in asking the question about what you would clean, I am on the hunt for the consumptive DNA, trying to get in KK's mind set and what all would you clean besides the obvious.
What did she miss in the cleaning they may have swabbed and found a minute amount of DNA. Inside door knobs is what I would clean they hold DNA out the kazoo, what else? PF was in there about two hours what was he doing and touching ? If KK missed that splat of blood on the outside of the commode what else did she miss?

*Disclaimer: IANAS (I Am Not a Scientist)

I dunno. I'm thinking about the swabs that tested positive presumptive for blood, particularly the bottle of bleach and/or Simple Green.

If the DNA traces on either of those was really small, I can see that requiring consumptive testing. Would the fact that it's a bleach bottle and bleach destroys DNA complicate the consumptive testing, and maybe that's why they're having a hard time settling on the right testing method?

The swab that was taken inside of the washing machine at the ranchette also seems like a strong possibility, like MG suggested earlier.

TBH, I think it could be any of the items that LE seized in the SWs, but I think it's most likely going to be something they took either from PF's vehicle or from the ranchette vs. an item from KB's townhome.

JMO.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Could it be MG's gun, the one missing a bullet? Is there something KK told CBI about PF firing a shot at something, that they did not reveal in the AA? MG, after hearing of KB being reported as a missing person, felt compelled to check the gun she left in her car that she loaned to KK and was disturbed enough about finding it in an altered state that she called LE. JMT.

I’m also intrigued by the gun. The defense could want the gun tested for KK’s prints. Then the defense might cobble together an alternate theory where KK shot KB. That theory could really fly if her body was found, with bullet holes. Without the body, all the phone evidence and the cell phones traveling together would require a really far fetched story, like KK actually had PF’s phone. And that KB was either alive beyond Thanksgiving day and somehow PF didn’t talk to her or see her, but their phones were near one another, perhaps her following him. And/or KK was in CO earlier than she said.

My head spins trying to piece together the details that would magically have to fall together to set aside known facts. But I do expect antics and convolution of logic will be presented by the defense.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Can PF plea bargain for a lesser charge on the condition the real murderer is brought to justice? And on the condition the body is located?

Thinking he could admit to conspiracy, and bring someone else down for the actual murder. He’d need some solid proof.

Personally, I think PF did it, but the postponement of the arraignment is puzzling to me. Someone is buying time on a plea for some reason.

 

[margarita25]

Can PF plea bargain for a lesser charge on the condition the real murderer is brought to justice? And on the condition the body is located?

Thinking he could admit to conspiracy, and bring someone else down for the actual murder. He’d need some solid proof.

Personally, I think PF did it, but the postponement of the arraignment is puzzling to me. Someone is buying time on a plea for some reason.

I’m not that concerned about any court related postponements after following so many other cases post arrest (with the help of @Niner ‘s awesome updates). I don’t find this motion to delay out of the ordinary, moo. I have seen other cases drag out for years, (an infuriating example of this: Prosecutors slam delays in case of slain Bullhead City girl Isabella Grogan-Cannella

“KINGMAN — Mohave County prosecutors are frustrated after years of delays and defense attorney turnover in the case of a man accused of killing a Bullhead City girl.

Mohave County Deputy Attorney Greg McPhillips said those delays need to stop, the Today's News-Herald newspaper reported.

The trial of Justin James Rector is scheduled to begin next April after four years of delays. But Phoenix attorney Julia Cassels is still trying to gather expert witnesses to testify in Rector's defense.“

Four years of delays!! Wth!)

—

“The prosecution agreed to the delay.

"We are still waiting for some testing to be done on some of the evidence and we'd like to get more of that testing done before we hold arraignment," the district attorney said. "... In our jurisdiction, by the way, almost every homicide case takes about a year or so to get to trial."”

Judge delays hearing of Colorado man accused of beating fiancée to death
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/04/05/us/colorado-frazee-hearing-postponed/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

 

[steeltowngirl]

I’m not that concerned about any court related postponements after following so many other cases post arrest (with the help of @Niner ‘s awesome updates). I don’t find this motion to delay out of the ordinary, moo. I have seen other cases drag out for years, (an infuriating example of this: Prosecutors slam delays in case of slain Bullhead City girl Isabella Grogan-Cannella )

—

“The prosecution agreed to the delay.

"We are still waiting for some testing to be done on some of the evidence and we'd like to get more of that testing done before we hold arraignment," the district attorney said. "... In our jurisdiction, by the way, almost every homicide case takes about a year or so to get to trial."”

Judge delays hearing of Colorado man accused of beating fiancée to death
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/04/05/us/colorado-frazee-hearing-postponed/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

Thanks Margarita25, helps to know the delays are typical. We are all anxious to see Justice for Kelsey, but I guess it takes what it takes, time wise.

It had mostly caught my attention since it was the defense who made the postponement request.

“The arraignment was postponed at the request of defense counsel because all of the evidence in the case has not been tested.”
Arraignment postponed for Patrick Frazee in the alleged killing of fiancée Kelsey Berreth

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Can PF plea bargain for a lesser charge on the condition the real murderer is brought to justice? And on the condition the body is located?

Thinking he could admit to conspiracy, and bring someone else down for the actual murder. He’d need some solid proof.

Personally, I think PF did it, but the postponement of the arraignment is puzzling to me. Someone is buying time on a plea for some reason.

Another option I have not seen mentioned as to the reason for the delay. Perhaps the DA said that they would not consider a plea agreement at all until after the end of searching the landfill. I was thinking perhaps he was just delaying it to see if body parts were found, but perhaps in addition to that the D A said they might talk about a plea but only after that?

 

[MassGuy]

Another option I have not seen mentioned as to the reason for the delay. Perhaps the DA said that they would not consider a plea agreement at all until after the end of searching the landfill. I was thinking perhaps he was just delaying it to see if body parts were found, but perhaps in addition to that the D A said they might talk about a plea but only after that?

I think there’s a small chance that they are searching the landfill because PF told them where to look.

I’ve seen it done two ways:

Give us the body, and we’ll talk deal.

Give us the body, and we won’t reveal how we found it.

I think the former is far more likely than the latter, as the latter confirms KK’s account, and would prove fatal to his defense.

I still don’t think he has told them anything though, but you never know.

 

[margarita25]

I think there’s a small chance that they are searching the landfill because PF told them where to look.

I’ve seen it done two ways:

Give us the body, and we’ll talk deal.

Give us the body, and we won’t reveal how we found it.

I think the former is far more likely than the latter, as the latter confirms KK’s account, and would prove fatal to his defense.

I still don’t think he has told them anything though, but you never know.

I doubt he’s told them squat, moo. But you never know. Wow we have been surprised here many times haven’t we?!

The only thing I could see is maaaaaybe him trying to concoct some theory to counterblame.

 

[GordianKnot]

I doubt he’s told them squat, moo. But you never know. Wow we have been surprised here many times haven’t we?!

The only thing I could see is maaaaaybe him trying to concoct some theory to counterblame.

I don't think PF has told them anything.
He made up his mind that he ain't talking.
He's stubborn, and rigid, and inflexible.
He thinks he can outsmart everybody, on account of he's a genius.

I don't think DA Dan would play "Let's Make a Deal" with both KK and PF.
That would be pretty weak, especially given the fact that the circumstantial case against PF is so strong.

There would have been no reason for the DA to give KK such a sweetie beauty of a deal if he was just going to straight deal with PF.

DA May can get the conviction without KB's remains.
I don't think he'd offer a deal to PF in exchange for the location of KB's remains unless KB's parents were in agreement with it. They've already expressed dismay over the deal KK received.

JMO.

 

[gitana1]

Thanks Margarita25, helps to know the delays are typical. We are all anxious to see Justice for Kelsey, but I guess it takes what it takes, time wise.

It had mostly caught my attention since it was the defense who made the postponement request.

“The arraignment was postponed at the request of defense counsel because all of the evidence in the case has not been tested.”
Arraignment postponed for Patrick Frazee in the alleged killing of fiancée Kelsey Berreth

That's just due diligence on the part of the defense counsel. It indicates nothing about the "real murderer".

 

[susiQ]

Yes, two pairs were taken - items 48 and 49. Both Khombu, size 12 and 12M.

CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Media, Maps and Timelines *NO DISCUSSION*

#53. ........Waste management invoices for SF. Maybe she dumped the melted tote? OR, PF dumped it and the invoice was made out to the property owner, SF.

 

[ajaylee]

I'm hoping he disposed of all the remains, including the water trough, together. If so, I think (hope) the trough should be reasonably visible and intact as they dig through the landfill.

 

[skyedaze]

I also believe that is why he decided to kill her in such a brutal and bloody way. He was able to punish both of the women he was angry with. There is no way it required so many brutal hits with a baseball bat to kill KB. He could have accomplished that without leaving a bloody mess throughout the house.

OMG so true...punish KK and KB at the same time. I really think you are correct here.

 

[susiQ]

I'm hoping he disposed of all the remains, including the water trough, together. If so, I think (hope) the trough should be reasonably visible and intact as they dig through the landfill.

With regard to the metal trough, waste management transfer facilities usually have a separate area for metal that is then sold to metal recyclers. At least that's what happens where I live.

 

[Ccging]

Does anyone recall if candles were on the list of the items KK cleaned and disposed of?

Just struck me as odd that since they were part of PF’s story to KK she did not mention finding or getting rid of them.

Were they something PF disposed of? Or they were the one thing no blood got on?

KK making no mention of getting rid of them makes me think they never existed. IMO

 

[MassGuy]

Does anyone recall if candles were on the list of the items KK cleaned and disposed of?

Just struck me as odd that since they were part of PF’s story to KK she did not mention finding or getting rid of them.

Were they something PF disposed of? Or they were the one thing no blood got on?

KK making no mention of getting rid of them makes me think they never existed. IMO

Maybe they didn’t exist, as you say.

There was no mention of them being disposed of by KK.

Kelsey being blindfolded under the guise of guessing candle scents, doesn’t mean that PF actually had candles in his possession.

 

[tmar]

First of all, if a guy ever TOLD me to "clean up a mess" of any kind, the first words that would fly out of my mouth would be to tell him to pound salt if he created it.
But secondly, knowing that blood has a life of it's own in any violent crime, unless I was suddenly struck stupid, I wouldn't even attempt to clean up blood.
The fact that KK was a nurse, she knew that. I still shake my head at her stupidity.
IMHO

If KK put a match to the place, surely the blood evidence would have been cleaned up.
This would have been an immediate smart response.
However now we have evidence throughout the home, which implicates KB being murdered there.
MOO.