CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #52 *ARREST*

[MassGuy]

Your post made me think of something I hadn't before.

Could PF's touch DNA be on the ladder used to put the tote on the haystack?

Could bits of the hay have been found on his boots or on any of the clothes at the ranchette?

Several Forensic Files episodes have shown how specific the DNA is in plantlife, even showing exactly what time of year it grew.

I don’t think the hay is related, but you might be on to something with “touch DNA” being on an object like that ladder, or the tractor he used.

Now, that would only be important if it had no business being there.

The problem with that, is he had to have been familiar with that barn, and been there in the past.

So potentially, something like that could be explained away.

I do think it’s likely that we are talking about DNA evidence like that though.

 

[MemPat]

Yep. What you've just cited is a whole passel of indisputable truths.

Believe it or not, all of that's likely just the tip of the iceberg.

There's also all the evidence we haven't heard about yet, and likely won't hear about until the trial, eg., the plethora of forensic evidence collected at both KB's and PF's, PF's computer searches, voicemails, text messages, and/or email messages he sent to KK r/t his soliciting her to murder KB, etc.

The evidence we know of to date is damning to PF.

The evidence we find out about at trial will be infinitely more damning to PF.

The evidence is what will seal his fate, because the evidence is what proves him to be guilty.


JMO.

Wouldn't this be a great bedtime story?

Mommy, tell me about the bad cowboy and the evidence we haven't heard yet.

Edited to spell a simple word right!

 

[GordianKnot]

Wouldn't this be a great bedtime story?

Mommy, tell me about the bad cowboy and the evidence we haven't hear yet.

Good News!
They already made it into a movie.
It's called, "The NeverEnding Story."

JMO.

 

[Moma J]

I have in all my life never seen two people that can lie more than KK and PF can. I don’t think they either one know what the truth is. MOO
Thank the stars in heaven they gave that sweet Baby K to her maternal grands. I just get so torn up thinking about PF or his mom ever getting to see or hold that baby again. Hopefully this will never come to pass. Prayers for sweet Baby K to have a wonderful Easter and a blessed life.

 

[TheVic]

I concur. Kelsey didn't drink it.

I wouldn't drink anything that came from a stranger.

 

[ab01]

Fortunately, stupidity is not a defense.

Intelligent people make bad criminals; people like PF, make terrible criminals.

You’re right, “saying he did so, does not make it true.”

The evidence saying that he did so, certainly seems to prove that to be the case.

Perhaps a lone cell phone transmission at a single moment in time can be wrong.

But when you’re talking about two days of phone locations, two days of cell phone interactions, then that is astronomically unlikely.

He lied about when he last saw Kelsey, this fact is not in dispute.

He told lies to Doss and law enforcement, this fact is not in dispute.

Discount the phone locations and what are you left with:

Two days of phone calls and texts with a dead woman.

Still damning.

Yep I’ll add that a person with PF deception skills are the easiest criminals to spot. You don’t hid a crime by trying to paint an elaborate picture map for LE to follow. Most successful criminals istead try to make it appear that there are very few clues to weather a crime was even committed. Often times the less a murderer does to try to cover their tracks, the better off they are. Fortunately it’s human nature for people to plan a big cover story and try to manipulate evidence, which more times than not leads LE to their front door. Moo

 

[girlhasnoname]

You see, that's the thing! KK pointed out other "similar" black plastic totes scattered around the franchette on her "walk around" with LE on the 21st. During the preliminary hearing Steigerwald asked Slater (I believe) if he knew what PF keeps his tools in, or something to that effect. PF was spotted with a black plastic tote with silver handles in the bed of his truck on video. Is it possible he put another black tote with KB in it into to bed of KB's truck and took it to Nash Ranch? The neighbour said she saw all three vehicles there. Did PF get there first before KB got back from Safeway and it was HER red truck that was parked behind the other two vehicles (PF's red truck and her green Toyota) horizontally? Did PF go to Walmart with baby K in KB's truck and then return to play "guess the scent?"

I think I'm losing my mind, slowly though.

PF was driving his own truck during his trip to Walmart. They originally asked Walmart loss prevention about KB's truck and it wasn't seen on video. Later LE remembered that one of the trucks they did have on video during that time was a Toyota so they went back and that's when they found the video of PF.

 

[ilovechili]

I wonder what KK did to celebrate her birthday in style the other day. Maybe she borrowed a car, a wig and a gun and went shopping for a new track phone and drove 800 miles RT to reminisce about the good old days. She stops at Sonic, she drives by KB's and remembers the thrill and addictive rush of taking poison coffee, laying in wait, playing Merry Maid. She stops at Nash Ranch and wishes PF could be with her having a romp on those hay bales. Then heads for the ranchette, surely she is still welcome there...

33, older and wiser now I am sure. I bet she spent the day feeling guilt and remorse that she can celebrate birthdays yet and KB will never have another birthday nor even see her 30s. I bet she spends time on remorse that Baby K only had her mother through her first birthday and no more. Thanks to her as much as PF.

I will wisely stop there well other than to say did she get her birthday cake and eat it too? Did it have 33 scented candles on it? She shuts her eyes, makes a birthday wish and tries to guess the scents... And... (well fill in your own ending to that sentence, I have mine)... Getting her birthday cake and eating it too pretty much describes her plea deal. Was there a file in her cake? Because one day she will need one...

And if there is any justice, it will be for decades longer than a year or two... One day...

From two little peas in a pod to two murdering evil people in separate prison cells for life, now that would be sweeter than birthday cake.

 

[Kapua]

Yep. What you've just cited is a whole passel of indisputable truths.

Believe it or not, all of that's likely just the tip of the iceberg.

There's also all the evidence we haven't heard about yet, and likely won't hear about until the trial, eg., the plethora of forensic evidence collected at both KB's and PF's, PF's computer searches, voicemails, text messages, and/or email messages he sent to KK r/t his soliciting her to murder KB, etc.

The evidence we know of to date is damning to PF.

The evidence we find out about at trial will be infinitely more damning to PF.

The evidence is what will seal his fate, because the evidence is what proves him to be guilty.


JMO.

There may also be other video camera evidence. I'm thinking that may be what let LE to the landfill. And PF's truck may or may not be equipped with GPS - I don't remember if I checked that. There's unquestionably more evidence to come, and it's all going to point straight at PF, IMHO. He's delusional if he thinks he'll get a not guilty verdict.

 

[Kapua]

Yep I’ll add that a person with PF deception skills are the easiest criminals to spot. You don’t hid a crime by trying to paint an elaborate picture map for LE to follow. Most successful criminals istead try to make it appear that there are very few clues to weather a crime was even committed. Often times the less a murderer does to try to cover their tracks, the better off they are. Fortunately it’s human nature for people to plan a big cover story and try to manipulate evidence, which more times than not leads LE to their front door. Moo

The thing is, most people are killed by someone close to them. Every perp or potential perp has to know that the police will eventually come around and start asking questions. Now, us normal folks would not seriously think of murder as a solution to any problem. But for those evil folks who do, you are right, the simpler the story, the better. Considering that it's very difficult these days to prove you were somewhere else with technology everywhere, the better alternative would be to work out problems like the rest of us do. MOO

 

[susiQ]

PF was driving his own truck during his trip to Walmart. They originally asked Walmart loss prevention about KB's truck and it wasn't seen on video. Later LE remembered that one of the trucks they did have on video during that time was a Toyota so they went back and that's when they found the video of PF.

Thank you! I either missed that or just forgot

ed:delete fragment of a previous post

 

[girlhasnoname]

Thank you! I either missed that or just forgot

ed:delete fragment of a previous post

No worries SQ, it's been a convoluted mess to keep straight.

 

[girlhasnoname]

There may also be other video camera evidence. I'm thinking that may be what let LE to the landfill. And PF's truck may or may not be equipped with GPS - I don't remember if I checked that. There's unquestionably more evidence to come, and it's all going to point straight at PF, IMHO. He's delusional if he thinks he'll get a not guilty verdict.

I still swear that something in that 'dump' PF did with those 2 guys at WM drop off had some kind of evidence. They researched KBs townhome a day or so after that IIRC.

PF is dumb enough IMO to sit in his white truck and have his friends dispose of something he never thought could be tied to him.

 

[susiQ]

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth

4:20 p.m.

"..........
Slater said nothing that belonged to Berreth was found in Frazee’s home, nor have any of her items been found in his trash at this point."

Doesn't this contradict the SW as they found a DNA kit addressed to KB and also the Swarovski Christmas ornament that was sent to KB's residence by CB2?

I still swear that something in that 'dump' PF did with those 2 guys at WM drop off had some kind of evidence. They researched KBs townhome a day or so after that IIRC.

PF is dumb enough IMO to sit in his white truck and have his friends dispose of something he never thought could be tied to him.

He's stupid and arrogant for sure, but I'm thinking he got rid of that tote before he took his buddies with him in his very "public" appearance. Listed in the items taken from his home were "receipts" (plural) from the waste managment facility in SF's name. He could easily have dumped the tote during the 10 days prior to eyes being on him. Also, with all the cell and GPS data, LE would know what days he frequented the area close to the transfer station. Then again, we're dealing with PF and he might just have been stupid enough to include his friends in dumping the tote. And goodness knows, they are probably State witnesses now. JMO

eta: I messed up this post. It was supposed to be separate posts.

 

[ajaylee]

I'm inclined to think that PF got rid of the remains of the fire before the episode at the landfill with the two guys. I think he got rid of it within a day or so of KK leaving - as soon as it was cool and solid enough to move.

That whole trip to the landfill seems staged, but I can't for the life of me think what PF would have hoped to accomplish if that's true - and why the two other guys went along with it.

If he just wanted to play games with LE, I get that, but why would two people he knew also go along with it?

"Hey, guys, LE is hassling me about my ex, so how about you guys meet me at the landfill and unload my trailer load of junk? I'll sit in the truck while you do it. Good fun, huh?"

I'm having trouble understanding what that was all about.

 

[ajaylee]

One thing that concerns me about the landfill. IIRC, PF told KK or his earlier gf that he knew places where he could dump a body and no one would ever find it.

I believe him. I think he does know plenty of places.

So why did he tell KK to dump the body in a dumpster? Why mess around with a landfill or even the river? Heck, he probably knows his 'surrogate' father's property well enough to have sneaked out there and buried the remains in an isolated corner - or dumped them down an old mine shaft.

I have to assume this is another example of PF screwing up by trying to be too clever.

Does anyone know if cadaver dogs alert on 'cremains'?

 

[susiQ]

Slater: PF and KK drove back to the townhome to get PF’s truck.

It might help if you gave a link as to where you heard that KK and PF went to pick up a truck at KB condo.

I have never heard that before.

Yup.

There are going to be multiple delays, multiple motions, and I wouldn’t be shocked if PF fired his lawyers down the road.

That would push things out even further.

If we’re confused now, it’s not going to get better with time.

Best to catch it early.

Lol. Slater said PF and KK returned to the townhome on 11/24 to get PF's truck. It's on Tippy's timeline - I'll see if I can find a link. MOO

Courtesy of @SandyQLS, we have a link!! Thanks Sandy!
Thread#39 page88 post#1756

Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #39 *ARREST*

Alexis Dominguez KRDO‏ @alexisdomm
Slater: Frazee and Krystal drove back to the townhome to get Frazee's truck.#KelseyBerreth#PatrickFrazee

 

[Hatch]

I don’t think the hay is related, but you might be on to something with “touch DNA” being on an object like that ladder, or the tractor he used.

Now, that would only be important if it had no business being there.

The problem with that, is he had to have been familiar with that barn, and been there in the past.

So potentially, something like that could be explained away.

I do think it’s likely that we are talking about DNA evidence like that though.

KB blood evidence would be a red flag if they found it at Momma's house , on that swifter mop . Did KK go to Ma's and get those cleaning supplies before she cleaned , or did she bring those with her and just leave them with Ma?
Did PF purchase them at Walmart?

 

[MassGuy]

KB blood evidence would be a red flag if they found it at Momma's house , on that swifter mop . Did KK go to Ma's and get those cleaning supplies before she cleaned , or did she bring those with her and just leave them with Ma?
Did PF purchase them at Walmart?

Damn straight. If those cleaning supplies that tested “positive presumptive” for blood have Kelsey’s DNA on them, then that is damning.

KK brought cleaning supplies with her, but could have potentially left them at the Frazee residence when she was done.

 

[Hatch]

Damn straight. If those cleaning supplies that tested “positive presumptive” for blood have Kelsey’s DNA on them, then that is damning.

KK brought cleaning supplies with her, but could have potentially left them at the Frazee residence when she was done.

I bet she left them at Ma's wherever they came from she would not have taken them back with her. If that is what happened she had her dunce hat on after cleaning.