CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #6

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  • #961
A - has been discussed a bit.
B and C I haven't seen discussed, but perhaps I missed it.

B is intriguing.

It’d be the same as moving a yacht or sailboat. She could have had an offer to fly in to a small airstrip to pack up a camp, or to check out a plane to move...a guy with a cast or reason he can’t pilot it out (ted bundy). Or a fake repo situation. Make some extra cash.

Or heck, she might have discovered one of her students was a drug runner or something. Or was offered to do a questionable flight for big bucks. There are lots of small airstrips out there...
 
  • #962
Correct. Let’s just hope they found something.
No, I hope they didn’t find anything. I do not want to learn that Kelsey met her fate at the hands of someone she loved and trusted. I hope they clear this guy so they can move on to finding Kelsey.
 
  • #963
Maybe she didn't want to marry him!

I think you are spot on

Women have an ability to sense things.

Surely, in such a small county, she crossed paths with his old love interests. Some may have been his Farrier clients.

It would have made marrying him uncomfortable, to say the least.

In my opinion, she was waiting for him ... she could only do so much
 
  • #964
Maybe she didn't want to marry him!
We don't even know how long they were together or what the circumstances of their relationship were before she got pregnant. My guess is it wasn't long. Imo
 
  • #965
Wish we had a local that would belly up to the bar and have a chat! You know there's got to be a lot of conversation about this going on locally.

Exactly!
 
  • #966
  • #967
I don't know what to think about this, doesn't sound like they found anything that will lead them to Kelsey. Seems they would have taken all the time they were given looking. What do you all think? Found something and are testing it or didn't find anything?
They found nothing....MOO
 
  • #968
Well, my observations of law enforcement activity so far is: They have the Police Chief, not just front-and-center, but alone. While there are other agencies, notably the CBI and the FBI none of them have a visible presence with the exception of the CBI woman who is facilitating media. This could mean that Woodland Park Police have a very good handle on this case. The Police Chief is seemingly projecting confidence.

However, all of the actions directly aimed at PF, the first press conference, getting the media to hound all over him, trotting out the DA to speak a few words at the second press conference, talking about trying to find ways to take his child away, even making sure the media gets to see an excavator being brought in are all aimed at trying to get PF to talk to investigators without his attorney. When the Police Chief said he wanted PF to come and talk with the investigators he meant exactly that - not PF and his attorney. If they need PF to make their case then law enforcement doesn't have enough to solve this. If law enforcement has the evidence I suspect then this is a situation where they need PF to give up where Kelsey is.

We will see if the search where PF lives turns up anything at all. If it doesn't, to me it means that it was all about posturing and trying to provoke some reaction. Maybe they expected he might try to run or something else, as I am sure he is being watched. I can imagine if law enforcement can find a way to get a judge to entertain allowing a court case to proceed in trying to take PF's daughter away it's sole purpose would be to force PF to choose between his daughter or speaking to investigators without his attorney - and not have a single thing to do with the safety and well-being of K.

If making a case depends on PF confessing then this case may never get resolved. If they need PF in order to find Kelsey they may have to cut a huge deal to do so (say, 15 years for Manslaughter) rather than be able to get anything near the maximum in order to do so. It could very well be the case that he holds all the aces in the deck, whether anyone likes it or not.

The biggest problem is taking anything to trial if they don't find Kelsey. Probably a good to very good chance of getting a conviction but not so much on learning where Kelsey is. The next biggest problem is if Kelsey is found in Idaho (or even in Washington) and law enforcement doesn't have evidence of PF and/or a co-conspirator being there as well.

PF is in the jackpot seat. Anyone who follows cases knows this. There is no mystery. It should surprise no one at all if he is arrested.

My best guess is that law enforcement does have evidence - perhaps phone location records or video - it will show that PF had been to Kelsey's house more than once on Thanksgiving rather than the one time he told them about or cadaver dogs indicated within her house.

One critical fact I would like to know is whether PF actually had a key to Kelsey's house or there was a hidden key outside somewhere. Kelsey's brother was able to get in, so either he had a key, knew where a key was in order to get in, or a locksmith was brought in to open it - I doubt law enforcement forced a door.

What holds me back from 100 percent certainty is that there is some sort of elephant in the room concerning what the true status of the relationship between PF and Kelsey was. Every indication, to me, is that this was a completely busted relationship, that this isn't a recent development in the relationship, and from all appearances none of Kelsey's family knew this (best case) or are not being truthful about this (worst case).

We haven't heard anything like "When Kelsey, PF and K all came up to Idaho for a visit this past summer ..." or "Last Memorial Day weekend we were all together ..." or "It was only 6 months ago when my husband and I (Kelsey's parents) had come down to see all of them and ...". Nothing of the sort. I find that strange. There was one comment - perhaps spoken in an interview, not sure - where it was mentioned that if Kelsey was going to go see family she would have brought K. So, it seems likely that has happened before where at Kelsey and K had gone visiting Kelsey's family. But not one word if that ever included PF. This is what concerns me. Either they didn't know or Kelsey wasn't truthful but even more so Kelsey's family had no interest in knowing the father of their grandchild and alleged future son-in-law.

Getting rid of the elephant in the room would clear this up for me tremendously. If the relationship wasn't completely broken or recently broken then 100 percent PF. If it was completely broken and that PF and Kelsey even had been dating other people then all bets are off.

Why this can't be cleared up and why when asked a question that gets at the state of the relationship - asked in the last press conference about this in context of the "exchange of the child" - the Police Chief said this was part of the investigation gives me pause. Quite frankly I don't understand it, except that if this were a broken relationship and they were dating others or at least could be dating others then it would raise questions toward law enforcement of why the focus on the ex and if they are considering other suspects - especially if the relationship has been broken for a long time. Certainly, whatever the relationship status was will all come out in court, as part of any defense, should this case get to trial.

It is possible this elephant exists as part of some effort to get custody of K voluntarily from PF but I don't see how that would work given both the unmistakable distance between Kelsey's family and PF and the Police Chief saying it is part of the investigation.

I hope this can all be wrapped up quickly and Kelsey's parents can have their daughter back.

Apologies for being long winded.
Well, my observations of law enforcement activity so far is: They have the Police Chief, not just front-and-center, but alone. While there are other agencies, notably the CBI and the FBI none of them have a visible presence with the exception of the CBI woman who is facilitating media. This could mean that Woodland Park Police have a very good handle on this case. The Police Chief is seemingly projecting confidence.

However, all of the actions directly aimed at PF, the first press conference, getting the media to hound all over him, trotting out the DA to speak a few words at the second press conference, talking about trying to find ways to take his child away, even making sure the media gets to see an excavator being brought in are all aimed at trying to get PF to talk to investigators without his attorney. When the Police Chief said he wanted PF to come and talk with the investigators he meant exactly that - not PF and his attorney. If they need PF to make their case then law enforcement doesn't have enough to solve this. If law enforcement has the evidence I suspect then this is a situation where they need PF to give up where Kelsey is.

We will see if the search where PF lives turns up anything at all. If it doesn't, to me it means that it was all about posturing and trying to provoke some reaction. Maybe they expected he might try to run or something else, as I am sure he is being watched. I can imagine if law enforcement can find a way to get a judge to entertain allowing a court case to proceed in trying to take PF's daughter away it's sole purpose would be to force PF to choose between his daughter or speaking to investigators without his attorney - and not have a single thing to do with the safety and well-being of K.

If making a case depends on PF confessing then this case may never get resolved. If they need PF in order to find Kelsey they may have to cut a huge deal to do so (say, 15 years for Manslaughter) rather than be able to get anything near the maximum in order to do so. It could very well be the case that he holds all the aces in the deck, whether anyone likes it or not.

The biggest problem is taking anything to trial if they don't find Kelsey. Probably a good to very good chance of getting a conviction but not so much on learning where Kelsey is. The next biggest problem is if Kelsey is found in Idaho (or even in Washington) and law enforcement doesn't have evidence of PF and/or a co-conspirator being there as well.

PF is in the jackpot seat. Anyone who follows cases knows this. There is no mystery. It should surprise no one at all if he is arrested.

My best guess is that law enforcement does have evidence - perhaps phone location records or video - it will show that PF had been to Kelsey's house more than once on Thanksgiving rather than the one time he told them about or cadaver dogs indicated within her house.

One critical fact I would like to know is whether PF actually had a key to Kelsey's house or there was a hidden key outside somewhere. Kelsey's brother was able to get in, so either he had a key, knew where a key was in order to get in, or a locksmith was brought in to open it - I doubt law enforcement forced a door.

What holds me back from 100 percent certainty is that there is some sort of elephant in the room concerning what the true status of the relationship between PF and Kelsey was. Every indication, to me, is that this was a completely busted relationship, that this isn't a recent development in the relationship, and from all appearances none of Kelsey's family knew this (best case) or are not being truthful about this (worst case).

We haven't heard anything like "When Kelsey, PF and K all came up to Idaho for a visit this past summer ..." or "Last Memorial Day weekend we were all together ..." or "It was only 6 months ago when my husband and I (Kelsey's parents) had come down to see all of them and ...". Nothing of the sort. I find that strange. There was one comment - perhaps spoken in an interview, not sure - where it was mentioned that if Kelsey was going to go see family she would have brought K. So, it seems likely that has happened before where at Kelsey and K had gone visiting Kelsey's family. But not one word if that ever included PF. This is what concerns me. Either they didn't know or Kelsey wasn't truthful but even more so Kelsey's family had no interest in knowing the father of their grandchild and alleged future son-in-law.

Getting rid of the elephant in the room would clear this up for me tremendously. If the relationship wasn't completely broken or recently broken then 100 percent PF. If it was completely broken and that PF and Kelsey even had been dating other people then all bets are off.

Why this can't be cleared up and why when asked a question that gets at the state of the relationship - asked in the last press conference about this in context of the "exchange of the child" - the Police Chief said this was part of the investigation gives me pause. Quite frankly I don't understand it, except that if this were a broken relationship and they were dating others or at least could be dating others then it would raise questions toward law enforcement of why the focus on the ex and if they are considering other suspects - especially if the relationship has been broken for a long time. Certainly, whatever the relationship status was will all come out in court, as part of any defense, should this case get to trial.

It is possible this elephant exists as part of some effort to get custody of K voluntarily from PF but I don't see how that would work given both the unmistakable distance between Kelsey's family and PF and the Police Chief saying it is part of the investigation.

I hope this can all be wrapped up quickly and Kelsey's parents can have their daughter back.

Apologies for being long winded.
Once CB put “fiancé” out there, PF couldn’t contradict it in the media because he looks like he is lying to cover up for his actions. But he and his lawyer have not confirmed engagement. Other than the mom and MSM parroting her words, nobody says they were engaged. Only that they “share a child.” <modsnip: not victim friendly>
 
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  • #969
Heads up... we will be moving to a new thread when the thread count for this thread reaches 1000.
 
  • #970
[BBM]
I don't think KB was reluctant to live on a farm as she is no city girl according to recent report. In fact, her mother stated during interviews that Kelsey had hoped that she and PF could buy their own ranch but PF's business was not doing as well as they'd hoped:

Kelsey grew up on a farm in Moses Lake, Washington and went to a private Christian school before attending Big Bend Community College for her aviation training, according to one local report with iFIBER One News.

In 2016, Kelsey moved to Colorado, where Frazee’s family lives. When and how the couple met remains unclear.


Kelsey Berreth: Police Search Fiancé’s Ranch In Hunt For Missing Colorado Mom

Oh, I agree. I think she would live on a farm, I just don't know if she wanted to marry and live on a farm where PF is not the property owner, per previous posts here, and where his mother also lives. That's what I meant by "his situation" ;).
 
  • #971
True and SW had a circle of friends, neighbors and family that were willing to talk to the media from the very beginning. Kelsey didn't even have someone close enough to report her missing. Really sad to me.
In the very beginning SW's friends were talking, but then it stopped, as instructed by LE. She had a huge trove of friends and lived in a neighborhood with people all around her with dorrbell cameras. I think KB's world has been much different. I do think KB's freinds and co-workers, neighbors, etc were/are being asked to keep quiet as to not impede the investigation. But I do not beleive there are very many of them. The time period of no one reporting her missing, however, is very sad. I do not understand this at all.
 
  • #972
  • #973
We don't even know how long they were together or what the circumstances of their relationship were before she got pregnant. My guess is it wasn't long. Imo
Yep! An oops baby, she's a pilot, which IMO is pretty cool/interesting, he's stuck on the ranch...I don't think she was 'waiting' around for him, she was compromising as much as she could to share custody, and sounds like he did more childcare, sounds like a sweet deal to me!
 
  • #974
Kind of odd that we haven’t seen any pictures of her and her mom together, or her mom and the baby, etc.... just realized that
 
  • #975
  • #976
Can someone explain what liability/responsibility LE or anyone would have to help PF’s mother recoup costs for damage done to HER property during search (since he only lives/works there)? Especially if he is ultimately cleared, this seems like a lot to overcome for her.

Compensation is theoretically covered by the 5th Amendment, so presumably the landowner wouldn't have to file a tort claim. However:

"Despite this [5th Amendment] protection, many courts have denied takings claims made by innocent third party landowners when police officers caused damage to their property during the course of executing their official duties. These courts held that the damage was not for a "public use" in the narrow sense, and have refused to analyze the claims undertakings jurisprudence. This narrow view of "public use" ignores the fact that society as a whole benefits from the police activity, including any resulting damage to property, while the innocent, individual owner alone is forced to bear the burden."

https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/...com/&httpsredir=1&article=1382&context=wmborj
 
  • #977
High school friends maybe, but if Bend CC is the only college she attended... I was a community college student in the 90's. Traditionally community colleges have been comprised of commuters, and don't always have much of a social life. They may have groups, but people choose these colleges because they have other things going on in their lives and need to be near those lives locally in their, well, communities. Though I did make friends who knew and liked me enough to invite me to their weddings and farewell parties, they weren't specifically "friends from my program", and were "friends I met at the same time in the lounge" type of friends. I can see someone graduating from a CC and not making any friends along the way, honestly, especially if they are introverted.
 
  • #978
Once CB put “fiancé” out there, PF couldn’t contradict it in the media because he looks like he is lying to cover up for his actions. But he and his lawyer have not confirmed engagement. Other than the mom and MSM parroting her words, nobody says they were engaged. Only that they “share a child.” <modsnip: not victim friendly>

Hmmmm. Why didn't PF report KB missing?
 
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  • #979
Once CB put “fiancé” out there, PF couldn’t contradict it in the media because he looks like he is lying to cover up for his actions. But he and his lawyer have not confirmed engagement. Other than the mom and MSM parroting her words, nobody says they were engaged. Only that they “share a child.” <modsnip: not victim friendly>

Hmmmm. Why didn't PF report KB missing?


Yes, there might be nothing sinister about this. Truly, the fiancé narrative could be her trying to get family off her back. These two could have been co-parenting and very happy with the situation. The relationship might have broken down. So, to keep family from bashing her with the moral high road, she might have given them lame excuses. The cattle prices are low, this or that.

Heck, this relationship could have broken down awhile ago...she could have been on tinder or a dating site. This is not bad or unreasonable. She might have said, I’ll be gone for a couple days. Hence didnt report it. By the time he did, he looked really bad. My understanding is there’s a grandmother who is not doing well, so maybe she didn’t want to hurt nana before she passed. My thoughts...
 
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  • #980
Yep! An oops baby, she's a pilot, which IMO is pretty cool/interesting, he's stuck on the ranch...I don't think she was 'waiting' around for him, she was compromising as much as she could to share custody, and sounds like he did more childcare, sounds like a sweet deal to me!
I'm not sure if the planning of the marriage came before or after the baby, or if at all, really. Imo
 
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