CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #58

[Ultra Violet]

(Snipped for brevity)
SF noticed when she was pregnant with Kaylee.
This is how it got brought up.
CB was talking about SF finding out KB was pregnant
Viehman: Pregnant with Kaylee, correct?
CB: Yes, but KB was pregnant the year before but lost it around Thanksgiving.
No mention if SF knew about first pregnancy.

Thanks for your excellent reporting GoJacks! Would love to come down and join you in the future for KK testimony but those courtroom seats sound like murder on modern backs and bums! Ow!

The first pregnancy is such a surprise to us but not uncommon for any young mother, let alone one under so much stress and so many life events / changes. So sorry the F family so badly failed KB. They literally kicked her when she was already down

Was there a mention of how long KB was pregnant the first time?

And, wow, she lost a baby around Thanksgiving and was then murdered the next Thanksgiving?

Even if the prosecution does not specifically connect the dots for them, surely the jury will pick up on that?

Thanks again for supplementing all the MSM reports! You rock!

jmo

 

[Niner]

Thank you ALL and especially GoJacks for ALL this info on what happened in court yesterday!

I take from reading here that @GoJacks - won't be back in court until next Friday??
No one else here that can take over?? LOL!

 

[oviedo]

I don’t know that I agree with this. The alternative to allowing a mother of a young baby to leave an area with the young baby is to take the baby from her and place the child with dad. You can’t force a parent not to move. All you can do is take the kid from the parent who does so.

But if Kelsey had a lack of family support in CO and needed to be closer to work, I believe she could’ve prevailed depending on the circumstances. Move away cases are not uncommon and it’s not true that the courts usually don’t allow it. Every state has different rules but CO like most is governed ultimately by the best interest of the child standard.

What’s more important is what PF believed.
I’m betting he talked to a family law attorney before he killed Kelsey.

From early on, as I’ve posted before, I got the sense that this was an insular, dysfunctional family. PF lived with his mama and her little man could do no wrong. I said earlier that I thought they are the type to view children as possessions and not part of the other person who made the child. I think Ma Frazee believed this grandchild was hers and they wanted KB out of the picture with no control or influence and no ability to move the child away or raise her.

Couldn’t agree with you more

 

[Simply Southern]

Cheryl Berreth struggled to contain her emotions on the stand as she described her daughter's upbringing in Washington state and a lifelong desire to become a pilot. Kelsey Berreth moved to Colorado within a year after starting a relationship with Patrick Frazee. Kelsey worked in Grand Junction, Falcon and Pueblo as a flight instructor. Cheryl describes her daughter's relationship with the Frazee family as never being good, with the family viewing Kelsey as a "hooker" because she would arrive at the family property late at night due to her work hours.

According to the mother, the relationship worsened after Kelsey told the family about her pregnancy in the summer of 2017. She explained how her daughter was thrown out of the house and forced to move in with a coworker. Fast forward a year later when Frazee and Berreth's daughter had just turned one year old, and Cheryl Berreth describes her daughter visiting a clinic in California to help address mineral deficiency. Soon after, Kelsey started working less to spend more time with her child. She and Frazee continued to live separately.

Mother testifies about strained relationship and concern for her missing daughter

Wise move, ending the day with Cheryl's emotional testimony.

 

[MassGuy]

Wise move, ending the day with Cheryl's emotional testimony.

Definitely. She was the perfect first witness, and the jury will have all weekend to think about her testimony.

She’ll be back on the stand on Monday morning, and they’ll get to hear more from her.

 

[Ultra Violet]

pf seems quite vengeful.

it didn't come as a surprise to me that he was begging kk the night before she married her husband not to.
imo kk was his 'one' and he was punishing her for marrying another man.

think there might have been a complicated space when PF had pregnated KB and KK suddenly made an appearance.

moo

The image of PF begging KK not to get married is straight out of those old Harlequin romance novels, “Cowboy at a Wedding” Edition. (Thanks, Lance!) Are those kinds of stories just escapism? Or trashy fiction?

Is this a romantic fantasy / scenario of KKs creation? Or PF being stubborn and losing his claim (or property, as @gitana1 has wisely observed) and and not ever getting over it?

If KK was back in the story around 2016-2017 and had a husband and children at home, did saintly PF intentionally try to have a baby with KB to get back at her? TWICE? Is he even capable of anything outside of caveman behavior?

We have discussed the topic previously, but CBs interviews and now testimony lead me to believe KBs faith and family life would not be aligned with conceiving twice before marriage. Things happen, but does not sound to me like KB was baby crazy. She was interested in having a family, but not in a huge hurry, imo.

And what I know about KK and KB from this case so far, KK seems more likely to be the one that would have a baby to please (or keep) a man. KB was on a career track but wanted to eventually have a family. KK had already done that, outside of PFs control.

Was KK the one doing the pursuing? Or was she the one being pursued?

So far, all we know is that KK traveled from ID to CO for the affair but it is possible PF hooked up with her out on the rodeo circuit if SF did not want any “hookers” in her house. Who chased who?

We may never know the answers to any of this, and if anything comes out of KKs mouth we always have to consider the source. And PF and SF are not great sources either. Again, imho.

I hate that I am typing so many misogynistic things in this post. PF lived in a house (would not call it a home) that was hostile to women outside the F bloodline. We cannot erase the awful truths we are learning about this awful family.

This creepy KB / PF / KK triangle is a big factor in the events that led to KBs death. But the creepy SF / PF / (any woman) triangle was never going to lead to any good either, to be honest.

Future testimony may peel back the layers of the onion, but man, PF is one funky onion. Blech. (Mama Onion is pretty funky, too.)

On one hand, I want to know the whole story, warts and all. On the other hand, I am thinking I will need brain bleach when all is said and done.

All I keep thinking about tonight is the jury. And finding a clear path for justice for Kelsey. And her daughter. And her family and friends.

Any family would be considered absolutely angelic when compared to the F family, but the Berreth family is teaching a masterclass on how to live their life while grieving on a worldwide stage. They have only shown love, bravery, grace, and boundless faith in all of this. They have lost so much and have never played the victim card. What a shining example of how to live and love in the face of such an enormous loss.

So many questions, but do I really want to know the answers? I do know this... through all their words and actions I have learned so much from the Berreth family in the past year.

The F family? Meh. Not so much.

In the end, life is never wrapped up in a tidy bow like the “perfect” endings in paperback fiction. Here’s hoping for hardcover-worthy justice for beautiful Kelsey and her family.


just my opinion...

 

[k-mac]

I was actually surprised by this. I took him as someone who strung KK along and never really cared for any woman. I think mama was the number one woman in his life.

That was my impression as well. I figured that he used her for his own purposes, but there weren’t any romantic type feelings there.

Norman doesn’t need any woman other than Norma.

yes and no imo

PF was kk's 'one' too
but as we know PF is momma's boy.......KK wanted a ring on it and PF found out that if he wasn't gunna ...someone else would.......

all games for this moronic pair of love birds.

looks like their 'timing' was always as odd as they are.

its a travesty a beautiful intelligent loving human being like Kelsey found herself in this snake pit.

I am still riling over Kelsey remaining 'outside' when the presence of PF'S sister was in the house.
who the hell do these people think they are?????
vile and despicable

moo

 

[Ultra Violet]

Ha! I know. It caused confusion because they obliged, and cut it from the article without explanation.

In fairness, I don’t think they had a complete picture of the family tree here, and decided to play it safe.

Is anyone else hoping for the CS Gazette (Lance, are you out there?) to break the fourth wall, put it all back out there and acknowledge that they were manipulated and issue a big, fat correction that spells out all of the gory details after the trial?

 

[oviedo]

I’ve copied @GoJacks excellent reporting to the media thread with links to this thread - I did not want it lost.

CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Media, Maps and Timelines *NO DISCUSSION*

Many thanks for being in the courtroom for us and KB!

 

[BUF]

I’ve copied @GoJacks excellent reporting to the media thread with links to this thread - I did not want it lost.

CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Media, Maps and Timelines *NO DISCUSSION*

Many thanks for being in the courtroom for us and KB!

Thank you for doing this @oviedo it was most helpful after missing so many posts from last night.

And...

Thank you @GoJacks !! It is always so helpful to have a local reporting, especially in this circumstance where we are relying on reporters observations that can vary...and answering our questions!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Oh yes, she was referred to as Krystal Lee in court. I kept having to remember who the h*ll KL was when they abbreviated it on the slideshow.

Perhaps her husband divorced her and she went back to her maiden name afterwards? I assume her divorce is finalized?

 

[PommyMommy]

NOV 1, 2019
Kelsey Berreth murder case: Cheryl Berreth takes the stand, defense says case has "serious foundational issues"
[...]

...After a jury of seven women and five men was selected, prosecutors rolled in more than a dozen binders, each inches thick with the evidence in the case, which has drawn attention from across the country.

[...]

 

[PommyMommy]

Perhaps her husband divorced her and she went back to her maiden name afterwards? I assume her divorce is finalized?

Her husband's last name is Lee. MOO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I gotta admit, I’m kind of annoyed. We got more information from @GoJacks than we did from any reporter in that courtroom.

We heard details that they missed, and more detail on the things they discussed. Here are most of his posts, for those who may have missed them.

Thanks again! I’m sure everyone is very appreciative of your insight.

I pronounce go Jacks a media person, so we can put that entire post you just did within the media thread?.

ETA, great minds think alike Oviedo, thanks for going ahead and doing that! Glad they are saved in the media thread now.

 

[oviedo]

This just breaks my heart to hear that Kelsey was treated this way. Being called a hooker and made to sit on the porch? That is just cold-hearted and cruel. MOO

This more than anything gives true insight to that family. I’m curious if all the PF family treated her like this including the LE brother or if it was just the women ?

 

[oviedo]

I pronounce go Jacks a media person, so we can put that entire post you just did within the media thread?.

I did just that with all his posts

 

[Leader6518]

Yes but concerned citizens (which is all of us here) are able to follow the trial by reviewing what the reporters report. There are several so we should get a pretty compete picture.

This judge doesn’t want the trial to be entertainment. That’s his prerogative. Annoying but not unconstitutional.

I can’t speak for Alethea but I believe in this context the term nosy nelly stands for people who feel entitled to live streamed trials, won’t accept less and believe that failure to deliver every minute of video recorded trial right into their living rooms means the trial is being held in secret and is a violation of constitutional protections.

Lance Benzel‏ @lancebenzel
Lots of varying attitudes toward circumstantial evidence as opposed to direct evidence. Under CO law, they are equal, but several jurors expressed reservations. They were all kicked by my recollection.

12:05 PM - 1 Nov 2019

Lance Benzel‏ @lancebenzel
One juror, for example, said that if reporters don’t have the material they need, they simply “sensationalize.” A former Green Beret said he ignores news accounts in favor of “real intelligence,” leading others to nod in agreement.

12:04 PM - 1 Nov 2019

Lance Benzel‏ @lancebenzel
Defense in their questioning of jurors drilled into whether they can ignore media coverage, eliciting agreement and a healthy share of criticism for reporters.

11:56 AM - 1 Nov 2019

I have to admit, I usually look for documentation and only consider evidence,/documents from LE/DAs. What someone else interprets those documents to say is only as good as their reading and comprehension skills (and their particular opinion). I investigate events for a living and have long ago realized you can't take someone's interpretation of a statement as fact. Trust and verify is my motto

 

[Mimi in London]

I have to wonder if she maybe believed all the lies her brother told her. 'His baby was being abused by the crazy Baby Mama, he doesn't know what to do to save the poor child--mom is negligent and a drunk, it's not his fault...'

I can only think the Frazee family was raised to hate. Hate anything that wasn’t in their experience or their gift to obtain. Hate anyone who had qualities of goodness and gentility, of intelligence and sociability.

The sister et al, IMO, would be only too willing to believe all the cr@p. It makes them feel better about themselves and their truly twisted existence.

 

[susiQ]

I think they are worried someone is going to sniper him...

Hmmm.....If that's the case, they better let KK use the tent too

 

[?mysterian?]

I’ve copied @GoJacks excellent reporting to the media thread with links to this thread - I did not want it lost.

CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Media, Maps and Timelines *NO DISCUSSION*

Many thanks for being in the courtroom for us and KB!

Thanks for doing that! Great idea!