CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #59

[MemPat]

None.
I'm speculating.

 

[Snowsnake]

Well it could have been a ruse, and he started swinging before he ever put a candle in front of her.

I also thought it likely that any candles would have been thrown out by KK.

Thank God she’s lazy.

I am a little late to the game but it sounds like the candle was left on the. Hot plate and the plate was still on. Could this have been a failed arson attempt? Figuring the wax would start a fire and destroy the remaining evidence. Just a thought.

 

[MsBetsy]

He wouldn't have been concerned about where blood went since he wasn't going to clean it up.

The fact that so much was under the hardwood floors makes me think he dismembered her in the living room.

I still suspect the bathroom blood was from him cleaning himself up though I guess we'll know much more when we hear where blood was on the ceiling.

I think the blood in the bathroom was likely from him cleaning up also, as well as the blood he tracked upstairs.
But did LE ever say there was a large amount under the floorboards?
I never got the impression there was so much blood found that they thought he dismembered her.

On the other hand, the defense claims all the jury will see is a few drops of blood found in the condo?
I wonder if they are referring to blood that was not cleaned up.
I imagine that looks different than blood smeared around after cleaning it up, using luminol and Bluestar.

Would that still show a blood splatter pattern? I'm not sure how LE would have been able to determine how many times she was hit without seeing the pattern.

But if he had dismembered the body I would think he would have done it in the bathtub, and the evidence would be in the plumbing.

Imo

 

[MassGuy]

I am a little late to the game but it sounds like the candle was left on the. Hot plate and the plate was still on. Could this have been a failed arson attempt? Figuring the wax would start a fire and destroy the remaining evidence. Just a thought.

Other people have theorized the same, but I’m not a fan of that theory for a lot of reasons.

KB supposedly went off and killed herself, and PF was playing the “delay” game. A fire would have achieved the opposite.

Why clean a house just to burn it down?

In typical arson attempts, there is a reasonable effort made to actually start a fire. A gas line is unplugged, or an accelerant spread, or flammable objects are placed around the fire. That doesn’t appear to have been the case here, as law enforcement never commented to that effect.

I think the logical explanation is that it was lit to mask the smell of cleaning products.

Funny enough, it worked.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I think the best/only chance of PF showing his true colors, would be for him to take the stand.

Not that it has any chance or happening.

I can picture it though. DA May would have Viehman conduct the cross examination, as a woman pushing PF around would enrage him.

“That’s quite the small ranch you have there...”

Please don’t bring up PF in the nude again.

 

[MsBetsy]

I am a little late to the game but it sounds like the candle was left on the. Hot plate and the plate was still on. Could this have been a failed arson attempt? Figuring the wax would start a fire and destroy the remaining evidence. Just a thought.

I think it was more likely to cover the smell of the chemicals in cleaning supplies.
LE stated that when they entered the condo they did not smell bleach or anything that indicated someone had cleaned.
I also don't think KK would have gone to such effort to clean and destroy the evidence if they were just going to burn the place down.

Imo

 

[alpinegirl727]

KB was seen departing Safeway at 12:27pm.

PF was seen at Walmart with baby K between 12:54 - 13:17 hours (PF alleges he collected baby K from KB in the alley behind Condo).

At approx 13:24 hours, PF is seen entering KB's condo.

ARREST APPLICATION/AFFIDAVIT:

View attachment 213360

So he would have came and got the baby at the 12:36 sighting before he took her to Wal Mart, you think?... but then came back to the house.... do we remember what he bought at wal mart?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Correct. Everything fit, up until he returned to the house.

Honest mistake I’m sure.

LOL! Love your new case-specific avatar!

 

[PommyMommy]

I wonder if perhaps he held the bags by his side since he could only be seen by the cameras from the waist down because of the fence.

If questioned he could just say he was taking out garbage.

Maybe he set things down next to Kelsey's car where the cadaver dogs alerted?

So he drove to Nash Ranch and put everything in the tote, storing it on the hay bale.

Lots of leakage from the bags, maybe as he transferred them on top of the bale?

I'm just not criminal enough nor stupid enough to work this out!

MOO

Question for you. I have hesitated to ask because I don't want to be graphic and God knows this case is horrific enough...but are you familiar with the type of tools and the time required to dismember a human body?

I don't want to post links here but if you haven't had the unfortunate experience of reading about it, do a bit of Googling because I think this might clear this up for you.

I mean no offense, whatsoever. MOO

 

[MemPat]

I think the blood in the bathroom was likely from him cleaning up also, as well as the blood he tracked upstairs.
But did LE ever say there was a large amount under the floorboards?
I never got the impression there was so much blood found that they thought he dismembered her.

On the other hand, the defense claims all the jury will see is a few drops of blood found in the condo?
I wonder if they are referring to blood that was not cleaned up.
I imagine that looks different than blood smeared around after cleaning it up, using luminol and Bluestar.

Would that still show a blood splatter pattern? I'm not sure how LE would have been able to determine how many times she was hit without seeing the pattern.

But if he had dismembered the body I would think he would have done it in the bathtub, and the evidence would be in the plumbing.

Imo

I base my opinion on speculation which might buy you a Sonic burger but is not good for much else!

I just keep trying to figure a way for Patrick to get her body out of the condo without showing him carrying her or the tote on camera.

I realize that camera didn't show everything that happened that day, happy as we are with it being a Lie Detector for Patrick.

If we believe KK there was a dramatic bloody crime scene which speaks to more than a few drops.

Luminol and Bluestar will show us the size of the clean-up as will ceiling splatter, if there is any.

I've seen forensic shows that show splatter after Luminol clean-up. I don't know if all crime scenes show up.

I would love to know how long water ran in the condo on Thanksgiving. We could learn how much clean-up of the body and of Patrick took place.

 

[Seattle1]

Are you thinking PF left it on hoping it would start a fire?

I don't think PF would want a fire before clean up. Although I don't think that KK would mind if the place later went up in flames. I can't believe she was never worried about her own DNA being found at the condo.

MOO

 

[Evilactionfigure]

So he would have came and got the baby at the 12:36 sighting before he took her to Wal Mart, you think?... but then came back to the house.... do we remember what he bought at wal mart?

Iirc he bought dog food. Can not recall if there was anything else. And he was in the baby section looking around, and by looking around, I mean looking at the camera.

 

[susiQ]

I’m really looking forward to SF’s testimony because I think there’s more to it than we know thus far.

I don’t really understand why admitting to having knowledge of OR finding the black pipe at the gate, OR testifying to when PF arrived at the Franch OR even having witnessed the bonfire, would necessitate SF to plead the 5th. UNLESS, KK knows something that proves SF KNEW about KB’s murder.

I know I might sound like a broken record, and I’m always willing to admit when I’m wrong (and eat my share of crow) but I’m still not convinced PF didn’t meet up with someone at Walmart. I don’t know why that thought is niggling at me.

I’d like to see SF on the stand right before KK. CB1 and CB2 were the perfect beginning to this trial and SF1 and KK are the perfect end, imho. I’m sure KK will be only to happy to see SF1 go down for something along with her idiot son. Notwithstanding KK is cut from the same cloth but likely doesn’t see it that way.

All MOO!

 

[alpinegirl727]

Question for you. I have hesitated to ask because I don't want to be graphic and God knows this case is horrific enough...but are you familiar with the type of tools required and time required to dismember a human body?

I don't want to post links here but if you haven't had the unfortunate experience of reading about it, do a bit of Googling because I think this might clear this up for you.

I mean no offense, whatsoever. MOO

the type that are loud where neighbors beyond the wall sharing neighbor would hear.....

 

[MemPat]

Question for you. I have hesitated to ask because I don't want to be graphic and God knows this case is horrific enough...but are you familiar with the type of tools required and time required to dismember a human body?

I don't want to post links here but if you haven't had the unfortunate experience of reading about it, do a bit of Googling because I think this might clear this up for you. MOO

PommyMommy, I'm certainly no expert (thankfully); just know what I've seen on forensics shows....which amounts to me being ignorant!

It looks like a disgustingly messy process and I would think, without the right tools, time-consuming.

I have watched hunters dismember a deer with knives and make pretty quick work of it. It made me sick watching it from a block away!

I hope Patrick didn't do that because of Kelsey's family hearing about it.

I hope she was put whole into that tote, not that it makes anything easier for anyone.

 

[MsBetsy]

Didn’t he say they exchanged the baby in the alley? I may be getting his lies mixed up.

Yes, that's what I remember, too. The "alley" meaning between the buildings. Imo

 

[MemPat]

the type that are loud where neighbors beyond the wall sharing neighbor would hear.....

Yeah, a reciprocating saw seemed to be the tool of choice.

 

[katydid23]

the type that are loud where neighbors beyond the wall sharing neighbor would hear.....

I think the wall sharing neighbour was out of town, but I don't think that PF knew that at the time. But IDK for sure if he did know that or not...

 

[MsBetsy]

I base my opinion on speculation which might buy you a Sonic burger but is not good for much else!

I just keep trying to figure a way for Patrick to get her body out of the condo without showing him carrying her or the tote on camera.

I realize that camera didn't show everything that happened that day, happy as we are with it being a Lie Detector for Patrick.

If we believe KK there was a dramatic bloody crime scene which speaks to more than a few drops.

Luminol and Bluestar will show us the size of the clean-up as will ceiling splatter, if there is any.

I've seen forensic shows that show splatter after Luminol clean-up. I don't know if all crime scenes show up.

I would love to know how long water ran in the condo on Thanksgiving. We could learn how much clean-up of the body and of Patrick took place.

Well, if he was seen eleven times, which we didn't know about before, maybe we haven't yet heard what he was carrying in or out of the condo.

Imo

 

[skyedaze]

Correct. Everything fit, up until he returned to the house.

Honest mistake I’m sure.

and returned to the house, and returned to the house, and returned to the house and....