CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #63

[riolove77]

He did. That was for violation of a court order. I don’t know if a refusal to testify is treated the same way or not. One is doing something that you were expressly told not to do. The other is remaining silent when told to speak. So I don’t know, I’ll defer to the attorneys to say what worst case scenario for SF would be.

if she refuses to testify, then the judge orders her to, and she still refuses, yes; then it becomes refusal of a court order. Happened to a witness in my trial (defense witness, not mine) a couple months back.

 

[acutename]

I think a third party is involved and is tied to PF. I think KK's drugs incapacitated KB and that is why KK is so desperate to paint PF as the murderer with a ball bat in the condo. She feared losing her job. Which she lost. She's likely going to lose her children.

Yet not one shred of evidence that a ball bat was used or that the murder took place there. KK is a sick, obsessive liar trying to save her own hide. Not once in her testimony did she even mention her children or trying to protect them from PF after she claimed he made threats. What kind of mother does that? It's because PF never went to ID and never threatened her children.

JMO

problems with this: as far as we know, security cameras do not show KK at the condo the day the murder occurred

no information about cars or phones support KK being in CO on the day KB went into her condo "and was not seen again"

if you are going to "go with this theory" you need KK to have access to more cars and phones at a minimum.

if there is a third party, who is it?

 

[kakadu]

It’s the equivalent of waking up one winter morning, looking out your window, and seeing several inches of snow.

Most people would see the snow on the ground, and conclude that it snowed overnight. This, despite not seeing snow falling down.

Apparently, that’s not enough for others, and they will conclude that not only is there no snow, but it must be beach weather.

I couldn't help but smile. I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

[PommyMommy]

I saw that same quote again, and it makes me wonder which is the better one to Define what a Frazee'ism is?

The quote from the bank or this one?

"'He said "you know, if Kelsey wanted to commit suicide, she could go out to Pike National Forest and commit suicide and no one would ever find her." I said "Patrick, if her phone is pinging up in Idaho, how can she possibly be in Pike National Forest? And he just went "huh, yeah..."'

Patrick Frazee said 'if there is no body, there is no crime' after Kelsey Berreth disappeared | Daily Mail Online

SMDH

1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+++1+1+1+1+1= Beyond A Reasonable Doubt!!!

But it requires 2nd or 3rd level thinking and inferences. I guess that is why we saw in the voir dire that they asked can you do critical thinking. If somebody cannot do critical thinking, they cannot put two and two together, and all the circumstantial evidence, and put it together.

Many of us here do that with many cases, but seriously, that is what the prosecution was looking for as not everybody has the capability to do that even though most folks can do it easily? They know that some individuals just cannot cannot do such it appears.

The prosecution recognizes such, and hopefully got rid of those during voir dire.

MOO

BBM Huh, yeah.

There is no reasonable doubt if this jury is capable of criminal thinking. Plain, straight-up common sense also comes to mind. I am confident that DA May weeded out anyone who thinks comparing the evidence in this case to the movie Fatal Attraction is critical thinking.

Lord, have mercy!

MOO

ETA: Now I have that line from A Few Good Men stuck in my head.
ie: YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

 

[susiQ]

it's kind of a stretch to say there is "not one shred of evidence" the murder took place in the condo. the last photo of her was at the condo with PF. KB was never seen again after that. there was blood evidence found, with some of it found in locations that one might not normally expect blood to be found. a dog hit on decomposition in the location that KK said she placed some bags after the clean up. PF certainly was around the condo for several hours that afternoon with no sight of KB after that last photo.

Exactly!! How on earth could CB testify that things were missing from the Condo? Oh geez! Light bulb moment!! KK testified to having thrown those things out! But why?? If they weren't spattered with blood?? Bathroom mat, curtains, pillows, toys, books and even a Bible. No need to throw those out if there's no blood and KB didn't die there.

Just another reason these theories pulled out of thin air, based on nothing, make absolutely NO sense whatsoever. JMHO of course

 

[susiQ]

I was just reading my primer book on law.

1 piece of circumstantial evidence = possible Reasonable Doubt. (Circumstantial evidence, also called indirect evidence, requires that an inference be made between the evidence and the conclusion to be drawn from it... which I think requires 2nd or 3rd level thinking)

1+1=2

1+1+1=3

2+2=4

1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 (statistically a plethora of circumstantial evidence put together to infer the odds of all of these things happening) = Guilty, Beyond A Reasonable Doubt.

Maybe you could send this to CC as well. It appears he can't "add" up the evidence. This tutorial may help

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

Never mind.

 

[Wishbone]

Well first, I was in the courtroom, so I heard it with my own ears. But here is also a link with that.

Patrick Frazee trial: 'No body, no crime,' friend testifies accused killer told him

She never once said she received "bullet points." NOT ONCE. Once again, I was there. Where have you even seen this posted in the media? Because, it's absolutely false. Maybe you got it confused when they went over her 7 parts to the plea deal. These were not bullet points about the info she gave.

Still didn't answer my question about how every other witnesses testimony aligns with what she said. They were approached after KK....so.... Are all of these fabricated testimony's in your mind?

The defense has even acknowledge that KB's blood was left on the fireplace, wall, etc in their cross exam of KK. Will you believe it now because the defense said it?

Stiegerwald had Kenney admit she lied to the FBI the first time and noted again that she claimed she wanted to be caught. She testified that when agents came to her house, she said she would cooperate but said she did not tell them about any of the clues.

He again noted that the first time she talked to law enforcement was after she received the plea agreement and a letter and bullet points outlining what she needed to talk about, which she confirmed.

Frazee trial: Defense asks why Kenney didn't alert authorities

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Exactly!! How on earth could CB testify that things were missing from the Condo? Oh geez! Light bulb moment!! KK testified to having thrown those things out! But why?? If they weren't spattered with blood?? Bathroom mat, curtains, pillows, toys, books and even a Bible. No need to throw those out if there's no blood and KB didn't die there.

Just another reason these theories pulled out of thin air, based on nothing, make absolutely NO sense whatsoever. JMHO of course

Yes, to those that can do critical 2nd or 3rd level thinking, the only reason to remove curtains, bath rug, and the babies toys was if it was a very violent bludgeoning. Not putting pills and making them pass out.

Removing all that and the body... well...

1+1+1+ etc...........................

When would she have known the specifics of such damage and removal... and why would those items have been removed.

Logic!

 

[GordianKnot]

Just found another gem by PF that I hadn’t seen before.
It’s right up there with “Well, exactly”.

“In early December, Frazee started to make many comments about Pike and San Isabel National Forest further west of Florissant, Moore said. Frazee said if Berreth had committed suicide, she could just run up to the national forest and do it and nobody would ever find her. Frazee said there were parts of the national forest where no man has ever been, or ever would be for thousands of years. Moore said Frazee brought this topic up often — that Berreth had gone to the national forest and had killed herself.

One time, Moore said he asked how that could be the case if investigators said her cell phone had pinged off a cell tower in Idaho, to which Frazee replied, “Huh. Yeah.”

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/kelsey-berreth-case/patrick-frazee-murder-trial-k-9-handlers-say-dogs-hit-on-items-tied-to-kelsey-berreths-killing

Oh, Man.
Hoo-Boy.
What a great find!

This just made my day.

PF missed his calling:

He should have been President of the Teller County Debate Club, the fact that no such club exists, notwithstanding.

PF would have no doubt wowed the audience with his soaring rhetoric and incisive logic.

The fact that the audience would have been comprised entirely of donkeys, is beside the point.

JMO.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Stiegerwald had Kenney admit she lied to the FBI the first time and noted again that she claimed she wanted to be caught. She testified that when agents came to her house, she said she would cooperate but said she did not tell them about any of the clues.

He again noted that the first time she talked to law enforcement was after she received the plea agreement and a letter and bullet points outlining what she needed to talk about, which she confirmed.

Frazee trial: Defense asks why Kenney didn't alert authorities

Yep, this would be SOP. The seven points that the DEFENSE pointed out that she needed to tell the truth about, which was listed above in the previous thread. I can't find the post that someone did, but I'm confident it was general and without specifics at all. At the time she was interviewed, they didn't know 90%+ of the evidence and folks to go to for witnesses that we now know.

MOO

 

[Wishbone]

Maybe I am violating TOS but I have to ask, are you a friend or a relative of PF? And if so, shouldn’t you be listed as an insider?

On her post, she has JMO. Just my opinon, in case you didn't notice.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I'm *stalking* tee hee Sam Kraemer (@SamKraemerTV) | Twitter as he said he might do a facebook live tonight. I don't see any updates on such on his twitter yet.

IIRC, he said he might do one tonight. I hope so!

 

[justaparent]

On her post, she has JMO. Just my opinon, in case you didn't notice.

I noticed.

 

[susiQ]

Oh, Man.
Hoo-Boy.
What a great find!

This just made my day.

PF missed his calling:

He should have been President of the Teller County Debate Club, the fact that no such club exists, notwithstanding.

A "Donkey Debate" club would have been even more appropriate for PF.

(PF would be the one 3rd from the left).

JMO.

Hilarious!! I want the link to your emoji's Cough it up GK!!

 

[GordianKnot]

Hilarious!! I want the link to your emoji's Cough it up GK!!

Here you go: Free Smileys, Free Animated Emoticons - AllSmileys.com

 

[Wishbone]

Yep, this would be SOP. The seven points that the DEFENSE pointed out that she needed to tell the truth about, which was listed above in the previous thread. I can't find the post that someone did, but I'm confident it was general and without specifics at all. At the time she was interviewed, they didn't know 90%+ of the evidence and folks to go to for witnesses that we now know.

MOO

The poster asked for proof it was covered by the media. I linked the article.......This was his request

"She never once said she received "bullet points." NOT ONCE. Once again, I was there. Where have you even seen this posted in the media? Because, it's absolutely false."

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

In PF’s dog training video, there’s several watering troughs (one appears to be rusted), inside the dog training area.

JMO

To think his sickening voice is the last thing Sweet Kelsey ever heard.
Makes me want to puke.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

So ... having had some time to process the trial details so far ... I just have to say ... I don’t get it. Kelsey was so many wonderful things ... beautiful, kind, smart, loving ... and willing to love and nurture her baby and PF. How on earth could PF hate her so much ... for so long ... that he could kill her ... in such a brutal and rage filled way. I JUST DON’T GET IT!

She was so far ahead of all of them, I think that's why nobody did Jack about the plans. She was an outsider to them, They didn't like her high flying accomplished, independent ways,and as far as KK goes Nobody can tell me she didn't seeth with jealously. She didn't swing the bat,but she's went along With the plan. Manipulated others to help her go along with the plan. Although I don't think it took much for her friends to hate Kelsey too.
MOO

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

It was a ranch. Of course they have contained fires. How is that proof KB's body was in the fire which they could only pinpoint to "around Thanksgiving?" The ranch hands really added nothing of substance because they didn't see the actual fire. They didn't smell any accelerants and said there was more trash around the ranch to be burned.

The key takeaway from your link is that PF was in no hurry to get any of it quickly to the waste station or to the scrap metal folks. It says it was done over a several week period after the week of Thanksgiving and there was still more to clean up.

I think SF will testify why there was a need for the clean up. I'm betting it was tied to probate of the father's estate.

JMO

How about the tooth?