CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #63

[susiQ]

Here you go: Free Smileys, Free Animated Emoticons - AllSmileys.com

Thank you!!! Now I just have to figure out how to get them over here. I'm really challenged in that department Took me 8 months to get an avatar

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

BAM!!!!!
BAM!!!!!

BAM
BAM
BAM

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Thank you!!! Now I just have to figure out how to get them over here. I'm really challenged in that department Took me 8 months to get an avatar

I still haven't figured out how to get an Avatar. Been here since 2016.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Yup Steeltowngirl that's the one!

"Forget we were even here".

 

[GordianKnot]

Thank you!!! Now I just have to figure out how to get them over here. I'm really challenged in that department Took me 8 months to get an avatar

If I can do it, anyone can, trust me.
Well, anyone with the exception of PF.
It's easy-peasy.

All you do is click(you might have to right-click) on the one you want to use, select "Copy image" then just move the cursor over to your post and click "Paste" to insert it.

Et Voila!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

The poster asked for proof it was covered by the media. I linked the article.......This was his request

"She never once said she received "bullet points." NOT ONCE. Once again, I was there. Where have you even seen this posted in the media? Because, it's absolutely false."

Yep, this would be SOP for points of her agreement, and not *talking points* about specifics to lie about. I guess it is semantics that some folks are still confused about, although many have tried to clarify here on this thread (e.g. perhaps #1 was tell us what happened at the condo #2 etc... ).

I think some folks perhaps were thinking that the bullet points were specifics that the prosecution and LE knew that she knew evidence at the time and must attest to to get a deal? But... they.did.not.know that at the time so how could they?

That's the only reason I can fathom why this is going round and round and round?

The seven points that the DEFENSE pointed out that she needed to tell the truth about, which was listed above in the previous thread. I can't find the post that someone did, but I'm confident it was general and without specifics at all. At the time she was interviewed, they didn't know 90%+ of the evidence and folks to go to for witnesses that we now know.

The OP also stated that KKL was *coached* by the Prosecutor for ORIGINAL testimony in the Springs with her atty, the word "coached" seemed to be perhaps inflammatory and/or misleading to some, as we know that the prosecutor could NOT haved "coached" "leading" information out of her at the time which she didn't even have that has been 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 confirmed on the stand.

BBM. A total of 5 teeth were found on PF's property, iirc. There's been no testimony the partial tooth found by the FBI agent was human or that it belonged to KB. If I am mistaken, please provide links.

imo, the witness testimony aligns with what KK said because she was coached by the DA and acknowledged in court that she received "bullet points."

I've seen no proof any of KB's teeth were knocked out. I've not seen any evidence that chemicals detected blood "all over KB's condo." The testimony was only about the bathroom area--a room KK testified she barely entered.

JMO

I'm still looking for the post that stated what the agreement was that was in the media that the defense said in court, I guess must have been Sam or a video?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

To think his sickening voice is the last thing Sweet Kelsey ever heard.
Makes me want to puke.

For some reason, it seems a one up to Chris Watts... both IMO a lie told to others for some unknown SICK reason to hurt others. MOO

Just sick.

 

[Warwick7]

It’s the equivalent of waking up one winter morning, looking out your window, and seeing several inches of snow.

Most people would see the snow on the ground, and conclude that it snowed overnight. This, despite not seeing snow falling down.

Apparently, that’s not enough for others, and they will conclude that not only is there no snow, but it must be beach weather.

Excellent analogy!

 

[Aydrianna523]

Anyone have time to post a list of Dan Mays evidence? It's in the hundreds if not thousand. My head's spinning now with the fire discussion.
Actually this case is more like a book, starting with his lies to reel in kb.

 

[Medstudies]

Curious those who do not believe PF is the killer- how do you interpret this ?
Friend testifies Frazee said, ‘I figured out a way to kill her’
Snipped

Patrick Frazee murder trial: ‘I figured out a way to kill her,' friend testifies Frazee told him
Investigators find tooth in burn scar on Frazee ranch
Posted: 11:21 AM, Nov 08, 2019
Updated: 6:47 PM, Nov 09, 2019

Is the friend making this up?

For the record I believe he did it and the prosecution is proving their case IMO

Im all for looking at evidence and the whole presumed innocence thing —- but you know most people understand the REASONABLE doubt aspect. Not everyone can reason.

 

[susiQ]

Im all for looking at evidence and the whole presumed innocence thing —- but you know most people understand the REASONABLE doubt aspect. Not everyone can reason.

Sad but true. They cannot muster one iota of critical thinking to help their souls. So very sad

 

[zea mays]

Evidence of what? I think the defense destroyed KK's credibility on cross-examination. There has been no forensic evidence to support KK's claim the murder took place at the condo, that the murder weapon was a ball bat and that that the tooth was a human tooth and that it belonged to KB. That's the burden that the DA has to meet. I'm not even sure when the fire took place. The testimony from the ranch hands was vague about the specific date. For all I know, since they testified they placed the wood pallets in the rusted trough prior to Thanksgiving, PF may have started it the night of Thanksgiving or the day after.

That fire was in the works prior to Thanksgiving and KB was still very much alive. Ritchie testified the rusted horse trough was moved and the wooden palates placed inside of it before Thanksgiving. To me, it doesn't prove the purpose was to burn a body that wasn't dead yet.

There has been testimony that the DA provided KK with "bullet points" prior to her testimony. She also has embellished details she hadn't shared with LE previously. This woman is obsessed, delusional and there is no evidence at all that she has told the truth about anything at all.

Stiegerwald had Kenney admit she lied to the FBI the first time and noted again that she claimed she wanted to be caught. She testified that when agents came to her house, she said she would cooperate but said she did not tell them about any of the clues.

He again noted that the first time she talked to law enforcement was after she received the plea agreement and a letter and bullet points outlining what she needed to talk about, which she confirmed.

Stiegerwald then began to question her about things she testified about Wednesday and Thursday which he claimed was the first time she had discussed such matters.

She said that the story about Frazee fantasizing about having a son around with her was the first time she had told that story. She also said that she first told the story about giving Frazee a stuffed animal for Kaylee in court Wednesday and said she never told either story to law enforcement.

Stiegerwald asked if when she said that Frazee “wasn’t as excited as she hoped” about their unborn child, if she meant that Frazee was implying she should have an abortion, to which she responded she did not.
Kenney said she has told the truth for the past year, to which Stiegerwald ended his cross-examination:“For the past 10 hours, you’re telling the truth. And it just so happens to be what you needed to say to stay out of prison."

JMO

Frazee trial: Defense asks why Kenney didn't alert authorities

But that's the standard way that plea agreements are negotiated, IMO. KKL's would tell her lawyer the information she had. He/she would validate that information - likely with a polygraph test. Then, the lawyer talks in hypotheticals with law enforcement without the client. If my client has information about Y, then X, etc. They draw up the list of what categories of information the witness needs to testify to to complete the agreement. Then, the statement (and likely another polygraph) is given by KKL to law enforcement AFTER the plea agreement has been reached. Clearly, the physical evidence and testimony from others corroborates what KKL said or she wouldn't be in compliance with the plea deal. This protects both sides. So, the "bullet points" or "7 agreements" are the same thing and was generated between law enforcement and KKL's lawyer, IMO. A lawyer here can correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like that's pretty standard plea agreement process.

It’s the equivalent of waking up one winter morning, looking out your window, and seeing several inches of snow.

Most people would see the snow on the ground, and conclude that it snowed overnight. This, despite not seeing snow falling down.

Apparently, that’s not enough for others, and they will conclude that not only is there no snow, but it must be beach weather.

Oh my goodness yes.

I'm not sure why the 'bullet points' issue is bothersome to you. Its not atypical when you are being asked to give extensive or complex testimony to organise the information in advance of trial.

KK had roughly 10 hrs of testimony over a wide range of topics so organising the information into bullet points makes sense IMO.

Atty's spend a lot of time with 'witness preparation' and its part of the process and I don't think there is anything nefarious about the process at all as it isn't as if some kind of 'script' was given to KK by the DA as you seem to imply in you OP. KK was a witness on the stand under oath.

MOO

There isn't anything nefarious about it. Unless you're trying to find something - then you can make something of anything. MOO, of course.

The trial itself just started in the last week. We have yet to hear from the CBI experts whether chemicals detected blood in the condo even though the DA moved quickly past the condo to the Nash ranch evidence. Why is that? It would be imperative for the jury to know what the chemical testing of the condo revealed considering the K-9 dogs came up with nothing.

It has been known for many months that 5 teeth were seized via search warrant. So far, no CBI analysis of any of the teeth has been submitted as testimony.

JMO

BBM. Because the prosecution has a specific flow of testimony that they've created for the jury. They're telling the story first - the personal testimonials of what happened and next will come the forensic evidence to back that up. They aren't going to bring up ANYTHING that they can't back up with forensics or personal testimony.

What drugs?
We haven't seen any evidence that KK ever had any drugs or stole them from the hospital.
How could she have incapacitated Kelsey with the drugs if she did not arrive until two days after the murder took place? There is plenty of evidence that the murder took place in the condo.

Kelsey had to be dead in the tote by the time PF took the body to the Nash Ranch that night since there were stains on the hay and the dogs alerted there so when would she have given her the drugs?

Or did she give the drugs to the third party and they gave them to her?
But what would even be the point of giving her the drugs in the first place? And why would KK be afraid that her drugs incapacitated her so she had to make it look like PF murdered her if there was no way to prove she got the drugs in the first place?

Sounds too complicated to me.
It doesn't make sense.

Imo

BBM. We do have testimony from KKL's hearing - not this trial - that states she did carry the drugs. I had thought the same thing as you but someone provided this from KKL's hearing in Feb:

An arrest affidavit for Frazee reveal Kenney told investigators she carried drugs, at Frazee’s request, to poison Berreth’s coffee, but didn’t do it. She was asked by Frazee to beat Berreth with a pipe, but didn’t. She told authorities she cleaned Berreth’s condo after the murder and accompanied the body which was later burned.

So, where they came from (did she steal them? or did she get a MD friend to write her an RX? or did she already have an RX?) and what happened to those drugs we do not know. I don't think they had anything to do with the murder

it's kind of a stretch to say there is "not one shred of evidence" the murder took place in the condo. the last photo of her was at the condo with PF. KB was never seen again after that. there was blood evidence found, with some of it found in locations that one might not normally expect blood to be found. a dog hit on decomposition in the location that KK said she placed some bags after the clean up. PF certainly was around the condo for several hours that afternoon with no sight of KB after that last photo.

It is a massive, massive stretch. Pointed at no one in particular, some people really relish the appearance of having an open mind and maintaining the "innocent until proven guilty" ideal. Typically, I feel like those people abandon reason to try to portray that mindset.

BBM.
I don’t think there has been any testimony about KK having drugs or the hospital saying that drugs went missing. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Can you link a source that states KK has already lost her job?

As to her testimony omitting mention of her children, you do realize that she can only answer the questions that are asked, right? Can you cite a source stating that she was asked about her children?

There was testimony during KKL's plea hearing (linked above) about her having the drugs. There has been nothing to indicate she stole the medications, though.

I agree about the children. It doesn't appear she was asked about that so how could she testify about it?

Ok but it doesn’t state whether she was terminated or whether she quit.

No, it doesn't, but either way she lost her job. She either quit because of the publicity or she was terminated. Doesn't really matter because the end result is the same. I'd be curious if she were working anywhere right now. That's the real question, IMO.

Exactly..... as I read through posts, especially those where folks may believe PF is not guilty, and I read their reasoning behind it, I remind myself that we are all going through this trial with second hand tweets, FB live posts, etc, forming our own interpretation based on those.... and the reporters are doing an excellent job of it. I remind myself not to get caught up in the slight difference of a word/s a witness is "reported" to have said. It's the major and obvious testimony of facts that matters the most to me. Innocent until proven guilty... of course. But PF is the guy with the bulls eye on him.... and the more I read/hear, that bow & arrow keeps raising higher and higher.... aiming towards the bulls eye.

BBM. Exactly!

Stiegerwald had Kenney admit she lied to the FBI the first time and noted again that she claimed she wanted to be caught. She testified that when agents came to her house, she said she would cooperate but said she did not tell them about any of the clues.

He again noted that the first time she talked to law enforcement was after she received the plea agreement and a letter and bullet points outlining what she needed to talk about, which she confirmed.

Frazee trial: Defense asks why Kenney didn't alert authorities

Yep, this would be SOP. The seven points that the DEFENSE pointed out that she needed to tell the truth about, which was listed above in the previous thread. I can't find the post that someone did, but I'm confident it was general and without specifics at all. At the time she was interviewed, they didn't know 90%+ of the evidence and folks to go to for witnesses that we now know.

MOO

The bullet points and list of 7 agreements are the same thing, IMO. Just different verbiage by different reporters.

 

[susiQ]

IMO it wont clear up the confusion. Some people delight in causing confusion on many different threads, and it's always the same people. Some call the devils advocates, I prefer to call them trolls.

As you can clearly see, I prefer "devil's advocate!"

 

[1mtroyal]

Didn’t the judge admonish the person drawing pictures and threaten 6 months in jail ?
ETA link

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Judge Sells told him he doesn’t want anyone sketching anyone else in the courtroom. This was an intense moment. He said he could throw him in jail right now for six months on contempt of court. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth#PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney
12:16 PM - 7 Nov 2019

That's probably more than KKL is going to get.

 

[Medstudies]

Has there been any images presented/mentioned showing KKL entering/leaving KB’s condo? Any showing KB greeting her/permitting her entrance? Did PF give KKL a key? or did he leave the door unlocked?

maybe it’s just me, because I’m getting some victim unfriendly vibes

 

[susiQ]

Has there been any images presented/mentioned showing KKL entering/leaving KB’s condo? Any showing KB greeting her/permitting her entrance? Did PF give KKL a key? or did he leave the door unlocked?

maybe it’s just me, because I’m getting some victim unfriendly vibes

No images of KK entering or leaving condo. According to KK (don't ask me to find it ) she picked up keys to KB's condo at the gate of the Franchette on the morning of Nov 24th. If this is incorrect, someone please let me know.

 

[Medstudies]

No images of KK entering or leaving condo. According to KK (don't ask me to find it ) she picked up keys to KB's condo at the gate of the Franchette on the morning of Nov 24th. If this is incorrect, someone please let me know.

thanks!

This begs the (rhetorical to most) question: why would PF give a key to KKL?

That key is/was the property of KB. KB “knew” KKL as a coffee bearing faux neighbor. Hardly someone who was entitled to a key to HER home.

...

 

[zea mays]

thanks!

This begs the (rhetorical to most) question: why would PF give a key to KKL?

That key is/was the property of KB. KB “knew” KKL as a coffee bearing faux neighbor. Hardly someone who was entitled to a key to HER home.

...

He gave her the key just for the murder scene cleanup.

 

[Safeguard]

It is a massive, massive stretch. Pointed at no one in particular, some people really relish the appearance of having an open mind and maintaining the "innocent until proven guilty" ideal. Typically, I feel like those people abandon reason to try to portray that mindset.

Excellent way to put it. Pf is going to the Hoosegow, mainline joint, skinner joint, stoney lonesome, con college, glasshouse, bucket, club fed, greybar hotel, big house, slammer, calaboose, castle, cooler, country club, crowbar hotel, digger, farm, guardhouse, hole, joint, jug, juvie, pen, pokey, rock, sneezer, stockade, the clink.

That's all that really matters!

 

[Megnut]

I found the video of PF training herding dogs chilling. The troughs, the voice, and his ease.... he took every opportunity to call his female dogs bi tches. Seems like he's made it his life's work to control his bi tches. If a shrill whistle doesn't do it, how about a baseball bat?

Frightening how little he values life outside of his own.

In KK he found someone he could control. She, for whatever sad reason, found it captivating. The thrown Gatorade bottle caused her to back away but not for long. Caught in the addiction of drama, IMO. She probably found her marriage to be plain, boring.... but PF, PF gave her the giddy ups.

KB is different entirely. Does someone here have a date for when their relationship started? Online relationships, long-distance relationships are tricky because, speaking from personal experience, physical meetings are fewer and farther between than in a typical relationships, and that can push issues aside in favor of intimacy. You only get a couple days together, who wants to fight? The danger though is you miss a thousand opportunities to see that person in an accurate light. I know nothing of KK's background, but I'm assuming that KB grew up in a normal, healthy, nurturing home. She would have had no frame of reference for someone like PF. She's kind. She probably assumes people are kind. Speaking from more personal experience, you don't expect to meet a psycho/sociopath. When you see abusive behavior, you think you can fix it. Nurture it out of him. Only problem is, there are no rules. There's no way not to upset, no way to please. Seriously.... she had just delivered her baby (following a late term miscarriage???? Is this true??? When??? Was it PF's????? ).... so here she is, her baby girl is born, a lil preemie.... an especial miracle moment... and he ruins the moment, so concerned they get their time to bond, over the baby's need for additional care in the nursery, creating a scene, unable or unwilling to back down, to the point where CPS gets involved? That's how much he cares about KB getting to bond with her baby. Zilch. PF doesn't know HOW to love. He only knows how to control. Women. Nurses. Girl friends. Cattle dogs. MOO

Others here have said it, KB was an an empath... and when empaths and psychopaths collide, psychopaths don't usually stop until they've either exhausted or annihilated the other. In the world of a psychopath, he's probably upset he's gonna have to get another bat. He's not worried about the pain he's caused KB's family, he's not bothered by the pain he's caused that beautiful baby. In fact, he's probably brooding over what he'd call betrayal, by those testifying against him. He's probably seething when the occasional fact isn't represented "accurately".... lucky for him, his defense has managed to muzzle him. In the end, his mouth will be the end of him. He laid out his plan ahead of time ....

I'm just so sad for KB... that he belittled her, that he gaslit her, that he made life hard for her, and even that wasn't enough for him.

I hope there's a special ring of hell for burning a bible, burning a baby's toys, burning a life. Not just KB's. He forever took that precious baby's mother away from her. He should get a serving life sentence Judy for that.

I keep saying it, the trouble with evil is it shows up in regular shoes...

Please let us never lose sight of what is good in the world. The only way to confront evil is to overpower it with kindness.

In the end, KB was probably making sweet potatoes to send to a Thanksgiving dinner she was neither invited to nor welcome at... because it was her nature to be kind, to be giving....

I hope, in time, her family can find a way to celebrate the giving part of Thanksgiving, to honor KB.... and not allow that monster to take that too away from them.

Just my own thoughts and insights....