GUILTY CO - Olivia Gant, 7, died after long illness, Denver, 2017 *mom arrested murder, fraud, theft, abuse

[jjenny]

This seems to be a similar case, only the child survived. Here the child actually had a father that was trying to save him, and authorities didn't originally believe the father. Feeding tubes seems to be big with Munchausen by proxy mothers (in most of this cases I know of child had a feeding tube inserted). I wonder about little Olivia's father. Did he ever show any concerns that her mother was allegedly medically abusing her?

"A Dallas judge listened from the bench Friday as witnesses talked about eight years of unnecessary medical procedures a small child endured at the hands of his mother."
Read more here: https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article236011638.html#storylink=cpy
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article236011638.html

 

[Ksprincess2]

Well, in this case, mom decided to stop all medical care because child's quality of life was supposedly just too poor. Feeding tube is considered medical care. How was that allowed is beyond my understanding. Authorities have taken children from parents who don't want to give their children chemo for cancer, for instance. But in this case, sounds like little Olivia wasn't being given nutrition in the end, and nobody thought to remove her from mother's care? Some doctors are even quoted saying they didn't believe Olivia had a terminal condition. It sounds like Olivia didn't have any conditions that would have required a feeding tube to begin with.

It is shocking that she was just allowed to withdraw nutrition without anyone attempting to intervene! I've seen pictures of Olivia eating by mouth so why did she have a feeding tube and was getting TPN through a PICC line. Also in the pictures of Olivia when she's doing her "bucket list" she has a urinary catheter. Why would she possibly need this? This little girl was truly tortured. Seems like parents have too many rights and children none.

 

[gitana1]

Well, in this case, mom decided to stop all medical care because child's quality of life was supposedly just too poor. Feeding tube is considered medical care. How was that allowed is beyond my understanding. Authorities have taken children from parents who don't want to give their children chemo for cancer, for instance. But in this case, sounds like little Olivia wasn't being given nutrition in the end, and nobody thought to remove her from mother's care? Some doctors are even quoted saying they didn't believe Olivia had a terminal condition. It sounds like Olivia didn't have any conditions that would have required a feeding tube to begin with.

It appears that whoever she last had Olivia with had been convinced the kid was terminal and ordered hospice care.

How the heck that happened is beyond me. I mean some doctors and others she was in contact with reported she seemed mostly lively and alert. How does that translate to death’s door?

Some good questions.

 

[gitana1]

This seems to be a similar case, only the child survived. Here the child actually had a father that was trying to save him, and authorities didn't originally believe the father. Feeding tubes seems to be big with Munchausen by proxy mothers (in most of this cases I know of child had a feeding tube inserted). I wonder about little Olivia's father. Did he ever show any concerns that her mother was allegedly medically abusing her?

"A Dallas judge listened from the bench Friday as witnesses talked about eight years of unnecessary medical procedures a small child endured at the hands of his mother."
Read more here: https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article236011638.html#storylink=cpy
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article236011638.html

That case is horrible. The father lost custody rights because some judge told him he needed to accept his healthy child was dying. As a result even after the witch was arrested and the kid placed in foster care it took several months for him to regain custody.

 

[gitana1]

It is shocking that she was just allowed to withdraw nutrition without anyone attempting to intervene! I've seen pictures of Olivia eating by mouth so why did she have a feeding tube and was getting TPN through a PICC line. Also in the pictures of Olivia when she's doing her "bucket list" she has a urinary catheter. Why would she possibly need this? This little girl was truly tortured. Seems like parents have too many rights and children none.

Kind of makes you wonder why no one else is being charged. How is it not neglect to dehydrate and starve a kid to death who doesn’t show signs of being terminal? Unless mom had been doing something to her to make her that way.

 

[jjenny]

That case is horrible. The father lost custody rights because some judge told him he needed to accept his healthy child was dying. As a result even after the witch was arrested and the kid placed in foster care it took several months for him to regain custody.

At least the child survived in that case and father finally was able to get custody. Not the case with little Olivia who tragically died.

 

[jjenny]

I am not sure what exactly was happening in the end with Olivia and if they removed all support. Child was put on feeding tube and later on IV nutrition. Was all withdrawn, was IV nutrition left? Articles aren't clear on that. Her cause of death is undetermined, which is not good for a murder case. But autopsy didn't find the conditions mother claimed the child had, so it sounds like child actually didn't need anything of what was done to her (feeding tube, ostomy bag, her urine being removed through her abdomen-it sounds like a horror story).
This article goes into more detail but I am still not clear what was withdrawn.
Expert questions decision to withdraw nutrition from Colorado girl

 

[jjenny]

It is shocking that she was just allowed to withdraw nutrition without anyone attempting to intervene! I've seen pictures of Olivia eating by mouth so why did she have a feeding tube and was getting TPN through a PICC line. Also in the pictures of Olivia when she's doing her "bucket list" she has a urinary catheter. Why would she possibly need this? This little girl was truly tortured. Seems like parents have too many rights and children none.

Article I found said her urine was removed through her abdomen. It's like an American horror story. It doesn't sound like she needed any of these interventions, but her mother somehow convinced the doctors that she did.

 

[gitana1]

I am not sure what exactly was happening in the end with Olivia and if they removed all support. Child was put on feeding tube and later on IV nutrition. Was all withdrawn, was IV nutrition left? Articles aren't clear on that. Her cause of death is undetermined, which is not good for a murder case. But autopsy didn't find the conditions mother claimed the child had, so it sounds like child actually didn't need anything of what was done to her (feeding tube, ostomy bag, her urine being removed through her abdomen-it sounds like a horror story).
This article goes into more detail but I am still not clear what was withdrawn.
Expert questions decision to withdraw nutrition from Colorado girl

Me either. It seems multiple doctors. She doctor shopped for sure. But this is unbelievable:

• A pediatric neurologist recalled telling Turner that Olivia didn't suffer from seizures and instructing Turner three times in two years to stop giving the girl seizure medication, but she did not.

• A Children's Hospital doctor said he told Turner she was incorrect in stating that Olivia was "rejecting" one of her feeding tubes and suggested reducing her dependency on the tube, but Turner refused.

• A gastrointestinal physician said Turner insisted on the do-not-resuscitate order for Olivia, which he signed, only to learn later the girl was receiving heavy doses of narcotics of which her pain management team was not aware.

• A pediatric anesthesiologist said when Turner proposed withdrawing all of Olivia's medical care, she was given other options but insisted, even in the face of "pushback" from an ethics team.

• A pediatric gastrointestinal doctor told detectives all of Olivia's symptoms and history "came from Turner" and that Olivia "did not exhibit the symptoms Turner described most of the time." He described the girl as "interactive, social and fun to be around." Another gastrointestinal specialist said the same thing about Olivia and her mother and was "shocked" to learn the girl had died after being taken off medical treatment.

* A gastroenterologist told investigators that he explained to Turner that one of Olivia's tubes and her ostomy bag could be removed and that she could live a somewhat normal life, but Turner refused, saying, "It's already been done." He, too, expressed surprise that Olivia had died.

Colorado mom charged with murder and fabricating ailments for profit in Make-A-Wish daughter's death - CNN

Why would a hospital ethics team listen to a mother and not, like you said, call CPS? They said they disagreed with her decision but she “insisted”. And yet CPS wasn’t called?

No this is definitely outrageous.

 

[jjenny]

I don't know. Like I said, I feel there were plenty of clues here, and child should have been removed from her mother and could have been saved. This absolutely sounds to me like the child was perfectly normal and heathy, but mother somehow convinced the doctors to do all these surgeries and procedures on the child, and in the end she convinced the doctors that child should have all this medical care stopped. And doctors couldn't put 2 and 2 together and allowed her to do all that and the child is dead as a result.

 

[Ksprincess2]

Article I found said her urine was removed through her abdomen. It's like an American horror story. It doesn't sound like she needed any of these interventions, but her mother somehow convinced the doctors that she did.

So must it must have been an suprapubic catheter. Makes me sick to think of what Mom must have done to Olivia to convince someone that it was necessary for her to have one. Typically those are only done for someone who has an anatomical issue that makes using a Foley catheter impossible.

 

[Ksprincess2]

Me either. It seems multiple doctors. She doctor shopped for sure. But this is unbelievable:

• A pediatric neurologist recalled telling Turner that Olivia didn't suffer from seizures and instructing Turner three times in two years to stop giving the girl seizure medication, but she did not.

• A Children's Hospital doctor said he told Turner she was incorrect in stating that Olivia was "rejecting" one of her feeding tubes and suggested reducing her dependency on the tube, but Turner refused.

• A gastrointestinal physician said Turner insisted on the do-not-resuscitate order for Olivia, which he signed, only to learn later the girl was receiving heavy doses of narcotics of which her pain management team was not aware.

• A pediatric anesthesiologist said when Turner proposed withdrawing all of Olivia's medical care, she was given other options but insisted, even in the face of "pushback" from an ethics team.

• A pediatric gastrointestinal doctor told detectives all of Olivia's symptoms and history "came from Turner" and that Olivia "did not exhibit the symptoms Turner described most of the time." He described the girl as "interactive, social and fun to be around." Another gastrointestinal specialist said the same thing about Olivia and her mother and was "shocked" to learn the girl had died after being taken off medical treatment.

* A gastroenterologist told investigators that he explained to Turner that one of Olivia's tubes and her ostomy bag could be removed and that she could live a somewhat normal life, but Turner refused, saying, "It's already been done." He, too, expressed surprise that Olivia had died.

Colorado mom charged with murder and fabricating ailments for profit in Make-A-Wish daughter's death - CNN

Why would a hospital ethics team listen to a mother and not, like you said, call CPS? They said they disagreed with her decision but she “insisted”. And yet CPS wasn’t called?

No this is definitely outrageous.

Definitely scary! Obviously there was concern that something was not ethical for the ethics team to even have been consulted about Olivia. When I worked as a pediatric home health nurse I had patients placed on hospice care but there was never any question if they were terminal or not. And it was always the other way around with parents wanting to do everything possible to prolong their child's life no matter what quality of life they had while physicians were telling parents it was time to let them go.

Also the neurologist told the Mom 3 different times to stop giving her seizure medication and she didn't? The second time she didn't listen that should have been a call to CPS I hope some of these physicians are held responsible for not reporting, they are mandated reporters!

 

[gitana1]

Definitely scary! Obviously there was concern that something was not ethical for the ethics team to even have been consulted about Olivia. When I worked as a pediatric home health nurse I had patients placed on hospice care but there was never any question if they were terminal or not. And it was always the other way around with parents wanting to do everything possible to prolong their child's life no matter what quality of life they had while physicians were telling parents it was time to let them go.

Also the neurologist told the Mom 3 different times to stop giving her seizure medication and she didn't? The second time she didn't listen that should have been a call to CPS I hope some of these physicians are held responsible for not reporting, they are mandated reporters!

Yeah. I wonder if they did though. In many of these cases we see multiple reports and CPS either doesn’t find enough or is conducting a lengthy investigation.

 

[jjenny]

Yeah. I wonder if they did though. In many of these cases we see multiple reports and CPS either doesn’t find enough or is conducting a lengthy investigation.

I haven't found anything reported about any CPS investigations done on Olivia.

 

[jjenny]

Definitely scary! Obviously there was concern that something was not ethical for the ethics team to even have been consulted about Olivia. When I worked as a pediatric home health nurse I had patients placed on hospice care but there was never any question if they were terminal or not. And it was always the other way around with parents wanting to do everything possible to prolong their child's life no matter what quality of life they had while physicians were telling parents it was time to let them go.

Also the neurologist told the Mom 3 different times to stop giving her seizure medication and she didn't? The second time she didn't listen that should have been a call to CPS I hope some of these physicians are held responsible for not reporting, they are mandated reporters!

Child was also receiving heavy doses of narcotics according to Denver post article, of which pain management team was not aware. And still apparently nobody was concerned enough to contact CPS?

 

[gitana1]

I haven't found anything reported about any CPS investigations done on Olivia.

Something prompted the police to get involved.

 

[gitana1]

Child was also receiving heavy doses of narcotics according to Denver post article, of which pain management team was not aware. And still apparently nobody was concerned enough to contact CPS?

Yeah I don’t know. I mean eventually the police got involved. But why not then? Were they investigating and only arrested once it started up again with the older one? Why didn’t they take action then?

It’s a good question. Because if they knew she was on heavy narcotics not prescribed there should’ve been an immediately call to CPS. Or maybe they only found out about it later?

This is a mess

 

[jjenny]

Something prompted the police to get involved.

That only happened after Olivia died, and mom brought the older sister to the doctor and complained that older sister had bone pain. Doctor became suspicious, actually did his due diligence, found out the older girl never had cancer despite her mother's claims that she did. So that's how police became involved, not because of anything that was done to Olivia, but because of the older sister being taken to a doctor for supposed bone pain.

 

[jjenny]

Yeah I don’t know. I mean eventually the police got involved. But why not then? Were they investigating and only arrested once it started up again with the older one? Why didn’t they take action then?

It’s a good question. Because if they knew she was on heavy narcotics not prescribed there should’ve been an immediately call to CPS. Or maybe they only found out about it later?

This is a mess

My understanding nothing was investigated regarding Olivia's death until mom brought older sister to a doctor and doctor became suspicious.

 

[jjenny]

It's so sad to see the photos of the child in hospitals from a very early age. And that nobody figured it out, and she had multiple surgeries (feeding tube, urine removed through abdominal wall, ostomy bag) that apparently were completely un-necessary. And that finally the child died after suffering all her short life. How does someone do that to an absolutely adorable little girl?