CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #11

[DAdvocate]

I'm not going to spend any more time answering this question for you. I've answered it twice before and so have many other posters. Why are you so fixated on NUA and the welfare check? Not that I expect an answer.

Because I believe there is more to it. That’s all.

 

[katydid23]

No there isn’t ... it’s a theory.

Theories are usually based upon some kind of data.

 

[Ilovemy3boys]

It’s really mind boggling the folks who immediately go to guilty without seeing the facts of the case.

I say the same about you.

 

[TeaTime]

Stop. This young woman did not strangle her children. It didn't happen. He killed them all.

 

[bluesneakers]

Can’t figure out why she didn’t take his word for it. Had he lied to her before?

She didn't take his word for it because she saw the car, and because he's a lying liar who lies.

 

[kimlynn]

Because I believe there is more to it. That’s all.

I'll bite. Why do you think she alerted LE?

 

[DAdvocate]

Stop. This young woman did not strangle her children. It didn't happen. He killed them all.

And if that turns out to be true I’ll eat my shirt.

 

[kimlynn]

And if that turns out to be true I’ll eat my shirt.

Make sure you have some seasoning on hand. IMO

 

[Jennifer17]

It’s really mind boggling the folks who immediately go to guilty without seeing the facts of the case.

It is really mind boggling to us how some people don't know any facts but instead make thinly veiled insults at anyone who got in CW's way in his ridiculous story.
What facts are we ignoring?

 

[Chelly]

I'm not going to spend any more time answering this question for you. I've answered it twice before and so have many other posters. Why are you so fixated on NUA and the welfare check? Not that I expect an answer.

Ummmmm. Diversion perhaps...... when the responder can't come up with a logical argument. Happens often.

 

[cottonweaver]

I believe the police know who she is. It is easy enough just by checking phone records. SW was out of town so certainly had no reason to delete his call record or texts until she got back. So going with that theory maybe she is working with the police. She would certainly be privy to much of what was going on with CW during the time his wife was away. If he did fall for her and want out of his marriage, he could very well have said he would get divorced and they could get together. I am saying this assuming he really did want to be with her as opposed to just wanting to be free of all relationships and play the field.

Regardless of his intentions, what he was telling her can still give a clearer picture of what was going on in his mind at the time. If she knew he was married unless she was unhappily married herself I can't see her getting involved with him unless he was telling her he had plans for divorce, they weren't getting along blah blah blah which all goes towards motive. We know men will kill their wives in kids rather then file for divorce because to some men $$ and not wanting the responsibilities of weekend visits because he really wasn't that into his kids (killing them proves it) then he wanted a clean slate a la Scott Peterson. Free, not attachments and no bills.

I do think he was an emotionally needy person which most narcissists are because they need their ego constantly stroked. They tend to be very envious of their spouse's activities that do not center around him. His use of "her people" in the interview (jealousy) really irked me, not the word itself because I understand that is the terminology when your business is centered around recruiting people to sell and motivating them to actually do the same. That is how they make money. A good part of her time had to be spent encouraging new people to try this way or that way and many lose interest shortly and quit in that type of MLM business. I know this for a fact because I sold Mary Kay and at times it was tough enough training them in presentation and about the products themselves there is the rest of the job which was keeping myself motivated as well as every person on your team. That alone can be a full time job in itself. It's exhausting.

Shannan not only had her people to keep her busy, she was raising two young kids and pregnant with another. I'm tired just thinking about what her daily routine was and the fact she had lupus on top of it all. She really must have been an incredible woman. This would cause someone like CW to become extremely agitated that others people's needs were coming before his and frankly annoyance of his own kids as well. They also required her attention therefore robbing him of what little time his wife had to take care of HIS needs. When I read she had 5 weeks of meals prepared in the freezer for him that just cinched it for me. Needy man with a wife that went well out of her way to make sure he was looked after, probably so he wouldn't whine about it all to her.

So yeah, I think it's very likely if this is the first time he strayed, that he started looking around for a person to fill his own time with...someone who was available to care about him and focus on him. If in fact this was a new relationship and not something that had been going on before, sure the high people get when they first get together is wonderful. I can see him feeling he deserved it and SW just wasn't giving him the frequent attention and hand holding he needed. Oh yeah, he needed hand holding. Look at the sad presentation for his communication class. He is not only boring as all hell he lacks confidence as well. SW lifted his ego and then she "let him down" by not being available enough for him. I pity what life must have been like with him. I also would bet whoever his girlfriend is, she doesn't have kids which would make her a more appealing option for him since clearly he didn't want his own kids.

Fascinating & a ton of insights there.

 

[DAdvocate]

I'll bite. Why do you think she alerted LE?

I alluded to this earlier. I think maybe inside she feared she had hurt herself or the kids. Again SHE HAS NOT indicated that, but I think it’s possible.

 

[PommyMommy]

And since eyes were brought up...you can see his eyes are dead... as in nothing behind them like a soul.
One of the first things I noticed about him. IMO

THOSE EYES

 

[bluesneakers]

It is really mind boggling to us how some people don't know any facts but instead make thinly veiled insults at anyone who got in CW's way in his ridiculous story.
What facts are we ignoring?

As far as I can tell the wild speculation, thinly veiled insults, and CW's lies are the only facts we're ignoring.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

Yes. And we actually have a ton of evidence (or at least knowledge of it). Here is the evidence we know of:

1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a black and white monitor.

2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something bad, in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parent's love is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day, IIRC.

8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
A Global History of Child Death

12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he knew the authorities are about to get involved.

17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs. You don't snap out of that fast. It's easy to research).

19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are at that moment rotting in separate vats of oil.

20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

From the CO model jury instructions:

D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf

Case closed

Not enough like buttons for this post

Moo

 

[DAdvocate]

It is really mind boggling to us how some people don't know any facts but instead make thinly veiled insults at anyone who got in CW's way in his ridiculous story.
What facts are we ignoring?

There are no facts yet of what happen to the children. So let’s blame the dad!

 

[borndem]

I think most people disregard the severity of a death sentence in states that have not actively put convicted felons to death. Colorado is such a state just like CA is. I think that makes them more apt to sentence felons such as CW to death penalty verdict is to make sure it is in fact life in prison with zero chance of parole. Some states life in prison means 20 years. It's ridiculous.

I agree -- I think some states retain the DP just for a bargaining tool to offer a lesser plea of LWOP thereby bypassing a trial.
The case for guilt has to be very strong in the first place 1) to have the court allow a DP case, and 2) to warrant bypassing a trial.

Example: In NC, 1st Degree Murder has only two penalties: Death, and LWOP where LWOP is absolutely Life in prison, no parole. It can be appealed unless there was a plea agreement.
I don't understand sentences where LWOP means "eligible for parole after xx years. That's not Life. IMO.

 

[kimlynn]

I alluded to this earlier. I think maybe inside she feared she had hurt herself or the kids. Again SHE HAS NOT indicated that, but I think it’s possible.

But wouldn't she have indicated that as her reason for alerting LE?
She has done interviews since the murder and also has spoken to LE. Wouldn't LE take that into account before charging Chris?

 

[Jennifer17]

I alluded to this earlier. I think maybe inside she feared she had hurt herself or the kids. Again SHE HAS NOT indicated that, but I think it’s possible.

You are the one saying that we are avoiding facts and you come up with something you think?
What are the facts that we are ignoring?

 

[CM0709]

There are no facts yet of what happen to the children. So let’s blame the dad!

The dad killed the mom and disposed of everyone's bodies without calling 911 or trying to resuscitate his children it is not blame its fact and I wonder if you are in CW's phone contacts.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Somebody got Eikelenboom involved rather quickly. He’s the DNA scientist conducting research for the defense. Former DA Mitch Morrissey hates him. Had him discredited for not being accredited in the US; but I suspect he is now. I think think the AP sidepiece May have a lot of education without a lot of common sense.

I wasn't familiar with him, so I googled to get the info.

Within the article something struck me, and as we know there is a little bit of Truth to everything somebody says. The quote was

"Chris Watts spoke out the day before his arrest in an interview with 9News, in which he described the situation as “a nightmare that (he) just (couldn’t) wake up from.”

Smh... I'm back off the fence leaning more towards that he strangled her while she was sleeping and that she could not wake up from that.

Shanann Watts, 2 daughters likely strangled, records show