CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #15

[Inthedetails]

Thanks, I am really interested in the mechanics of the crude oil burials. A few days ago someone said there was a video showing that there was just a latch, the person pushes down, and voila, the tank cover or manhole comes up. Also a few days ago someone said the tanks were inactive. Since it takes me about an hour to change a tire, what with stubborn lug nuts, I can hardly imagine opening those tanks so quickly unless he did it earlier. I wonder if there is some alarm when the tank is opened.

I am also very interested in the logistics of the burials. The more I think about it, the less it seems something that could be done quickly and/or in a panic like he claims.

jmo

 

[BingoBongo]

I’ll add to your list of ORs..

I get the sense Shanann was the best thing that ever happened to CW. He seemed to have a social disability which prevented him from meeting people or having close intiment relationships. When she took a chance on him due to his “persistency” I think it’s possible this was the first time he felt like a hero, or was recognized as one from other people due to “loving”/“supporting” her through her health problems e.g lupus

As their relationship continued, he received more and more praise because Shanann made him more likable. She instilled confidence in him, she motived him be healthier, she motived him to lose a tremendous amount of weight and to become fit/toned/muscular— he doesn’t even look like the same guy from several years ago.

Lastly, she made him a father to two beautiful girls.

He was admired because of Shanann.
He was respected because of Shanann.
He progressed because of Shanann.
He became a man in people’s eyes because of Shanann

Whatever the trigger(s) was/were he couldn’t be the bad guy. He couldn’t go back to everyone viewing him for what he is— a shell of a man.

I agree! And again, this is a VERY narcissistic trait (not in all narcs, but many)...social skills lacking, a need for extreme admiration...then it dims for them and they have a strong need to look elsewhere for their ego strokes. Many just dump their current source, sadly this one took the evil way out. :-(

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I came across this statement and I thought it was worth sharing.
To be intolerant of another viewpoint provides a huge disadvantage when it comes to being able to have any critical conversation. Have fun with the surface level he-said-she-said gossip, because that’s about the extent of what your interactions will be diminished to if you choose to limit yourself to intolerance.

 

[Lore Listener]

I’ve seen RL husbands convince to have another child to their wives, but I have no rational explanation as to why even when having deeper at the time insight. Made no sense to me. May be to appease... not sure but there definitely are better ways. I always roll my eyes when I see that like, you’re kidding me right (SM “friends”). To which I usually unfollow.
Rambling now.

Have you seen this? Christopher Watts spoke on saving relationships 6 years before being charged in family killings

CW made a video presentation on communication in relationships several years ago, in which he states that having a child can save a "deteriorating relationship." (Which is clearly the opposite of all known evidence.) Anyway, that might help answer your question.

 

[NuttMegg]

I am also very interested in the logistics of the burials. The more I think about it, the less it seems something that could be done quickly and/or in a panic like he claims.

jmo

I really want to know if he had to go through that Cervil ranch arch and through that building area to get to the access road to the tank farm. (Sorry for repeating myself, just that it could narrow the time the day before if he went there, if access is curtailed on Sunday or limited to certain hours on the weekdays, ie after 6.)

 

[kkdj]

Just wanted to shout out a "thank you" to the poster who gave details about what the oil tanks are like. The bit about the screws on the access doors (not sure the right name) and that they are sometimes loosened in advance because they can be so time-consuming to undo.

If that is the case with these tanks that CW used, it really give the impression that CW had the site planned and prepped in advance.

Always great to have experts and people willing to share info on the threads.

jmo

BBM
Or knew someone else had just done so. I'm not in any way shape or form suggesting an accomplice.....I mean in the course of their work and CW was aware of it.

 

[ray9898]

I thought he got home fairly quickly & isn't that location close to 40 miles away?

He was at the location hours earlier. He had already left and reported to work hours before the welfare check.

 

[kkdj]

Hey Bill,
It does explain it. And if I currently believe #1 as an outsider, your #2 is a very good question point as well. So thank you.

Also, I did not mean to imply that YOU were looking for a WS fight.... we’ve just seen others do so for no valid reason, and also PMing people (including myself) with opposing views but moreso just attacking. I have not seen where you’ve done that and looking back, I should’ve been more specific, or not made that statement at all in my OP response.

I do appreciate your thoughts, especially when opposing mine, and appreciate you do it with rational explanation.

I’ve seen RL husbands convince to have another child to their wives, but I have no rational explanation as to why even when having deeper at the time insight. Made no sense to me. May be to appease... not sure but there definitely are better ways. I always roll my eyes when I see that like, you’re kidding me right (SM “friends”). To which I usually unfollow.
Rambling now.

BBM
What does this mean? Really lazy?

 

[NuttMegg]

He was at the location hours earlier. He had already left and reported to work hours before the welfare check.

Was reporting to work...in the field, or an office to punch a card?

 

[Bill Carson]

Bear with me, please. (Sorry for the MEGO.) I want to try to explain, from my perspective only, why I think it is relevant and appropriate to discuss some things that some of you are interpreting as victim bashing.

So let's assume for the sake of this argument that SW was genuinely just as kind and sweet and good-hearted as she presents herself on SM, that she doesn't have a mean bone in her body, that she was the perfect wife and mother doing the best she could while suffering from a chronic health condition, and that she didn't have any sort of mental illness or anything like that. She is awesome, and there was no reason in the world for a rational person to dislike her, much less kill her or the children. In short, nothing that happened was her fault. Okay?

Every trial lawyer worth their salt will have a "Theory of the Case" for every case they try. A Theory of the Case is a short, concise statement explaining who did what and why. The shorter the better, the simpler the better. This statement, if true, helps the jurors interpret the individual facts and put them in a larger context.

Think of it like this: each piece of evidence is like a piece to a puzzle. We've got all these pieces, but what kind of picture are we trying to make? Is it a barn? A horse? A lion in the zoo? The Theory of the Case is like the picture on the box: when we put all these puzzle pieces together, you should end up with a picture that's on the box. The prosecution will say, we think these puzzle pieces will fit together to form the image of a cow. The defense will say that the puzzle pieces make a picture of a chicken. The jury has to decide which theory is more consistent with the evidence that they are presented through the witness stand. And once the jurors start to see a particular picture emerge ("Hey, it does sort of look like a cow"), then they will start to interpret facts (puzzle pieces) in a way that is consistent with that image ("Oh, this is not a chicken foot, it's a cow's tail!").

As I said, the Theory of the Case contains three parts: Who did What, and Why? "Who" is the defendant, "What" is the crime, and "Why" is motive. From a legal perspective, all that matters is the Who and the What. Motive is very rarely an element of a crime, and the prosecution is not required to prove why a crime was committed. But we all want to know motive because we want to make sense of why crimes happen. It is especially important in tragic cases such as this one, because most people (myself included) can't wrap their heads around Why a seemingly loving father would kill his perfect wife and beautiful children. So we badly want to try to understand some reason or motivation that explains the Why, and if we don't find that motivation, then we might start looking for other theories that would explain it better. ("It's not a cow, it's a unicorn! NOT GUILTY!")

So, the prosecution is going to need to come up with a Theory of the Case such as "He killed her because he was jealous that she was earning more money than he was." To break that down, "He (Who) killed her (What) because _____ (Why)."

To think about Why, we have to get inside the Defendant's mind and walk around. You and I know that the Wife was sincere and perfect. But Husband killed her. Why?

If the Why is that Husband was jealous because Wife was earning more than him, would that mean we were blaming Wife---("If she hadn't been so successful, he wouldn't have had to kill her. It's HER fault!"). No! That's absurd. Her being successful isn't her fault. His jealousy is his problem.

But when we try to suggest a reason why Husband hated Wife so bad and was so angry, it might sound on its face like we are blaming Wife. "He killed her because.....she wouldn't stop eating crackers in the bed!" A person might say, "Hey, you are blaming the victim here and that is against the TOS!" No, that's not what we are doing, we are providing the motive to complete the Theory of the Case.

I hope that makes sense. Sorry again for the length. I have a hard time getting my point across sometimes.

 

[Hazelnutty]

I’ll add to your list of ORs..

I get the sense Shanann was the best thing that ever happened to CW. He seemed to have a social disability which prevented him from meeting people or having close intiment relationships. When she took a chance on him due to his “persistency” I think it’s possible this was the first time he felt like a hero, or was recognized as one from other people due to “loving”/“supporting” her through her health problems e.g lupus

As their relationship continued, he received more and more praise because Shanann made him more likable. She instilled confidence in him, she motived him be healthier, she motived him to lose a tremendous amount of weight and to become fit/toned/muscular— he doesn’t even look like the same guy from several years ago.

Lastly, she made him a father to two beautiful girls.

He was admired because of Shanann.
He was respected because of Shanann.
He progressed because of Shanann.
He became a man in people’s eyes because of Shanann

Whatever the trigger(s) was/were he couldn’t be the bad guy. He couldn’t go back to everyone viewing him for what he is— a shell of a man.

I totally Agree!

 

[Inthedetails]

BBM
Or knew someone else had just done so. I'm not in any way shape or form suggesting an accomplice.....I mean in the course of their work and CW was aware of it.

If CW were aware of someone on the work site loosening the screws in the days before the murders, I would assume he would expect to workers to show up and use the access door...which would indicate, I would think, that it wouldn't be a good idea to toss bodies in the tank.

But what do I know.

JMO.

 

[ray9898]

Since this was an active well, there is a good chance that they kept a grease or lubricant on them to keep them from corroding. But loosening them beforehand would be a very smart idea, especially if he put the girls in different tanks. Think about unscrewing 16 bolts (8 on each tank). They are very big bolts. It would take time, plus you can pinch or cut your finger leaving DNA or blood on the bolts or threads.

Anyone who does that kind of task on a routine basis will have a battery powered impact driver at their disposal. It would be a one minute job.

Even if you have to use a socket and ratchet it wouldn't take that long. Either way, I don't see how it could have an impact on the overall timeline of what was possible.

 

[Thinker Belle]

I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

Evidence of triple murder:

1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
A Global History of Child Death

12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf

I wish I could like this post 10,000 times. When you see it all laid out like this, it is so blatantly obvious that CW version of events is ridiculous. It simply defies all logic and REASON that things could have went down the way CW claims they did. We can only hope if this goes to trial that the jury uses their common sense and puts this killer away.

MOO

 

[NuttMegg]

I wonder if he can (is allowed to) drive his own truck to that tank farm site. IE without GPS monitoring.

 

[cryscrys]

Here is my theory only, because CW is so intent that they pull DNA from the girls necks, I believe he used something with SW DNA to (its so hard to say) strangle the girls. I believe that it was necessary for the girls to be killed because that was initially his defense for killing SW ( Saw her killing them and reacted accordingly). I think either something didn't go according to plan or he spooked and decided a MP story would be easier to get away with. Of course this is all JMO

 

[Bill Carson]

BBM
What does this mean? Really lazy?

So sorry. I just realized you weren't asking what BBM and SBM meant. Ugh.

 

[Inthedetails]

The shorter the better, the simpler the better.

Snipped by me.

Great reminder. Thanks.

 

[ray9898]

Was reporting to work...in the field, or an office to punch a card?

I have no idea. I can only give my experience from past field engineer type jobs, we never 'punched a time clock'. Some days we may start in the field and some days we may hit the office to turn in paperwork or pickup supplies.

 

[Bill Carson]

Anyone who does that kind of task on a routine basis will have a battery powered impact driver at their disposal. It would be a one minute job.

Even if you have to use a socket and ratchet it wouldn't take that long. Either way, I don't see how it could have an impact on the overall timeline of what was possible.

This is a bit of a stretch, but IF he was assigned to maintain the tanks and equipment in that area, and IF he planned these murders and the location in advance, then it is possible that he might have tampered with the equipment so he would "need" to report to that location to fix something? "That tank valve has been getting stuck again. I'm going to head over there first thing Monday morning to work on it."