CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #16

[Mamamerced]

So I’ve been trying to imagine everything that could have been said (by both parties) in the “emotional conversation” to spark the explosion, so to speak, IF not premeditated.
So, considering he’s the murderer of everyone imo, what did SHE say to him to set him off, IF he snapped:

“I’m leaving you..”
-this might not bother him if he had a mistress

“I’m filing for divorce (And keeping the house)”
-expensive

“I’m taking the kids”
-If I can’t have them you can’t either

"And you will be outed".

 

[AlwaysHopeToHelp]

Thank you. The whole reason


Thank you. The whole reason I never went thtough was because verification required a phone conversation at the time and I never speak on the phone-I hate it so much that I haven't even had one for years. If that has changed, though, then I will do it.

Yeah I did it all through email

 

[NuttMegg]

Does anyone else feel like this?

I want answers. I can't wrap my head around it, and I get a little obsessive reading these threads, hoping to have some sense of it. I didn't know Shanann and her babies, but as a mother/sister/aunt, it hurts to think of this happening to them just the same.

So when the details eventually come, it's going to be awful. Reading about Christian Longo and Jeffrey McDonald twist my stomach.

I feel like if/when the crimes of CW are laid out, reconstructed - for court, for a true crime TV show - it's going to be heart rending.

Does anyone else feel like when we get some of the answers we search for, it's going to hurt?


PS Bella's little face - love it. She reminds me of pics of me as a toddler/preschooler. I didn't have much hair yet either. Another reason to feel emotions for a family I never met.

To me it's 2-3 boxes. One is How he done it. This box I can analyze, wonder how the tanks work, what evidence there is. Analyze it coldly, more or less. It's that second box that I hardly ever let myself open, I don't watch her videos, I won't again watch the grinning while he is SO sad he just can't locate his family, but hey I gonna put the house up for Sale. This box contains the murder of what I call the "pigtailed babies". Meaning how can that monster fix a little girl's hair one day, then the next day haul off and murder her and then throw her little baby body in toxic crude. X2. That box and the motive box I just don't want to enter any more than necessary.

 

[margarita25]

Maybe vomit was on the pillowcase?

Ive thrown away a lot of things, pillowcases are not frequently one of them.

What was on it? Blood? Vomit? Semen? Fibers?

ETA: could be maybe have been throwing it out bc it matched the bedding used in the disposal?

 

[Bill Carson]

Here is a potential timeline of employment. Feel free to make corrections if needed:

2012 Watts married in NC. SW, who was previously married, sold the NC home she & CW had been living in (including furniture) and quickly moved to CO. SW stated she wanted a change, and she felt CO was “drama free.” She had a good friend who had recently moved to CO, and the Watts lived with her & her family upon first moving out there. SW earned her keep by nannying for her friend’s children. CW got his job at the Ford dealership. It should be noted he clearly had an interest in cars, and his father held a similar position in NC.
I do not know when SW became employed at the dealership, but my guess is that she must’ve started weekends or evenings to supplement their income during this time period. We know they were trying to save up for a down payment.

2013 The Watts bought their home on Saratoga Trail for $400,000. They had to use an FHA loan and only put several thousand dollars down. This resulted in a monthly mortgage payment of $3,000. This likely included MIP insurance premiums which are notorious.

2014 We know SW became pregnant with their first child, Bella. I believe becoming a mother is likely what caused her to stop nannying & working weekends at the dealership. My assumption only. She began her job working in a call center at a hospital at some point in late 2013/early 2014. CW is still at the dealership.

2015 In June 2015, the couple declare Ch 7 bankruptcy. In the filing SW is listed as working at the call center & earning $18/hr. It also states CW began a job at Anadarko 6 months earlier, which would mean Jan 2015. He is listed as earning $61,500/year. We also know SW became pregnant with their second child, Celeste (CeCe) during this time.
Why did he change jobs? I don’t know. We know his income was falling per the bankruptcy filing. Perhaps he was laid off or perhaps the dealership had to cut his pay for some reason. Maybe his wife wanted him to have more of a 9-5 job now that they were parents.

2016 SW starts MLM w/LeVel to supplement income.

2017 SW posts she’s “retiring” from the call center after 4 years to be a SAHM & sell THRIVE full-time.

2018 SW is working her way up the ranks with THRIVE, CW has now been with Anadarko for 3 years. We do not know their income at this time. We do know their HOA was suing them for $1,533.80 in unpaid dues.

Article attached for reference.
Colorado family struggled with finances before man allegedly killed pregnant wife, kids

That's a really good timeline, MerryB!

There are a few things that I would correct, but I don't have documentation for. You could be right, but this also makes some sense to me. See what you think---

2010, CW and SW (then SK) meet. Not sure when they start living together.

In 2012, CW gets the job at the dealership in Colorado, prompting the move. From article quoted below, "Linda Biggers, a realtor who listed Shanann’s home, told The Daily Beast she believes the couple moved because Chris got a job out West."

According to the Daily Beast article, "Alore (their boss at the Ford Dealership in Colorado) said the Wattses moved to Colorado after Chris accepted a job as a mechanic at the dealership in 2012. Shanann was hired by the company’s internet sales department and, according to online reviews, was a talented salesperson."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/everyone-liked-him-did-colorado-dad-chris-watts-lead-a-double-life?ref=scroll

So SW puts her house in NC up for sale. Remember that the real estate market was really bad at that time--it was close to the bottom of the market, and it may have taken a while for the house to sell. But according to the same article, "A deed for the house was signed in August 2012 while Shanann was living in Colorado, property records show."

Then they get married in November of that year in North Carolina. "Shannan King became Shanann Watts on Nov. 3, 2012. She and Chris married at the DoubleTree Suites by Hilton hotel in Charlotte, North Carolina." Same article.

Bella was born in December 2013, 13 months after they married.

 

[MerryB]

Maybe vomit was on the pillowcase?

Ive thrown away a lot of things, pillowcases are not frequently one of them.

What was on it? Blood? Vomit? Semen?

I personally think he just wanted rid of anything that matched the fitted sheet at the burial site.

 

[kebdal23]

Some random thoughts (I have tried so hard to keep up with this thread, sorry if it’s been speculated before):
If he did dispose of the girls before SW came home, his leaving would have been captured on the neighbors camera on Sunday evening. Nothing has been indicated or come to light that this happened. Plus he was at the bday party and grilling (he did this on purpose IMO to be seen). MOO-he killed them before she got home but did not dispose of them. I think he wanted her to see them.
Also, regarding the sheet and pillowcases in the trash, the only explanation I can think of is because they were a matching set to the one at the gravesite and he thought he still had time to get rid of them.

 

[Herat]

I have just remembered that he was not at the house on Tuesday night. He was at the friend's house talking about putting the house on the market.

By Monday night, SM's friend N, and LE knew they were missing and under suspicious circumstances. Her phone, purse, keys, the kids Epipens, everything was still there. No luggage had been taken, clothes had not been packed, no "Dear Chris" letter..... nothing to indicate she had made a logical, planned, prepared departure.

Monday night I believe he was at their home. Think about it...... he actually could have returned to the well, dug up Shannan's body and had more time to get it into one of the tanks. He's pretty fit, I don't think this would have been as difficult for him, given enough time.

So what stopped him from doing that?

Would his presence there alert the Cervi Ranch foreman or others?

Was he suspecting he was under surveillance?

Why didn't he make an effort to clean up the house - or did he? Did he put the sheets & cases in the trash then? Why didn't he just put them in the trash somewhere else?

My feeling is that there wasn't much to clean up in the house. There had been little to no struggle, if he snuck up on Shannan. No loud fights, no breaking lamps, throwing stuff. I think he killed them all with very little disturbance and he killed Shannan in their bed, hence the disrupted bedding (wrapping her in the bottom sheet she lay on)

 

[Seattle1]

The hard copy of People Magazine out on Friday revealed a couple things: LE will be testing all the hairs [belonging to SW and babies] located in CW truck which can be forensically tested to indicate [an estimated] the time of death. Such test can support or negate CW claim that SW allegedly killed her children on Monday morning between 4-5AM as told by CW, or that the children were dead long before SW murdered. It follows that LE could do similar tests with hair found in the bedding/linen, and also explains why CW was desperate to get rid of evidence by throwing the bed linen in the trash. MOO

LATE EDIT TO QUOTE: "... hundreds of hairs recovered are being tested to determine whether the hairs fell out before death or postmortem, which is key to establishing a timeline. "If [Shan'ann] killed the kids and he killed her, the girls won't have been dead for very long when he loads them in the truck. The hairs should reflect that." But, the police source continues, they may also bear out an alternative scenario: That Chris killed the girls even before Shan'ann returned from her Aug 10-12 work trip to Arizona. "Then," the police source explains, "the hairs will show that the girls were dead for longer than his version of the story."

 

[MyBelle]

This is a link to the latest research I know of on the subject. There is also a link to another website focused on this topic if you want even more information...
https://www.ifscolorado.com/cytochrome-p450/
Please note this link is sponsored by the scientist working with the defense in this case, Eikelenboom.

There is a scientist working with the defense in this case? I wasn't aware of that but I have been wondering if CW was hallucinating when he claims he saw SW strangling the girls.

 

[sun16]

If this goes to trial, or if more info gets released, I think we’ll be surprised by just how much evidence LE has. A lot of what we expect they would have plus much, much more.

 

[ray9898]

I don't understand all this talk about 'marking the grave'. It would be unnecessary.

 

[sun16]

Who is paying for the scientist working with the defense and any other experts they need or research they’ll need to conduct? The state and Colorado taxpayers, since this is a public defender?

 

[Herat]

LE will be testing all the hairs [belonging to SW and babies] located in CW truck which can be forensically tested to indicate the time of death.

Really? LE can distinguish the time of death from hairs? We are postulating the times were something like minutes to hours apart. That sounds like some TV CSI stuff to me, not reality

 

[PommyMommy]

The hard copy of People Magazine out on Friday revealed a couple things: LE will be testing all the hairs [belonging to SW and babies] located in CW truck which can be forensically tested to indicate the time of death. Such test can support or negate CW claim that SW allegedly killed her children on Monday morning between 4-5AM as told by CW, or that the children were dead long before SW murdered. It follows that LE could do similar tests with hair found in the bedding/linen, and also explains why CW was desperate to get rid of evidence by throwing the bed linen in the trash. MOO

I worry whether the hairs collected will have any post-mortem banding if the girls were put into the truck in trash bags.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Any news or updates on TOD of the girls? That to me would be the whole case in a nutshell and blow his butt out of the water with his moronic story of what happened.

 

[Thepoet]

Is CW a sociopath? He showed no sadness, remorse, etc., when he was interviewed. He did show some indication he thought he knew something no one else knew (what's the term?). It seems more than narcissism, but I'm a writer, not a psychiatrist. Any thoughts?

I can barely comprehend how this happened!

 

[Inthedetails]

I personally think he just wanted rid of anything that matched the fitted sheet at the burial site.

I don't think he thought that hard. He missed so many details that I don't think he even thought about the matching pattern.

I think there was something on the pillowcase - vomit, saliva, etc. that made him not want to clean them and use again. They were garbage at that point to him, so he tossed them.

jmopinion

 

[molly1255]

Not sure if this has been discussed previously, but in the arrest affidavit it states that CW told officers (on Monday) that he had packed tools into his truck and left at 5:27 a.m. to check on a job site near Hudson.

Absolutely bizarre!

Never mind if this has already been discussed. LE may have used GPS to confirm he had gone to the Hudson area, but he told them where he went that morning when LE came to the house to do a well-person check Monday afternoon.

Refer to Page 1, about 3/4 of the page down:
https://mediaassets.thedenverchanne...est affidavit chris watts_95256653_ver1.0.pdf

 

[NuttMegg]

The hard copy of People Magazine out on Friday revealed a couple things: LE will be testing all the hairs [belonging to SW and babies] located in CW truck which can be forensically tested to indicate the time of death. Such test can support or negate CW claim that SW allegedly killed her children on Monday morning between 4-5AM as told by CW, or that the children were dead long before SW murdered. It follows that LE could do similar tests with hair found in the bedding/linen, and also explains why CW was desperate to get rid of evidence by throwing the bed linen in the trash. MOO

Did cw have a truck of his own, ie the "ford" mentioned by the AP guy? Why would non-working employees be allowed in the company truck? So I wonder if having the girls' hairs being in the company truck is a clue all on it's own. Does anyone know if the company car is the ford? Ie the ford mentioned on BA?