Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #20

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  • #561
Hello All — I have lurked for several weeks and followed this case very closely (rare for me.)

I do appreciate the general human decency of this forum and the diligence of the moderators and experts.

What a heartbreaking case...

Here is why I registered, (and I apologize if someone has already addressed this concern.)

In the Christmas video, in Shan’ann’s early close-up talk w the camera about her plans:
(It appears she’s in her closet) - there is this:

Has anyone else noticed what looks like a horizontal, reddish-brown scar on her neck? It’s pretty visible in that video.

I don’t see it in other pics, but may have missed something.

Wondering if she’d had some sort of surgery?

Otherwise.... a scar? On her *neck?*

For now I’ll skip what goes through my mind. Several awful possibilities.

In general, I can attest that some real nasty DV can be very well hidden behind closed doors.

Again, sorry if this has been addressed already. Can’t follow the thread 24/7!
 
  • #562
Made a good point no more Thrive. Wonder how he's going to look in Oct when he's back in court.
He may still look good since he has 23 hours a day to work out. There's really nothing else he can do in his cell MOO

BBM

Maybe he can get a bowl haircut like David Turpin.
 
  • #563
You can buy CBD over the internet, for pain management. Don't need to move house...
CBD oil is illegal in Wisconsin. Crazy huh?
 
  • #564
Hello All — I have lurked for several weeks and followed this case very closely (rare for me.)

I do appreciate the general human decency of this forum and the diligence of the moderators and experts.

What a heartbreaking case...

Here is why I registered, (and I apologize if someone has already addressed this concern.)

In the Christmas video, in Shan’ann’s early close-up talk w the camera about her plans:
(It appears she’s in her closet) - there is this:

Has anyone else noticed what looks like a horizontal, reddish-brown scar on her neck? It’s pretty visible in that video.

I don’t see it in other pics, but may have missed something.

Wondering if she’d had some sort of surgery?


Otherwise.... a scar? On her *neck?*

For now I’ll skip what goes through my mind. Several awful possibilities.

In general, I can attest that some real nasty DV can be very well hidden behind closed doors.

Again, sorry if this has been addressed already. Can’t follow the thread 24/7!

BBM.

Yes, she did have surgery on her neck.
 
  • #565
  • #566
Hello All — I have lurked for several weeks and followed this case very closely (rare for me.)

I do appreciate the general human decency of this forum and the diligence of the moderators and experts.

What a heartbreaking case...

Here is why I registered, (and I apologize if someone has already addressed this concern.)

In the Christmas video, in Shan’ann’s early close-up talk w the camera about her plans:
(It appears she’s in her closet) - there is this:

Has anyone else noticed what looks like a horizontal, reddish-brown scar on her neck? It’s pretty visible in that video.

I don’t see it in other pics, but may have missed something.

Wondering if she’d had some sort of surgery?

Otherwise.... a scar? On her *neck?*

For now I’ll skip what goes through my mind. Several awful possibilities.

In general, I can attest that some real nasty DV can be very well hidden behind closed doors.

Again, sorry if this has been addressed already. Can’t follow the thread 24/7!

:) Welcome to Websleuths, @AmaranthaRuth ! :)

I see that your question has already been answered, so I'll just say thank you for joining us!
 
  • #567
  • #568
I believe I asked that question but was rather shocked to read the answer that there was no DV. I mean what C.W. did was the ultimate act of Domestic Violence.

I suspect their Marriage was co-dependent. One or both of their identities were entangled in the very existence of their Relationship. It’s complicated.

Yes I saw that but didn't want to quote you without re-finding your post ( very hard to do, so many pages of questions.) Co-dependency? Could be. So hard to know. The Santa video is the only one where I have heard him speak so much.
She posted 2000 or so videos, I assume that some have him more vocal than others. If anyone knows of any such clips, please do upload
 
  • #569
Hello All — I have lurked for several weeks and followed this case very closely (rare for me.)

I do appreciate the general human decency of this forum and the diligence of the moderators and experts.

What a heartbreaking case...

Here is why I registered, (and I apologize if someone has already addressed this concern.)

In the Christmas video, in Shan’ann’s early close-up talk w the camera about her plans:
(It appears she’s in her closet) - there is this:

Has anyone else noticed what looks like a horizontal, reddish-brown scar on her neck? It’s pretty visible in that video.

I don’t see it in other pics, but may have missed something.

Wondering if she’d had some sort of surgery?

Otherwise.... a scar? On her *neck?*

For now I’ll skip what goes through my mind. Several awful possibilities.

In general, I can attest that some real nasty DV can be very well hidden behind closed doors.

Again, sorry if this has been addressed already. Can’t follow the thread 24/7!
I noticed the mark on her neck also and it is not in other videos.
I had an ex (18years) that not only whom would choke me but would grab me by the neck violently and throw my down, shove me and or throw me into a wall and it would leave marks just like that. It would almost look like a hickey but it was skin being pinched between his fingers. Soooo IMO ONLY that's what the mark on her neck looks like.
I know people have said there was zero DV in this relationship but anyone and everyone whom knows me and or knew me would have said the exact same thing. And I was beat horribly bad but I told no one and my ex was the most loving husband and dad in public, behind closed doors he was a monster. These kind of people do exist.
 
  • #570
My thoughts on the videos.

For me, the strongest theme that came through them all was that SW was attempting to orchestrate a happy and/or funny family situation in each. I've seen plenty of home videos that are laid-back, where the person is just kind of videotaping things as they unfold organically. These videos are not that type imo.

In each, she was very much the director and was directing the other family members to perform their roles. Now this is to some extent normal when trying to document things such as holidays, birthdays, etc., especially with little kids. There is a reason there is a website devoted to pictures of kids screaming on Santa's lap.

Then you have the added element that she is doing the sales for Thrive. I believe that caused her to try even harder to make happy/funny scenes happen while live on video. She was selling a lifestyle and these videos were part of her sales pitch.

I thought the squirting in the face went on for much too long, and that Bella was giving clear indicators that she didn't like it, both verbally and non-verbally. The whipped cream in the face also had the feeling of just going on for too long, repeatedly asking/telling the girls to do it over and over.

I am not going to jump to further assumptions based on three videos, but will file away my impressions and see how they line up as more information comes out.
 
  • #571
BBM.

Yes, she did have surgery on her neck.

I noticed many of her comments (SWs) to people questioning the neck brace were along the lines of "I will private message you" but finally earlier today I happened to stumble across one of the neck brace photos in which she replied to a comment that she had an "anterior cervical discectomy fusion." Not a "light" surgery! Must have been in a lot of pain to have that done.
 
  • #572
I’m a little hesitant to say this so please don’t get all crazy on me. Does anyone else get the impression there’s more to the jabs towards CW? It’s like she’s saying it jokingly, but she also wants it to sting a little. IDK.....I could be reading way too much into it too.
Oh I definitely get the little digs she gets in at CW. IMHO you are spot on.
 
  • #573
It's pretty incredible.

If people saw me in my home I guess they'd think I'm a serial killer based on how people are reacting to some cherry-picked videos on here.

We have to remember a few things:

1. She is holding the camera and trying to film a situation or narrative or whatever. It's her "show" so she's directing. I do the very same thing in videos. "Move there. Come here. Smile!"
2. We literally have the benefit of viewing this family from only one lens. Why? Because the murderer deleted his Facebook a week before the slaughter. He would be likely to post his own videos from his own phone. But that's gone. So we don't know what it looks like when he's on the other end of the camera or when he's running the show. We are getting only one picture. Dissecting this poor dead woman and her family from only one view and cherry-picked videos people are posting in an effort to show she's a monster of some sort.
3. Some people don't parent or treat children with kid gloves. They know kids that age cry a lot. They cry when they want something or don't want something or think something is scary or get mad. So some people don't make a big deal about kids getting upset for a second and try to teach them to be a bit tougher. It's not my style but it's not abuse.
Reminds me of a dear friend of mine. Actually is similar to Shanann in personality. She and her mom. Lots of joking and ribbing. She sort of downplays it when her kids cry or act upset over little things. But the minute they're truly hurt or upset, she's the one they run to. Her husband is a very quiet, stoic person. She is half Italian and outgoing and seems to run the house. But it's not true. He actually does.

It also reminds me of me versus my ex. Scenario? I hear yelling and whining as my ex is roughhousing. "Put him down! He doesn't like it! He's upset!"
"Oh he loves it."
"Damn it put him down!" (It really annoys me).
"If he's upset why isn't he trying to get away? And why does he keep coming back when I put him down?"
(Totally true).

I don't like squirting anyone in the face with anything. I worry about their eyes. And a child can get the idea that a bottle that sprays is a toy to use on another kid's face, not understanding that that's windex or whatever.

That beings said, anyone analzying any good parent for long enough can find things to criticize. And damn it, they do.

It's amazing how harsh people can be about other people's parenting. The Sanctimommies out there just freaking out over every last thing people do with their kids that's shown on tv or online. Just losing their minds over "My God!! You're holding the baby wrong, using the baby sling wrong, using the car seat wrong, you should have done this or that or the other!"

It's endlessly eyerolling to me. We have become a generation of sanctimonious judges of others due in part to the ability to monitor people's parenting on the internet and partly because we are the hysterical "safety" generation and exposing children to the tiniest bit of danger of discomfort is now a cardinal sin.

And it's creating a bunch of kids who don't know the limits of their own bodies or how to problem solve or socialize without their parents' constant supervision and interference and it's creating a bunch of adults who think it's acceptable to pick someone to death over the tiniest flaws they see in photos or videos posted online.

One thing I will say though is that yes, how she interacts in these few, cherry picked videos with her schlub of a husband lurking around in them, may be indicative of a relationship-dynamic that he grew to resent, loathe and eventually to hate her over.

But not because she was a nasty woman, or controlling or mean-spiritited or because he was cowed or abused or a victim or anything else that I've been seeing on here.

Nope. It's because IMO the intensely strong reaction on here and elsewhere, to a woman who is pretty normal, just not a submissive, shrinking violet (reminds me a bit of Leah Remini's character in her tv show. I guess she's a psychopath), tells me that a woman who doesn't adhere to certain societal expectations about gender - that a woman doesn't give directions or instructions to a man, that a woman can't make jokes at a man's expense about winninng or she's a monstrous, emasculating shrew, that a woman can't be in control, decisive and a leader in her relationship with her man or other men, that a normal woman is always exceedingly maternal, soft spoken, submissive, sweet, supportive and yielding- women who don't adhere to those "norms" are soundly punished by society.

I feel Shanann is being punished here for daring to step outside those norms. She's a shrew. She pushed him to murder. She may even have murdered the kids herself.

But what's important is that those norms clearly exist. And if educated, informed people here react to them harshly, what about a man who may not be as educated? What about a man from a traditional family or area? One who is more quiet and introverted? Might he quietly seethe at his woman daring to make decisions or give commands or make an impression or get attention?

I never forget someone on here posted a video SW took of her thrive people dancing. She was giggling and laughing and in the background her husband stood quietly, standing sideways, but his head turned, just silently watching his exuberant wife.

The poster explained that it reminded her so much of her ex husband. Who was a secretly abusive creep. He would watch her like that and I guess count the ways her behavior dislpleased him. He was jealous of her and he punished her later for it.

Well maybe CW wasn't secretly abusive. Maybe he never vocally expressed any displeasure toward her at all. But he clearly punished her in the end anyway. He took away almost everything that mattered to her. He took away her babies her precious children, and he took away her life, the very breath from her body.

She dared to step outside of societal gender norms. People deem that emasculating. IMO far from it but it makes a point. If that's how some normal people view her behavior, what about a person with a secret defect of character?

So in the end, after this long rambling post, in a way I agree with many who say this dynamic might explain some things.

It does. For me it explains that women who dare to veer from certain gender norms are still punished by society. They're deemed not to be good mothers. Bad wives. Wives who pushed their hapless men to violence.

The incredibly strong negative reaction to these cherry picked videos by some who seem to be turning the tables here and deeming the victim to be the abuser and the murderer to be the victim, tells me that the reaction to this strong, decisive woman could be much more deadly on the part of a defective monster who quietly seethed at all she dared to be, and all he never was.

Shanann Watts


Trying to catch up after walking away last night, but excellent post as always, @gitana1
 
  • #574
O/T but CBD is not the same as marijuana. It doesn't contain THC, which is the psychoactive cannabinoid of cannabis.
Yes, I know, but the talk was of pain relief in fibromyalgia..
 
  • #575
The thing is she put this out there for everyone to watch and judge. I don’t post anything on Facebook, because I don’t want any comments or unsolicited advice. This case is particularly interesting because we really do get a peak into their lives. I like Shannann, I feel she is very genuine and even while being dominant, you can tell there’s real feelings/emotions there. I’m analyzing these videos looking at what might be behind CW’s expressions. Obviously he was putting on an act. No loving happy dad murders his kids and throws them in a vat of oil. It’s interesting to see him and know what he did (or allegedly did). I don’t think SW did anything to provoke or cause this horrible crime, but by analyzing their dynamics we can at least try to understand if the relationship was showing cracks and grasp at a reason as to “why” ... as unimaginable as it may seem to us.

Yes, when they begin to understand why.

In my opinion, the defense will use such as this and try to blur the lines between the mitigation stage
 
  • #576
O/T but CBD is not the same as marijuana. It doesn't contain THC, which is the psychoactive cannabinoid of cannabis.
well, what fun is that? I kid, but I'm very close to needing CBD oil for my pain...in the user unfriendly state I live in.
 
  • #577
Of course not, no one would think that SW and her children would deserve that but the videos are very informative as to the dynamics of their relationship.
Yes, I think a lot of stuff is going to come out at trial. SW does seem passive-aggressive towards CW, as though he irritates her and there are some verbal jabs aimed his way. He just seems so flat and colorless and after a few years of marriage maybe they realized they were incompatible. Having a 3rd child to save an ailing marriage (if this was the case) is not a good plan, imho. JUST MOO.
 
  • #578
Yes I saw that but didn't want to quote you without re-finding your post ( very hard to do, so many pages of questions.) Co-dependency? Could be. So hard to know. The Santa video is the only one where I have heard him speak so much.
She posted 2000 or so videos, I assume that some have him more vocal than others. If anyone knows of any such clips, please do upload

The fact that nobody seems to have seen this coming is a first clue... on the surface they appear to be a nice couple and family. I haven’t seen the Christmas video but I saw the other two and they appear to me as strained. Almost as if she started recording to end an unpleasant situation. I can’t put her squirting Bella with the water bottle in front of the Grill on the deck into any sort of context. And the checkers video at flatirons mall just seems pointless as well.
 
  • #579
You can buy CBD over the internet, for pain management. Don't need to move house...
The CBD oil you can buy on the internet does not have THC (the ingredient
O/T but CBD is not the same as marijuana. It doesn't contain THC, which is the psychoactive cannabinoid of cannabis.
Yes, I think a lot of stuff is going to come out at trial. SW does seem passive-aggressive towards CW, as though he irritates her and there are some verbal jabs aimed his way. He just seems so flat and colorless and after a few years of marriage maybe they realized they were incompatible. Having a 3rd child to save an ailing marriage (if this was the case) is not a good plan, imho. JUST MOO.
Yes, I think a lot of stuff is going to come out at trial. SW does seem passive-aggressive towards CW, as though he irritates her and there are some verbal jabs aimed his way. He just seems so flat and colorless and after a few years of marriage maybe they realized they were incompatible. Having a 3rd child to save an ailing marriage (if this was the case) is not a good plan, imho. JUST MOO.

I wonder what they were thinking planning for a 3rd child when they already had serious financial problems and an unhappy marriage.
 
  • #580
Because people who use are pretty open about it, especially if it's for medical purposes. She never once mentioned MJ, and honestly they seem too 'type A' to be cannabis users. Never met another MJ person to be that 'type'.
She was Type A. yup. Him? He tried.
 
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