Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #21

[flourish]

Something that simply does not make sense to me is if he wanted to be free from his marriage why would he kill his family? Wouldn't common sense intervene and tell you that if you get caught you will have no freedom?

Well, them perhaps the "if" in that isn't an "if" at all. Perhaps the motive was not to be free from his family but something entirely different.

 

[kkdj]

Well, them perhaps the "if" in that isn't an "if" at all. Perhaps the motive was not to be free from his family but something entirely different.

Could you elaborate please?

 

[Sark06]

You see kindness, I see someone perhaps trying to make him into what she wanted instead of honoring and appreciating who he was.

Flip some of this... Woman meets man, he insults her style and buys her all new clothes. Kindness or control? Woman is verbally belittled on camera repeatedly by man. Fun joking or verbal abuse?

Rhetorical, of course, but if the genders were reversed this thread would likely read differently. Imo moo blah

JMO I think SW was the insecure one, I think she just did a good job at trying to hide it. Control is rarely an issue about the other person, it's usually about not wanting to feel out of control yourself and that is how I see her behaviour towards CW she is trying to make him comply with her ideal of family life rather than be the boss. JMO it seems to be very important to her that her family is seen as perfect and so where the videos sometimes feel unnatural I think it's because she's trying too hard and has put immense pressure on herself to be perfect

 

[flourish]

Well I'm on the other side, if only that he didn't bother to try to save their lives via 911 or EMS. And the vile burial, disrespecting ppl he supposedly loved. If he had called 911, the evidence could have shown reasonable doubt, IMO, but he didn't, so in my mind the case is too overwhelming against him that I'd have to see the evidence that she killed them before changing my mind. All JMO

I'm very curious how the defense is going to try to address that. I'm guessing it'll be because by the time he had his wits about him everyone was clearly dead, and a) he knew nobody would believe him, b) he wanted to "preserve her reputation" or some such thing like that. I can't generally think like a criminal defense attorney, so it's hard to say, obviously, but... Yeah I'm hoping this trial is one I can see streaming live. Depending on where exactly and when it happens I'm even considering trying to attend at least a bit of it.

 

[Hazelnutty]

Welcome to new members. We're glad to have you join us.

 

[Inthedetails]

Hi, @Inthedetails. I would say that I'll have him create an account and come and tell his opinions himself, but I doubt he'd ever find the time. I can tell you what he said to me about the videos posted from FB.

He felt that CW's smile in the checkers video was odd, considering he wasn't bantering with SW, and that the video seemed nonsensical. Specifically, he said that it was odd how CW was cleaning up the checkers one by one, and that he could imagine that CW was picturing "clocking" SW upside the head with them (DH can have a dark sense of humor, so this didn't surprise me, but he was serious about this considering the gravity of what eventually transpired), he agreed that CW appeared to be seething. SW gave it and CW didn't give it back. We could not relate.

The Pie in the Face video. He said that CW seemed not to interact with the kids at all other than doing what he was told to do, and that he seemed very concerned about the mess that was being made, like he wanted to clean it up as soon as it happened instead of being in the moment. (Yes, we have kids & a clean house also, but when one is playing a game...Maybe Dieter should have been put in another room during the game, if that was their concern). He said that CW looked pissed when his shirt got dirty from the whipped cream, he saw it as him being upset with Bella, I saw it as him being upset with whoever flipped the plastic hand up.

The Santa Video was a bust. He didn't know why they bothered with any of that. CW seemed like an automaton. CW never came back into the video, and SW mentions this, asking, Where is Daddy or Chris? Maybe CW was in the garage texting the AP? None of them seemed to be having much fun in the videos, there was no joy there, just a duty to document it all. Their house decor is oddly impersonal. He said "Daddy left, now lock the door!"

The Water video, he asked "Why is this so long?" The dynamic between CW and SW was tense. He lurked, she snapped, the girls probably wondered why they weren't doing a family activity that everyone enjoyed.

I don't know that any of this is very insightful or helpful, but I was more forgiving on these videos than DH was. In my family my DH is the background player and I, while also an introvert, am the one who all of the decision making falls to. DH is quiet, but polite, and we have had more than our fair share of trauma...maybe this is why it is so difficult for him to understand why CW didn't just restrain SW if that scenario actually played out. To my DH (and to me) our kids mean everything, even if he is reserved with his emotions, you can see the joy and love there. DH's opinion is that SW's type A and CW's type B weren't a good fit, but more than that, CW wasn't emotionally invested in the family. His call is "no way did SW attempt to kill her daughters". CW "checked out emotionally".

Thank you!! Tell your husband we'll make him an honorary WSer - he can shout from the background anytime. He has good insights to share.

Both my husband and I are Type A - I always tell my husband that I've never met anyone with as much energy (and opinions) as he has. In light of that, the videos are a bit hard for me to understand. None of those scenes in the videos would ever fly in my family (which is not a put-down as a whole, just a pointing-out of differences).

I appreciate your reactions to the videos from a couple's point of view. (My guess is that you two work well together, am I right?)

jmo

 

[rainynights]

I did notice that he wasn't wearing the necklace that I had seen in many other photos and videos. Is there some significance behind the necklace (meaning related to SW and the kids)? Perhaps, it is a possibility that the accessories were damaged during whatever happened night/early morning.

Hi all! I'm newly registered, and have been following the threads for weeks trying to catch up, and I'm (almost) caught up. This is truly a tragic story of heartbreak and loss. My heart goes out to the victims, family, friends, and all others affected by this terrible tragedy.

I figured I'd jump in with a first post, in response to the necklace, and whether or not it has any significance. I haven't reviewed any SM in connection to this case, however I do recall seeing the photo showing CW wearing the necklace in question (posted here by a member, from SW's FB iirc). We also know that SW and CW were together on a trip to Punta Cana, DR. Without knowing if he has worn the necklace previous to this trip, IMO, it looks very similar to necklaces I've seen sold by a vendor at a resort I stayed at in Punta Cana. After googling "punta cana tiki necklace" under Google Images, IMO, it looks similar to the necklace he is wearing. So perhaps it is from that trip. JMO.

I'm grateful to WS for providing a safe forum to discuss, and look forward to joining in with you all in the search for the truth.

 

[WildWest]

So they've been on vacation for 6 weeks, he spent one week of that with them, then when they get home, he's in charge of them for 2-3 nights (How many?) and he leaves them with a babysitter? I wonder what hours the babysitter was there that night.

Do we KNOW the babysitter was there THAT saturday night? Or was it another weekend? Forgive me, I'm recalling from the first interview when she spoke, but I cannot recall if it was that exact weekend.

 

[NuttMegg]

Do we KNOW the babysitter was there THAT saturday night? Or was it another weekend? Forgive me, I'm recalling from the first interview when she spoke, but I cannot recall if it was that exact weekend.

Sorry, it was too late to delete that. Another poster pointed out to me in a subsequent post that maybe it's not for sure.

 

[Starkville]

Well, remember Joshie’s mom. I think her name is Kate. She had 8 kids that doctors did all kinds on intense unnecessary things.

Joshie’s mom was the one who said she lived by Desiree, Kyron’s mother. She made up lies about Desiree.

I think everyone was shockec at the serious unnecessary treatments the children received.

Then there was that girl who I cannot remember the name of now—two part name— who with her boyfriend killed the mother.

That mother had doctors giving that child all kinds of intensive treatments. So it does happen.

No way to know if it happened in this case, however.

DeeDee Blancharde was murdered by her daughter Gypsy’s boyfriend. Horrible story. Gypsy went through hell.

There was also the case of Lacey Spears.

These are the extreme cases that end in death.

 

[katydid23]

Yes that was my response, but I still don't know the original comment I was responding too. Just quoting my response and not the original post could lead to it being taken out of context.

Original post you were replying to:

FWIW, my acquaintance who I suspect might have had this syndrome (yes, I am not qualified to diagnosis it, I know that) doctor shopped. All the time. My suspicions was when one doctor was questioning her, she got nervous and found a new one. The new one was always "fabulous," but there was a constant turn-over of new doctors.

Yes, I'm fully aware this doesn't mean SW had the syndrome and I'm fully aware we cannot possibly diagnose it by the videos. We all know kids and adults get sick and that doesn't mean anything except kids and adults get sick!! But we haven't really talked about health all that much and it is an avenue, imo, to explore. Chronic health issues are a stress on the family, real, imagined, or both.

But....people have called it ridiculous and flimsy so what's the point of pursuing something new, even if the something new doesn't pan out. We can talk about oil containers more.



Then you replied that you saw her post that she had a new doctor and she said she was glad that he listened to her.

So I asked if that was a bad thing. I just feel like this Munchausen thing is ridiculous and so unwarranted. It is really sad to watch, imo.

 

[esmerelda]

I think you're on to something. It also fits with my (current) theory that he unintentionally killed one daughter and killed the other in a panic to cover up. And, then, killed SW to avoid her ever knowing, to avoid her wrath and disapproval, etc. jmo

Go ahead, poke holes. It's a working theory, like everything else here.

jmopinion at the moment

I can see that.

 

[Shekkiec]

So you are saying SW comes home at 2 am and strangles the kids? Honestly if thats how it happened there had to be a confrontation, argument about something to escalate her to go after them. The neighbors claim to not have heard anything.

I believe there was a confrontation . The kids were sleeping they may have scaled down bc if that . But then later she went and did it . Why confess to just SW and disposal of bodies ?

 

[flourish]

I have thought this from the start. 3 and 4 year olds come back after 6 weeks in NC. Dad is scattered and all over the map with impending (alleged) financial problems and whoever the affair's with. Birthday party on Sunday and cranky and probably overstimulated kids don't want to eat their dinner (alluding to his strange remark in the tv interview about missing telling them to finish their dinner or no snack/dessert). Kids are crying or tantruming - don't want to eat - don't want to go to bed at their designated time and dad just snaps! it all goes downhill really quickly. CW's mind is going a mile a minute and nothing is anywhere in the realm of rationality. The rest of the night goes even crazier. Now he's got to do something with the bodies The tanks seem a solution at the time because of his knowledge of them and it is in line with his work schedule. I am really, really not trying to minimalize what has done - just trying to understand why he did what he did. No doubt in my mind that I think he killed them all. Now you have the reporters to deal with - I didn't see the gleefulness or delight that others did. I saw someone lying because his own sense of self-preservation is kicking in at this time. I watched that interview when it happened and thought ooh god he has killed all of them. The smiling, the distraction with his shirt feel like completely inappropriate responses that surface up during extreme anxiety. The swallowing when the dogs started barking was a huge giveaway but I think he has gone so far down this rabbithole that he might as well continue the charade. I really don't think he ever thought that his story would fly but the horror of the whole situation is making him fly on adrenaline. Making allegation about Shan'ann is more self=preservation on his part because I don't think his mind has caught up with the reality of what he's done. And at this point he probably isn't going to admit to any affair. This is just my theory - I think it is only CW who really knows exactly what happened. I don't think anything excuses the sheer horror of what happened that night and I think he really knows he is done. I really welcome the VI's input in this. I know some think this has a bias but no situation is going to be completely black or white. I think this is an extreme cautionary tale on so many different levels. Its insightful to look at all the nuances and angles involved. Interesting that it has touched people to the degree of having so many fast moving threads. There have been many more horrifying cases but there is something that is really relatable here. Maybe it is all the social media. Maybe it is because we all know couple like this (before the murders). Maybe because so many of us have been in situation of domestic violence and it touches so many nerves. I don't know and all of it is just my opinion.

This is a really good post. We used to have an emoticon for that...

Anyway

 

[BelleIsle]

Does it have to be a male? Because I’m a Type B introverted woman, and I have a very strong reaction to watching those videos. I grew up with a very domineering mother. That’s what I see. I see everyone walking on eggshells and hoping to please The Boss.

I'm also an introvert and type B by nature, type A by necessity when someone in our introverted household needs to be! I was just surprised that my DH saw things in those videos that I missed, or saw differently.

 

[Jennifer17]

Do we KNOW the babysitter was there THAT saturday night? Or was it another weekend? Forgive me, I'm recalling from the first interview when she spoke, but I cannot recall if it was that exact weekend.

Well, seeing that they were in NC for at least 6 Saturday nights and had only got back to CO four days before SW left that weekend, I don't know how it could have been any other Saturday night.

 

[stereopticons]

DeeDee Blancharde was murdered by her daughter Gypsy’s boyfriend. Horrible story. Gypsy went through hell.

There was also the case of Lacey Spears.

These are the extreme cases that end in death.

Gypsy’s case is extremely sad. But really. There’s absolutely NO evidence that had MBP. At all. She had an autoimmune disorder. Her children probably did have allergies and asthma.

 

[kkdj]

Hi all! I'm newly registered, and have been following the threads for weeks trying to catch up, and I'm (almost) caught up. This is truly a tragic story of heartbreak and loss. My heart goes out to the victims, family, friends, and all others affected by this terrible tragedy.

I figured I'd jump in with a first post, in response to the necklace, and whether or not it has any significance. I haven't reviewed any SM in connection to this case, however I do recall seeing the photo showing CW wearing the necklace in question (posted here by a member, from SW's FB iirc). We also know that SW and CW were together on a trip to Punta Cana, DR. Without knowing if he has worn the necklace previous to this trip, IMO, it looks very similar to necklaces I've seen sold by a vendor at a resort I stayed at in Punta Cana. After googling "punta cana tiki necklace" under Google Images, IMO, it looks similar to the necklace he is wearing. So perhaps it is from that trip. JMO.

I'm grateful to WS for providing a safe forum to discuss, and look forward to joining in with you all in the search for the truth.

Welcome! Glad to have you join here!

 

[flourish]

I’m sorry but With all due respect, this doesn’t make sense to me. He wanted his family back??when he was the one who killed them and put the girls in oil tank and buried his pregnant wife in a shallow grave?? Then during the interview he’s so calm and appears well rested, and happy. All his problems have gone away.

Only if the presumption is it was deliberate murder(s).

Or perhaps some kind of "buyer's remorse," not to make light, but he probably did want them back at that point because he was in a @$&# storm.

 

[MerryB]

True Munchhausen’s-By-Proxy is really extreme and sick. These women harm their children in awful ways - starve them of nutrients, poison them, etc. I cannot believe that Shanann would do that to her children.

But what I can believe is that something was... off.

I believe that what’s being suggested is that SW made up and/or exaggerated her health issues as well as her daughters’ for attention. I do not think anyone has implied that she intentionally made the girls sick. There may have been some misunderstanding of the terms Munchausen Syndrome/Munchausen’s By Proxy/ Factitious Disorder.