Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #22

[esmerelda]

If it was a link to her SM we could. I don’t believe it is though.

Hmmmm.... I followed it from somewhere. No idea. But I can say I haven't found anyplace else to read about this case. Thanks though

 

[DexterMorgan]

SW posted something but we do not know it to be true. We can’t post it here because it’s a SS, not a link.
Our VI disputes the “facts” of this particular incident, however.

How many times has CW lied since day 1 before speaking to his dad at lockup?

How many lies did he tell Nichole, the neighbors, the cops, his supervisor, his friends he stayed with, SW family, his own family, the news reporters, the detectives, his coworkers, his friends, his mistress and even the dog since 6am until the jig was up?

So if you add up how many times he lied; Then why try to give him the benefit of the doubt on 1 statement he made to minimize things?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

<modsnip: snipped response to quote that was removed>

SW's family may come to regret memorialising SW's fb, it's been used to condemn her as a mother and a wife, rightly or wrongly. I suppose it's her turn to take it, CW's character findings have been exhausted and he did accuse her of killing their children. Don't mind I'm arguing with myself, I have been known to be fickle.

Some final thoughts - If we reexamine CW's claims, how could he have seen his child blue in the monitor? This will be his downfall, imo, he's a quick thinker but will struggle answering that question once it's put to him.

Why didn't he say he walked in on SW strangling one of the babies? It's like he had to draw the conclusion straight up that BOTH were dead, he immediately went into a rage, and HAD to kill SW in retaliation. Imo, it's because he wouldn't be able to explain why he entered each child's bedroom to check their welfare before finding SW at it. Why would he automatically think SW harmed the children, so he had to use the monitor showing both Bella and Cece's beds to immediately KNOW, one was dead and the other dying at the hands of her mother.

As sleuthers or crime watchers, we know mothers kill but I'm struggling with SW committing these murders, it isn't similar to other mother/child murders.

She wasn't at home stewing, CW was. She hadn't had the girls for the weekend, CW did. She didn't have 5 weeks away from the children but CW did. SW wasn't having an affair, CW was.

SW showed herself in a positive and negative light on fb, she wouldn't win mother of the year but would CW win father of the year, not even close!
He was a father for a short time, 4 years, and he couldn't last the distance. SW underestimated him, imo, she said he stood by her through her depression, illness, hospital checkups, all the yukky stuff, she thought she had a keeper, probably a man she could dominate and make all her dreams come true, except they weren't his dreams.
It didn't have to end the way it did!

 

[Jennifer17]

<modsnipped removed quoted post>

Yes, a mother has every right to say what her children may or may not have and all of her family should respect that.
My elder daughter was very angry at he younger, childless sister one year, because the mother did not want her children to have screen games when they were very young and her sister bought her children Game Boys. My younger daughter knew that and thought the mother of the kids was being mean.
She was interfering and totally out of line IMO and I told her so.

 

[Waterdog]

I remember back when SP was arrested, there was mention of Laci berating Scott in front of friends on more than one occasion, I don't know. It's not relevant as far as I'm concerned, she might have been fed up with the lies and slipped up in front of friends, can happen to the best of us.
How it relates to Laci or SW being murdered is a hard call, if these women were controlling or highly strung or snobbish or perfectionists, or, a wife who tolerates more than most, in the end, they're dead and their husbands are alive. The downtrodden husband has had his day, the worm has turned.

SW's family may come to regret memorialising SW's fb, it's been used to condemn her as a mother and a wife, rightly or wrongly. I suppose it's her turn to take it, CW's character findings have been exhausted and he did accuse her of killing their children. Don't mind I'm arguing with myself, I have been known to be fickle.

Some final thoughts - If we reexamine CW's claims, how could he have seen his child blue in the monitor? This will be his downfall, imo, he's a quick thinker but will struggle answering that question once it's put to him.

Why didn't he say he walked in on SW strangling one of the babies? It's like he had to draw the conclusion straight up that BOTH were dead, he immediately went into a rage, and HAD to kill SW in retaliation. Imo, it's because he wouldn't be able to explain why he entered each child's bedroom to check their welfare before finding SW at it. Why would he automatically think SW harmed the children, so he had to use the monitor showing both Bella and Cece's beds to immediately KNOW, one was dead and the other dying at the hands of her mother.

As sleuthers or crime watchers, we know mothers kill but I'm struggling with SW committing these murders, it isn't similar to other mother/child murders.

She wasn't at home stewing, CW was. She hadn't had the girls for the weekend, CW did. She didn't have 5 weeks away from the children but CW did. SW wasn't having an affair, CW was.

SW showed herself in a positive and negative light on fb, she wouldn't win mother of the year but would CW win father of the year, not even close!
He was a father for a short time, 4 years, and he couldn't last the distance. SW underestimated him, imo, she said he stood by her through her depression, illness, hospital checkups, all the yukky stuff, she thought she had a keeper, probably a man she could dominate and make all her dreams come true, except they weren't his dreams.
It didn't have to end the way it did!

So eloquently stated, Prime Suspect.

 

[MerryB]

<modsnipped quoted post>

This honestly is a rumor that has gotten passed around & is growing and changing by the moment.
Per TOS we can’t discuss rumors.
@Trinket78 can choose to speak on it if she wishes.
She is a VI & does not need to provide a link.
<modsnipped response to rumor>
Goodnight.

 

[esmerelda]

How many times has CW lied since day 1 before speaking to his dad at lockup?

How many lies did he tell Nichole, the neighbors, the cops, his supervisor, his friends he stayed with, SW family, his own family, the news reporters, the detectives, his coworkers, his friends, his mistress and even the dog since 6am until the jig was up?

So if you add up how many times he lied; Then why try to give him the benefit of the doubt on 1 statement he made to minimize things?

Interesting.... My first guess was someone else.

 

[MKZoo]

I’m a bit confused. Are we debating <modsnipped rumor> that SW made up the allergy along with all of the girls illnesses? I feel like people are blurring these together.

I think it is possible that the parent of a child with a severe food allergy might view the ice cream incident differently than the non-parent - even an undisputed loving grandparent. “Life-threatening allergy” parents tend to be a bit more hard core on such things - especially when a child is very young and doesn’t have the skills to understand their own health decisions. So maybe it’s possible that the each party felt they were justified with the same set of facts? Just a thought.

I’m not sure why, but it feels like some are extrapolating that into a scenario where SW made up a bunch of illnesses that require definitive medical tests to confirm (ie celiac and asthma). They don’t just hand out medications for asthma or an epi pen without diagnosis. Those require prescriptions. So I’m not sure where part is coming from.

As always, my opinion.

 

[Tricia]

Hey Everyone,

I am totally wiped out so I am heading to bed.

This thread will open again in the morning before 7:30 PM Mountain.

I want to thank gitana1, Levi Page and Sheryl McCollum for being great guests on the latest Websleuths Radio. I'm sure these three great people will be on the show again.

Good night everyone,
Tricia

 

[Harmony 2]

Good morning!

The thread is open for posting.


link for graphic

 

[MsBetsy]

I am still trying to read through everything on this case but I wanted to know if the autopsy results have been reported. Do we know for sure that cause of death was from asphyxiation due to strangling? Could the children have been smothered with a pillow or some other object? It was mentioned that the crime may have occurred very late at night so I thought it might be a possibility that they were killed while they were sleeping.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

I am still trying to read through everything on this case but I wanted to know if the autopsy results have been reported. Do we know for sure that cause of death was from asphyxiation due to strangling? Could the children have been smothered with a pillow or some other object? It was mentioned that the crime may have occurred very late at night so I thought it might be a possibility that they were killed while they were sleeping.

They haven't been released. It's not clear if they are going to be made public, as far as I know.

 

[wander24]

Hey Folks- trying to keep up with these threads can be a full time job! I noted a few medical questions posted, and I will ask my wife, DrWander (verified ob gyn) to try to address some of them this weekend. It may be Sunday before she has time to sit down and answer queries for an hour or two, but if there are any specific questions, send them to her or me ( I don’t know if her settings allow for direct messages, as she is concerned about privacy), and I will encourage her to respond.

 

[idfinch]

Frankly, if I was murdered, there's a bunch of VIs who could show up here and say not very nice things about me. None of which would be true, because hardly any of my family has anything to do with me or my kids. They've never been to my house, haven't seen my kids in years, aren't privy to what I post on SM, etc.

My husband is estranged from much of his family for various reasons that are his own. But if God forbid anything happens to either of us, there's zero doubt in my mind that my in-laws would immediately and ferociously throw me under the bus. Even as a victim. It's always my fault, whatever it is. It's taken many years to accept this on both of our parts as it is heartbreaking. It demeans him as a man and capable adult and disrespects us both, plus it's very inaccurate as I adore him and let him lead. I know many women here know exactly what I mean. It's sadly quite common.

As a VI, my MIL would terrify me from beyond. None of it would be correct or without extreme manipulation and bias, but butter wouldn't melt.

So I am not speaking on this case specifically or any VI on this or any case... but I do agree that although it's essential to be respectful, it doesn't automatically make their version of events true. Especially over the victim's own voice. JMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

They haven't been released. It's not clear if they are going to be made public, as far as I know.

Ok, Thank you. In that case I think it is possible that he may have smothered the children with a pillow before his wife came home and then strangled his wife when she arrived home. In his mind it may have been the easiest way since he didn't have to look at their eyes, and they may not have been aware of what was happening, if he killed them in their sleep. This is one theory that supports his acts being intentional and deliberate, Imo. If he snapped and killed all in a rage, the method used seems to be too systematic, imo. I would think stabbing or shooting to death would be more indicative of an act of rage.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Ok, Thank you. In that case I think it is possible that he may have smothered the children with a pillow before his wife came home and then strangled his wife when she arrived home. In his mind it may have been the easiest way since he didn't have to look at their eyes, and they may not have been aware of what was happening, if he killed them in their sleep. This is one theory that supports his acts being intentional and deliberate, Imo. If he snapped and killed all in a rage, the method used seems to be too systematic, imo. I would think stabbing or shooting to death would be more indicative of an act of rage.

That makes a lot of sense but many posters have pointed out that his story is that SW strangled them and therefore he would need the cause of death to match. So he would have suggested he saw her suffocating them... or something?

 

[msphilosopher]

So.

I do not care whether SW was verbally abusive to CW or not. It’s irrelevant, IMO.

There's no justification for what has been done. CW had the strength to overpower Shanann and the girls, Shanann did not.

 

[MsBetsy]

From everything I have seen and read so far, it seems likely that CW may have ASPD or Narcississtic Personality. Since his wife was dominant, ( using her description) and she seems to have been determined to have things a certain way, I can see how this would be an issue for him. In some videos he appears to be detached, or as one poster said just " going through the motions." Perhaps he had made up his mind that she and the kids did not serve his purpose any longer, or they had become an obstacle in his life. Maybe he did " snap." The main thing that makes me feel he has one of these disorders is the way it seemed to come so easy to him to lie and cover up his tracks. His " act" of being the concerned and grieving husband was just that, an act. It's not surprising to me that others around him don't see through his behavior as people like this are very good at mimicking human emotions. They are also good at deception. Jmo

 

[rainynights]

Good morning Sleuthers!

For those who missed last night's WS Radio, you can listen in by clicking the link within the banner at the top of the page. I was glad to discover that this AM, and am really enjoying the show.

Kudos to @gitana1!

Note: I found your breakdown of the charges to be very helpful, especially the comparison that in making sure the baby was not born by killing the mother, CW was, in a way, "killing two birds with one stone." When put in those words, it further magnifies the scope of what he has done.

JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

That makes a lot of sense but many posters have pointed out that his story is that SW strangled them and therefore he would need the cause of death to match. So he would have suggested he saw her suffocating them... or something?

I believe he made up that story to justify his actions. I explained why in some earlier posts yesterday. Of course it is all my opinion! But yes, he did mention that she strangled them, but maybe he knows it would be difficult to tell from an autopsy.