Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #22

[Amandaaa]

It’s a shame, because there’s much more to this story than what appears on the surface, IMO.
Many people do not want to hear anything that does not fit with their pre-existing knowledge & beliefs.
While we are all entitled to our own opinions, I encourage everyone to try to remain open-minded, just as we would be instructed to be if seated on a jury.

This is exactly what I’ve been thinking... we have SO little actual information about this case - most of which comes from the affidavit - and then an awful lot of rumor and conjecture and dubious conclusions.

Believe me, I am not at ALL trying to ignore or minimize or excuse what C.W. has confessed to doing... but as for the rest there are still so many unknowns. I’m quite honestly shocked by some of what I’ve been seeing... people don’t just have an “opinion” about this case - they seem utterly *convinced* of CW’s guilt (beyond his confession) and are unwilling to entertain any information that isn’t in line with the conclusion they’ve already reached.

Regarding the charges - as with everything, take them with a grain of salt. Prosecutors charge the most serious offenses - which will often include multiple lesser included offenses - they are being conservative to cover their bases. Later on it has to be shown that there’s enough evidence to have those charges actually go to trial. The fact that charges are brought initially does not mean those charges will actually get to trial.

And even if those charges get to trial - remember that CW is presumed innocent until proven guilty, and he is entitled to be heard by a jury of his peers. His version of events is at odds with the charges and he has denied killing the girls. It is absolutely imperative that those jurors be willing to look at ALL the evidence and consider this case as specifically instructed. The jury can’t just reach the conclusion that he’s guilty of killing the girls, simply because he put them in the oil tanks - he’s admitted to that, and it’s a separate charge. The State has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he killed them - and has to prove each and every element of the crime. It is easy to see why it’s important for C.W., as his life is at stake - but it’s also a critical part of our justice system as a whole.

At this stage, I haven’t seen anything that would make me believe he killed them - nor have I seen anything that would make me believe she did, either. The Facebook videos may provide a little insight into their respective personalities and the nature of the relationship, but I don’t see anything that would indicate either of them would be capable of killing the girls...yet one of them did. I also don’t draw much (if anything) from his interviews - I viewed him as being nervous and untruthful, not delighted or gloating. We know he was lying, regardless of which version of events is to be believed - so IMO, his demeanor fits.

I am very interested to hear from people who knew CW and SW. It’s not victim blaming - it’s first hand observations and opinions and I think it’s relevant to helping to understand their personalities and relationship and how it got to this point. That being said, I’m not sure it really helps me figure out who killed the girls.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Waterdog]

Link please, TIA

Give me a few please. For the record, it's my opinion that he is a monster, and I also think that if someone else says he's a monster it is their opinion as well.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Maybe I have that wrong, then, how did he open the garage door after saying the key pad was broken? IIRC I remember the discussion about the garage not having a side door, photos were posted. So he was in effect saying that she left for the imaginary play date via the garage door, swung up from the inside? After SHE blocked the front door and the sliding door from opening? Bizarre.

A car garage door opener.

 

[SausagePizza]

Would it be possible for admin @Tricia when she starts a new thread #23 on this case possibly tomorrow? To add a poll question? The results of a poll for this case may be interesting for members. Or place the poll in the poll forum?

 

[Seattle1]

Maybe I have that wrong, then, how did he open the garage door after saying the key pad was broken? IIRC I remember the discussion about the garage not having a side door, photos were posted. So he was in effect saying that she left for the imaginary play date via the garage door, swung up from the inside? After SHE blocked the front door and the sliding door from opening? Bizarre.

I believe CW used the remote to open garage door when he arrived. It was more concerning to me that he did not tell LE to break the door down (i.e., LE phoned CW to ask for code entry, and his reply was it didn't work)! No, I believe he was furious that NAU called the police -- that wasn't part of the plan. MOO

 

[Thepoet]

My husband is estranged from much of his family for various reasons that are his own. But if God forbid anything happens to either of us, there's zero doubt in my mind that my in-laws would immediately and ferociously throw me under the bus. Even as a victim. It's always my fault, whatever it is. It's taken many years to accept this on both of our parts as it is heartbreaking. It demeans him as a man and capable adult and disrespects us both, plus it's very inaccurate as I adore him and let him lead. I know many women here know exactly what I mean. It's sadly quite common.

As a VI, my MIL would terrify me from beyond. None of it would be correct or without extreme manipulation and bias, but butter wouldn't melt.

So I am not speaking on this case specifically or any VI on this or any case... but I do agree that although it's essential to be respectful, it doesn't automatically make their version of events true. Especially over the victim's own voice. JMO.

Very well said. Bravo. Being a VI doesn't mean the person is not biased. It also doesn't mean they don't have an agenda. (As you say) I respect a request for anonymity, but not knowing who the person is greatly effects my acceptance of any opinions or information from that person (VI). A family friend would be different from a family member, a personal best friend of one party would be different from a group friend, and so on. Everyone has preferences, prejudices, and motivations regardless of a designation. I also wonder; if this person was so close and knows so much, why aren't they a witness? If they are a witness why are they allowed to post here?

 

[Mrspratcher]

Good morning Sleuthers!

For those who missed last night's WS Radio, you can listen in by clicking the link within the banner at the top of the page. I was glad to discover that this AM, and am really enjoying the show.

Kudos to @gitana1!

Note: I found your breakdown of the charges to be very helpful, especially the comparison that in making sure the baby was not born by killing the mother, CW was, in a way, "killing two birds with one stone." When put in those words, it further magnifies the scope of what he has done.

JMO

Amazing job, @gitana1 !!

 

[Madison418]

Shannan Watts Murdered Along with her Two Children - is her Husband Responsible?

Thanks so much !!

 

[Inthedetails]

Absolutely. Although I don't see anything that points to that, but I don't think we can rule it out either.

I think we have hints that point to that:

* He was taking care of the two kids after they just returned home from an extended time away and Mom just left for out-of-town trip. That can be a tough transition and tough transitions can mean fussy kids and impatient parents.
* They spent the afternoon at a birthday party. Again, that can mean wound-up kids and impatient parent.
* He had just spent several weeks on his own and it's entirely possible he enjoyed it and was not enjoying being a single-dad that weekend. His temper may have been short.
* He mentions he wishes the kids could come back so he could tell them to finish their dinner. Odd comment. Possibly a clue to their last interaction or a clue to what set him off. Yes, this is a guess, not a fact.
* An accidental death doesn't mean he strangled her accidentally. Perhaps she died another way. We don't know yet.

Perhaps he lost his temper at a fussy kid at dinner and unintentionally killed a daughter. The other daughter likely witnessed the temper and violence. So in a panic he killed her too. Then he killed his wife.

I do not think he showed his wife the deceased children but the exact opposite. I don't think he wanted her to know anything, didn't want to face her wrath, but just wanted it over with. I don't think he really "wanted" to kill everyone....but, of course, he did and he is responsible.

Just a theory I have going. Not the only one, but it's the one that makes sense to me. And it's a change from my original theory that he planned the murders. I changed my mind after viewing the videos that others find objectionable to draw conclusions from. I did draw a working-theory conclusion, but I still think he's the guilty party.

jmopinion at the moment, subject to change as we learn more

 

[Waterdog]

Showed no facial expression - could happen. In fact, this is how he comes across in the videos, so this might be simply him. There are people who can not cry under any circumstances.

That he lied and withheld an important piece of information, asking kids to return home, saying that they meant a world to him, having just dumped their bodies in oil, might be somewhat more difficult to explain by his reserved and introverted personality.

In short - I don't believe his story at all as he has already lied, but am not holding him liable for the way he came across during the interview, or on videos.

Well, we can't believe his story as he told it in the interviews as it's already been stated by him after the fact that he killed SW and disposed of his family. So now we know his behavior is because he was lying. I feel the interviews are irrelevant at this point, except for possibly them being used against him by the prosecution.

 

[msphilosopher]

That’s just it. Nobody is saying his actions are justified. No matter what the circumstances were CW murdering SW and baby Niko is NOT justified. We are only looking what could have potentially contributed to a failing relationship.

Verbal abuse "potentially contributing to a failing relationship" resulting in murder IS a justification or "potential" justification, IMHO.

I don't think you personally believe CW is justified in his actions so don't get me wrong. But that's the role this plays in the discussion IMO.

 

[NuttMegg]

Give me a few please. For the record, it's my opinion that he is a monster, and I also think that if someone else says he's a monster it is their opinion as well.

Well, pretty big deal if the prosecuting atty is publicly saying the defendant is a monster. IMO

 

[Waterdog]

I'm right there with you. As obvious as this should be, I feel the need to point out two things:

1. There is no such thing as accidental strangulation.
2. Murder is a choice.

I get what you're saying and it's true in this case but it's not always true in every case.

 

[NanZDrew]

I think this is the breaking news! LE has asked for CW’s fingerprints, handprints, palm prints, and DNA. Yesterday, the guest medical examiner on AB was talking about just that. He explained that whoever strangled the children will have left fingerprints, finger impressions, markings, or finger damage on their necks. Examiners are able to size them, according to the size of the injury, and they can include or eliminate possible suspects. I’m thinking there is a strong possibility that Bella and CeCe were left with marks on their necks, and C.W. and S.W. have totally different size hands. They’re going to be able to offer forensic evidence proving which one of them actually killed the children.

What if he suffocated the children with a pillow and then placed Shan'ann's hands on their necks and place his hand and fingers directly on top of hers and squeezed to make the bruises match her fingers. Remember how insistant the defense was on wanting DNA evidence from the neck? I Originally, I thought the crude would destroy that, but it wouldn't have if he had placed their bodies in bags and dropped bag and body in the crude.

 

[lorelei2017]

Well, pretty big deal if the prosecuting atty is publicly saying the defendant is a monster. IMO

Exactly! That is professional misconduct, should be removed from the trial

 

[Waterdog]

Scratch that. I think I have cases mixed up. I think that was Mollie Tibbet's murderer's new lawyer that did that. Oh, I need sleep!

I don't know, now I think I'm misremembering. :-O

 

[Waterdog]

Well, pretty big deal if the prosecuting atty is publicly saying the defendant is a monster. IMO

Not THE prosecuting attorney...an attorney on the case. But still a big deal, yes.

 

[Inthedetails]

I don't know, now I think I'm misremembering. :-O

That happens. It's why we like links.

jmo

 

[Seattle1]

I didn't see formal announcement but our @Mrspratcher is now a WS verified attorney! Thank you for sharing with us!

 

[whisperOFwings]

Hey Everyone,

I am totally wiped out so I am heading to bed.

This thread will open again in the morning before 7:30 PM Mountain.

I want to thank gitana1, Levi Page and Sheryl McCollum for being great guests on the latest Websleuths Radio. I'm sure these three great people will be on the show again.

Good night everyone,
Tricia

BBM
I am listening to it right now, very interesting. Great job guys!!