Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #22

[MerryB]

This is exactly what I’ve been thinking... we have SO little actual information about this case - most of which comes from the affidavit - and then an awful lot of rumor and conjecture and dubious conclusions.

Believe me, I am not at ALL trying to ignore or minimize or excuse what C.W. has confessed to doing... but as for the rest there are still so many unknowns. I’m quite honestly shocked by some of what I’ve been seeing... people don’t just have an “opinion” about this case - they seem utterly *convinced* of CW’s guilt (beyond his confession) and are unwilling to entertain any information that isn’t in line with the conclusion they’ve already reached.

Regarding the charges - as with everything, take them with a grain of salt. Prosecutors charge the most serious offenses - which will often include multiple lesser included offenses - they are being conservative to cover their bases. Later on it has to be shown that there’s enough evidence to have those charges actually go to trial. The fact that charges are brought initially does not mean those charges will actually get to trial.

And even if those charges get to trial - remember that CW is presumed innocent until proven guilty, and he is entitled to be heard by a jury of his peers. His version of events is at odds with the charges and he has denied killing the girls. It is absolutely imperative that those jurors be willing to look at ALL the evidence and consider this case as specifically instructed. The jury can’t just reach the conclusion that he’s guilty of killing the girls, simply because he put them in the oil tanks - he’s admitted to that, and it’s a separate charge. The State has to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he killed them - and has to prove each and every element of the crime. It is easy to see why it’s important for C.W., as his life is at stake - but it’s also a critical part of our justice system as a whole.

At this stage, I haven’t seen anything that would make me believe he killed them - nor have I seen anything that would make me believe she did, either. The Facebook videos may provide a little insight into their respective personalities and the nature of the relationship, but I don’t see anything that would indicate either of them would be capable of killing the girls...yet one of them did. I also don’t draw much (if anything) from his interviews - I viewed him as being nervous and untruthful, not delighted or gloating. We know he was lying, regardless of which version of events is to be believed - so IMO, his demeanor fits.

I am very interested to hear from people who knew CW and SW. It’s not victim blaming - it’s first hand observations and opinions and I think it’s relevant to helping to understand their personalities and relationship and how it got to this point. That being said, I’m not sure it really helps me figure out who killed the girls.

Just my 2 cents...

Thank you @Amandaaa for a great post. Glad to have you with us at WS. I’m also pleased to see you do not suffer from confirmation bias & are able to look at the whole picture.

 

[Waterdog]

I retract what I said earlier, it was an le on the case. But because of the manner in which it was shared I'm not certain I can post the link. If I can get the proper link I will. But as it is, it was her opinion, and I concur with her opinion. Also, we do know for a fact that the defense is accusing the DA of leaking information (link posted previously in this thread) so it's not necessarily false info.

 

[gitana1]

Wow.....the clique that wants to stifle discussion of the dynamics behind all of this are still out in force. If you say something other than trying to diagnose CW with some off the wall psych disorder they will try to accuse you of 'victim shaming'. Some only want an echo chamber.

To be fair, CW is charged with five counts of first degree murder after an analysis of the evidence by law enforcement and the DA. We have three videos and witness accounts of his behavior both directly before (Sunday barbecue) and right after the murders.

His behavior under the circumstances coupled with the charges and his reputation as a good dad previous to this is, I think most would agree, bizarre at best and compares with many family annihilators/murderers from past cases like Neil Entwhistle, Ross Harris, scott Peterson, Jeffrey MacDonald.

It makes sense that people would seek to find some sort of psych issue to explain what he's accused of doing and his behavior as we've all witnessed.

On the other hand, SW has been accused of nothing by LE and the charges belie the story CW would have us believe.

She has lots of close friends who've been interviewed and attest to her character. There is zero evidence that she harmed her children.

And yet, despite all that, there have been incredible attempts to diagnose her based on a few cherry-picked videos among hundreds she's posted, and even things like photos of her closets:

1. OCD
2. Hypochondria.
3. Drug abuser.
4. Borderline personality disorder
5. Narcissist.
6. Histronic or even allusions to Munchasusen's.

The list goes on.

Under the circumstances - five counts of first degree murder, no lesser includeds charged, glib lying and smiling in interviews after the horrors that occurred in that house, etc., which do you think is the more reasonable reaction?

 

[Waterdog]

BBM


I definitely misunderstood then, b/c I quoted you:

Innocent of ill intent - I didn't mean it as you think he is innocent of all of it, obviously he's not, but I mean ill-intent in that it was not premeditated days before...that he had this all planned out. Premeditation can happen moments before, though.

 

[MJPeony]

Believe me -- how I wish it was a psychotic break. However, mental experts have opined that calm, collected, and even joyful media interviews 36-48 hours later do not follow psychotic breaks.

Thanks. I didn't get a chance to hear the live conversation last night and I wasn't aware that had been discussed. Hopefully I can listen to it today. I definitely value the mental health expert opinion on this, as I really don't understand the difference between psychotic breaks, psychosis, phychopath, etc.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

@margarita25 Yep, its the only reason I'm here. (Sorry, couldn't reply on the older thread with your quote but hopefully you'll know what I mean)

I'm glad you're here with us.

 

[Mrspratcher]

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/[K] PEOPLE'S MOTION FOR NON-TESTIMONIAL IDENTIFICATION PROCEDURE PURSUANT TO COLORADO RULES OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, RULE 16 II (a) (1).pdf

@Layla123 @NuttMegg

CW has a 5th Amendment right to remain silent. That right is limited to CW’s statements (testimonial evidence). However, the evidence the State is requesting is non-testimonial in nature.

The Motion highlights the fact that CW will not be required to speak, and if the analyst collecting the evidence speaks to him, it’s limited to general instructions/information.

 

[NuttMegg]

But what else could he say?

The part I think is bizarre is that he arranged the doors of the house to imply that she left via the big garage door, yet left her purse behind, yet took the opener for when she came back. Probably entry to the house was just blocked so no one could get in before he cleaned up the scene, and I'm giving him credit for even planning a story for her own exit from the house. He probably hadn't thought that far ahead.

I know my series of posts was confusing, as I was thinking that he was standing there in front of the garage with the friend and LE when he said the pad was broken, and I assumed he meant the whole door was broken, which is why I asked how he got in then. Someone corrected me, apparently he said that the code pad didn't work, when he was in the car coming home, and several have pointed out that he opened the door with the opener when he arrived in the truck.

 

[cshea99]

He said in his interview the garage door was unlocked.
Wonder why police couldn't have just walked in then and what all the keypad nonsense was all about... I'm sure this has been addressed many, many threads back and I've forgotten!

The door to the garage/house was unlocked. The keypad to get into the garage was broken or something. So they couldn't walk in because they couldn't get in the garage.

 

[Seattle1]

@cshea99 said: ↑
I have screenshots of SW talking about the nut incident and the reaction Bella had to them. Am I allowed to post them?

If link no longer available, I think you can paraphrase (no copy paste) what you read in screen shot as your opinion, but be certain to emphasize it's your opinion only.

I alerted on my own post a while back to ask about screenshots and Sillbilly told us they were not allowed. AFAIK, paraphrasing and posting as your own opinion is okay, but I wouldn't want to get anyone in trouble, so JMO! Lol

Agree and thanks! I also edited my reply to emphasize "paraphrase."

 

[MJPeony]

I wish more people would come forward whom knew CW pre SW.
Ex girlfriends, maybe some ex co workers. Lots of silence

I highly doubt they will. This is not a case where there will be people willing to open up on their opinions of the guy sitting in jail with a x4 homicide charge. Think about Trinket- and she/he's anonymous. I can't imagine them going public.

 

[PommyMommy]

Well JMD was convicted of killing wife, killing 1 daughter possibly not meaning to while swinging the club on the wife, then stabbing to death the other little girl who stayed in her own bed, per blood analysis. Note he didn't club the last one, he only stabbed her to death. 2nd deg, 2nd deg, 1st degree to make it match his "kill the pigs, acid is groovy" BS. Then stabbed himself, to puncture his own lung slightly, THEN called 911. So, re your last sentence, he did similar to what you mention except killed only one to cover it up, and before he called 911.

I don't believe the multiple blows to Kimberley's head were accidental. And, although I find it useful to compare that case to this one, we were instructed in a prior thread to cease discussion of the MacDonald case, so I don't wish to belabor the point. I do understand what you're saying.

 

[NuttMegg]

I don't believe the multiple blows to Kimberley's head were accidental. And, although I find it useful to compare that case to this one, we were instructed in a prior thread to cease discussion of the MacDonald case, so I don't wish to belabor the point. I do understand what you're saying.

You're right I'll delete it. I understood the admonition to only discuss parts that related to the CW case.

 

[Asevario]

How could Shan'nan have entered her own house if she couldn't have entered the front door because he had the inner latch blocking it, and she couldn't have entered the back sliding door because he had placed a piece of metal or wood stopping the door from opening, and if the key pad on the garage door wasn't working, per CW? Do I have that correct? If his wife came back from her "play date" with the little girls, she would not have been able to enter the house except thru possibly a window? Willing to hear corrections to the above, which is IIRC.

This very interesting! Where did you find the info on the wood or metal blocking the sliding glass? I'd like to look deeper into that!

 

[Seattle1]

To be fair, CW is charged with five counts of first degree murder after an analysis of the evidence by law enforcement and the DA. We have three videos and witness accounts of his behavior both directly before (Sunday barbecue) and right after the murders.

His behavior under the circumstances coupled with the charges and his reputation as a good dad previous to this is, I think most would agree, bizarre at best and compares with many family annihilators/murderers from past cases like Neil Entwhistle, Ross Harris, scott Peterson, Jeffrey MacDonald.

It makes sense that people would seek to find some sort of psych issue to explain what he's accused of doing and his behavior as we've all witnessed.

On the other hand, SW has been accused of nothing by LE and the charges belie the story CW would have us believe.

She has lots of close friends who've been interviewed and attest to her character. There is zero evidence that she harmed her children.

And yet, despite all that, there have been incredible attempts to diagnose her based on a few cherry-picked videos among hundreds she's posted, and even things like photos of her closets:

1. OCD
2. Hypochondria.
3. Drug abuser.
4. Borderline personality disorder
5. Narcissist.
6. Histronic or even allusions to Munchasusen's.

The list goes on.

Under the circumstances - five counts of first degree murder, no lesser includeds charged, glib lying and smiling in interviews after the horrors that occurred in that house, etc., which do you think is the more reasonable reaction?

This .. 5+ stars!

 

[NuttMegg]

This very interesting! Where did you find the info on the wood or metal blocking the sliding glass? I'd like to look deeper into that!

It was discussed a lot on the first few threads of the case. Sorry I don't remember exactly when.

 

[Madison418]

I wish more people would come forward whom knew CW pre SW.
Ex girlfriends, maybe some ex co workers. Lots of silence

I was thinking this last night! Need more character witnesses to get a better understanding of the person he is.

 

[Inthedetails]

delete again sorry

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Colorado youth autopsies would be removed from public documents in measure on verge of final passage – The Denver Post

PUBLISHED: May 8, 2018

This article is discussing a new bill. Does anybody know where the bill is right now?

"Colorado lawmakers are on the verge of approving a bill removing autopsy reports involving minors from public documents available under the Colorado Open Records Act.....
The late-session bill was approved overwhelmingly by both chambers — 63-2 in the Democrat-led House and 32-3 in the Republican-led Senate. The House’s vote Tuesday sends the bill back to the Senate, which, after considering minor amendments, is expected to send it to Democratic Gov. John Hickenlooper.....

Under Colorado law, surviving families and other parties can ask a judge to seal a minor’s autopsy report. The bill allows parents and legal guardians, law enforcement, criminal defendants and various state agencies to access reports..."

Bumping as folks are still asking about autopsy and time of death. I still don't know the answer to if this bill has passed. We may not know until trial the autopsy results?

 

[PommyMommy]

I hear ya. That is a sticky point.

The only answer I can come up with to explain why he wouldn't call 911 after accidentally killed a child is: panic, fear, a dash of hope he could cover it up. But mostly panic and fear.

And by that, I mean fear of the legal consequences as well as fear of facing his wife after she finds out (even if an accident), fear of facing family and public knowledge that he did such a horrible thing. Imagine telling your spouse you killed your child. I'd rather die than do that, but perhaps he just wanted to cover it all up from her instead.

Panic and fear can kill logic.

But, IDK, of course, if this scenario happened, but it seems to fit his personality more than a planned murder of all his children and wife. (though I do still consider that a possibility)

Disclaimer: I think he is responsible. I'll easily change ideas when the facts lead me in another direction. I know other people have different opinions and I know people don't like when I think aloud on the board and try out new ideas. My opinion changed after seeing the videos but I know other people see no hints of anything in the videos.

jmo

I don't mind you thinking aloud. I just can't wrap my head around a child suffering an accidental injury and a parent not calling 911 and trying to save their life. Whether the child is breathing or not breathing, I'm going to call because my concern for their life would outweigh all else.