Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #22

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  • #901
Like I mentioned earlier today, if CW is a narcissist he truly believes someone made his life so miserable that he had to kill. Of course walking away would have been the best answer. Could have moved away and stayed out of sight for a while. Although this is not the same thing, but remember when one of Olivia Newton John's boyfriend disappeared and was found like in Mexico nine years later. I honestly think I could drop off the grid and move someplace remote and no one would know me or even care who I was.

Believe me, at many times in my life, I have wanted to drop off the grid and become invisible.
 
  • #902
The burden of proving an affirmative defense would fall on the party raising the defense. If CW raises a defense of others defense, he would have the burden of proving it.

Yes, and interestingly, the burden of proof is not always "beyond a reasonable doubt."

I'm not sure what the standard is in Colorado, but in Texas, if the defendant pleads that an exception to a crime applies, then the State has the BOP to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the exception does not apply. On the other hand, if the defendant raises an affirmative defense and presents some proof of that, then the defendant has the burden to prove the affirmative defense, but it is only by a preponderance of the evidence.

This is real inside baseball stuff.

PENAL CODE CHAPTER 2. BURDEN OF PROOF
 
  • #903
Evidently not so ridiculous to the DA who wants CW's DNA and prints.

But we don't know that they want the prints for the tanks. I have a feeling the prints are for the neck bruises instead. JMO
 
  • #904
Haven‘t read the last 18 or so threads (I hate mega threads) but listened to the podcast. @gitana1 you were doing great and I hope @Tricia there will be a part 2 (and 3, 4, 5, etc.)! :)
 
  • #905
CW's DNA and prints could prove their case beyond any reasonable doubt. They must be very confident in what they are going to find or they wouldn't have asked for it.
or CW's prints could disprove the DA's case re: the murder of the children for which CW is charged in the first degree. JMO
 
  • #906
I have alexa also. Every so often she talks without a question being asked to her. I think she is listening and more than likely bored too death at my house.

That's what will cause the rise of the machines: boredom!
 
  • #907
We really do not know SW or CW except for the verified insiders know them. They made beautiful little girls that deserved a chance at life. I cannot imagine anything so terrible that would justify multiple murders in their lives. SW could have been the meanest and most hateful person on Earth but did she deserved to be murdered - NO.
 
  • #908
Let me try to answer your question. (Sorry in advance if this answer gets too long.)

I used to do some criminal defense work back in the early part of my career. I practiced in a rural area, and if you were an attorney practicing in that county and you did any trial work and you didn't work for the district attorney's office, then you were expected to take court-appointed cases representing indigent criminal defendants. So it wasn't a big part of my practice, but I did enough to get my feet wet. Since I was taking criminal court appointments anyway, I also did some private pay criminal defense cases.

I digress, but I will say that part of the reason that I became a lawyer in a rural area was the influence of To Kill a Mockingbird and the ideal of Atticus Finch.

Some of the differences between private and public defenders (PDs) are small and some are large. We presume both are competent and want to do a good job. Court-appointed public defenders are paid a small fraction of the money demanded by private criminal defense attorneys. For instance, (this information is old) I might have charged a private-pay client $2,500 to defend a DWI case; whereas in a court-appointed case, the county might pay me $500.

Today, many areas, especially more populous areas, are served by public defenders offices, which are attorneys hired by an agency of the county or state and paid a salary with some benefits. (I need to look up whether PDs are paid as much as ADAs with similar experience. They should be!) But these PDs have a caseload: that is, a number of cases that they are assigned at one time. Generally, they have lots of cases and lots of clients to represent, so it is physically impossible to spend much time with any one client. Private attorneys have the luxury of spending more time because they have fewer cases, and that's one reason they charge more.

In a high-profile case like the present one, I'm sure several PD attorneys, investigators and support staff are assigned to this case. I cannot say how many other cases those attorneys may have on their caseload, but it is understood that a significant amount of time will need to be devoted to this case.

Not sure about Colorado, but in the state where I used to practice, if the case was a "capital murder" case (meaning that the punishment range included the possibility of the death sentence), then defense attorneys on those cases had to be specially certified for competency.

The defense's job is to 1) ensure the defendant gets a fair trial; 2) obtain a not guilty verdict if possible; and 3) obtain the lowest sentence possible.

The defendant gets to direct the strategy of the defense; meaning, he gets to decide whether he is going to testify; the nature of the defense; etc. The lawyer, with the assistance of the client, makes what we could call "tactical" decisions; such as what witnesses to interview, subpoena to testify, what questions to ask at trial, etc.

The defense lawyer has two loyalties here. He is an officer of the court, which means he can't lie or mislead the court or jury (he cannot put on evidence that he knows is false), and he is bound by the law and the rules of procedure and evidence. He also has a duty to inform the client of the law and the facts, so the client can make informed decisions; and he is bound to follow the defendant's stated strategy, if he can do so within the bounds of the law and ethics.

Some attorneys say you shouldn't ask the client if he is guilty or not because you don't really want to know the answer to that question. I always asked my client for their version of the facts, and I took them as true unless my common sense told me otherwise. If confronted with a situation where the client's story doesn't seem possible, then I would ask him about it (not grill). You always want your defense to seem as plausible as possible. You can't build a credible case around something that is ridiculous (your word).

In the end, I wasn't always 100% comfortable practicing criminal defense because it didn't set well with me having to establish reasonable doubt when I didn't believe it myself. There's a line there somewhere, and I wasn't comfortable stirring up confusion when it didn't seem appropriate. (Other defense attorneys can chime in here---lots of them do a great job without it bothering their consciences, and they do it ethically.)

I hope that helps. Sorry so long.

Edited for clarification


Thank you for sharing this. Very insightful!
 
  • #909
That's why the DA is doing it, to rule CW in or out in the deaths of the children. JMO

"If the handprints don't fit.....
 
  • #910
or CW's prints could disprove the DA's case re: the murder of the children for which CW is charged in the first degree. JMO

True. But if the DA thought those handprints were going to disprove their case, they wouldn't be working so hard to get them, imo.

And if the defense thought those prints were going to clear their client, they'd have handed them over already. Which they haven't.
 
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  • #911
But we don't know that they want the prints for the tanks. I have a feeling the prints are for the neck bruises instead. JMO
I haven't suggested they want the prints to compare to the tanks, other posters have suggested it but I believe the request is because of the results of the autopsy. The Defense specifically requested that DNA be taken from the neck of the children and from under SW's nails. JMO
 
  • #912
  • #913
or CW's prints could disprove the DA's case re: the murder of the children for which CW is charged in the first degree. JMO
Absolutely. If we see two of the murder charges dropped we'll know they didn't get the results they anticipated and they're dealing with it. It's my own experience that tells me they are confident what will be revealed. JMO.
 
  • #914
I haven't suggested they want the prints to compare to the tanks, other posters have suggested it but I believe the request is because of the results of the autopsy. The Defense specifically requested that DNA be taken from the neck of the children and from under SW's nails. JMO
Yes, but the defence did that because CW claims that SW strangled them, and they have to go along with his story. It was refused because the coroner would do that anyway.
 
  • #915
I haven't suggested they want the prints to compare to the tanks, other posters have suggested it but I believe the request is because of the results of the autopsy. The Defense specifically requested that DNA be taken from the neck of the children and from under SW's nails. JMO

Right. And the State has been requesting that the defendant hand over his handprints for the autopsy as well.

I think there is a greater chance that there will be bruising in the neck tissue then there will be DNA left on those little necks after the oil bath.


I also think the defense asked for those tests back then, so publicly, because they were bluffing--trying to act like they had some chance at exoneration.
 
  • #916
We really do not know SW or CW except for the verified insiders know them. They made beautiful little girls that deserved a chance at life. I cannot imagine anything so terrible that would justify multiple murders in their lives. SW could have been the meanest and most hateful person on Earth but did she deserved to be murdered - NO.
I can only speak from my own perspective but if I saw my spouse kill my child, I would have no problem killing him. JMO
 
  • #917
I can only speak from my own perspective but if I saw my spouse kill my child, I would have no problem killing him. JMO
Would you then take your child's and spouse's body and hide them?
 
  • #918
Would you then take your child's and spouse's body and hide them?
Then lie to the police and to the country, and only reveal the location of the bodies when LE has you dead to rights?
 
  • #919
I’m going to repost this as a friendly reminder to those who continue to talk about the VI.
Remember this the other night?
26 posts removed due to discussing another member. After review, timeouts will be forthcoming.”

Stop it! Or they will shut the board down. Admins review all this stuff. I received a private alert last time telling me a post of mine had been deleted, I might be put on a timeout, and I didn’t even write anything negative. The VI has been verified to have a longstanding relationship with C.W. and SW. He/She is very fond of C.W., and is having a hard time believing CW committed all 3 murders. I can relate to that, I thought Bill Clinton was innocent until Monica Lewinsky pulled that nasty blue dress out her closet. VI has some great background info to share with us about C.W. and SW. You don’t have to agree with his/her conclusions. Just take it in. He/She wasn’t there, He/She doesn’t know what happened any more than we do.
 
  • #920
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