Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #23

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  • #341
Thanks, MassGuy, for the "book" review. I figured the author had no more info than anyone else. Curious about the statement above. How many of these slaughterings do result in the person actually being "free" of what is bogging them down? How many eventually get caught? Probably more are caught, eventually, which makes me wonder why the process continues in some cases. Their brains must work in a seriously different way making them think they are above the law and suspicion.
Exactly. It almost never works out the way they envisioned. Family annnihilators are among the least researched, and thus understood, type of killers. I haven’t read the study yet, but I will, and I’ll post any relevant information.
 
  • #342
Yes, she did say that.

Shrug. I know my perspective on this one differs from many. I waffle back and forth. My gut says one thing but Idk. I would really like a doc dump. Especially since it's Friday! I always loved Friday doc dumps during the Casey Anthony case.
I hear you. I fear I will have forgotten all the details by the time the trial comes around. I’m also afraid that SW is going to cop a plea and never reveal what really happened.
 
  • #343
Perhaps. Yep it was me who made that statement in response to people asserting that of course Chris was actively involved in making baby number 3. Perhaps he wasn't involved in the traditional sense.

Perhaps he wanted out, she was resistant and got in-vitro without his knowledge or consent? I'm not saying that's likely or not but it's possible.

And ducking now for the inevitable tomatoes and "but crude oil!"
Hi Flourish,
It's not possible. It doesn't work that way. :)
Whooo, too much to explain here, but it's a long, expensive and tedious process.
Short version...
Starting with the "consultation" visit with the Dr., both need to be present for this because there are things to sign, lengthy stuff to go over, etc.
Getting your cycle figured out so your Dr. knows when you take the shots, etc. Then daily shots in the bummy, measuring eggs daily, more shots if needed, etc.
Then, if you get to the point of viable eggs, you get to go further in the whole process, very tedious and pricey.
Hope that helps :)
 
  • #344
I had not seen the entire CW court appearance until yesterday so I believed it was TRUE he showed NO emotion at all..That IS what I saw when he walked to & from the courtroom & in the few short clips of him sitting there during the hearing..That IS how it was reported on the news & in almost all posts I had read..But now I know that's not TRUE because when the judge began to read the charges (starting with the death of Shanann) he immediately began to breath heavy & took in a deep breath..When the first charge was read regarding tampering with a deceased body he squeezed his eyes closed & slightly shook his head..So, what to make of it? Is this CW realizing his horrific actions, maybe even regretting them, or can it just be an involuntary physical reaction that he wasn't even aware he was doing? Unfortunately, none of us know the answer.

Begins at 2:40

I also was puzzled when his head moved side to side as if he was saying 'no, not true' when the tampering with a body charges were read.

I would not be surprised if at later time, he will introduce another version of event.

Possibilities:
- He doesn't remember discarding the girls in oil at all.
- CW and SW drove out to the oil field together and Shanann dumped the girls in oil, and in a rage he strangled, killed, and buried her.
 
  • #345
I think so. SW did say they were trying to get pregnant before she made the pregnancy announcement.

Do you have a date or link for that one Layla cause I had the opposite.

I have
On her post of June 11 announcement, she is asked by a friend about her May 8 th post (where SW wonders what 3 kids would be like in her May 8 post .) Friend said wtte - so you were hinting you knew back on May 8th.
SW replied no , back on May 8 “ we hadn't even started trying”

@flourish that implies no birth control and faster than thought/surprise , unless anyone knows better ( ie a different link)
 
  • #346
Add in the thought of child support until each is 18 y/o. That may or may not have been discussed if CW/SW discussed a divorce, but I think he would have at least thought about it. For two children -- part of his future earnings. A divorce attorney would certainly put that on the table -- and it can affect visitation privileges.

it is just not that unusual for a male to dispose of his wife and children when he has lost his use for them.
As promised, I read “Two Face: The Man Underneath Christopher Watts” by Nick van der Leek. It’s free on Kindle Unlimited and $3.99 if you don’t have it.

Fortunately I didn’t have to pay for it, as I can think of better ways to spend $3.99 (like buying 4 packs of gum and chewing them all at once).

The book presents the timeline and evidence, as we know it. From there, the author speculates as to C.W.’s motive, how the crime occurred, and analyzes some of the major players.

He recounts a premeditated scenario, where C.W. is lying in wait for Shanann as she returns home that fateful night.

He speculates that the kids were killed first, because cadaver dogs were heard barking during CW’s interview with the media. The logic is that cadaver dogs bark when they get a hit, they would only get a hit if there was the scent of decomposition, so the kids must have been killed before Shanann arrived home.

As for motive, the author says that their entire life was a facade, both were living a lie (not happy), and financial problems were compounding their struggles.

Chris was overshadowed by Shanann and was losing his identity. The prospect of another child was too much to handle, and Chris felt that he was in too deep.

He speculates that Shanann and the kids returning to North Carolina, was a trial separation of sorts.

The decrease in Facebook videos leading up to the murders, is a sign of a marriage that is no longer a viable one.

*He makes an interesting point when he says that the kids may have been placed in different tanks, because the oil levels would have triggered a sensor if they deviated too much.

Some tid bits:

Author blasts Thrive for isolating Shanann from her real friends. People get sick of all the posts, and the only friends left were people within the “Thrive Cult.”

Her entire life was revolves around this MLM company, and her Facebook posts paint a picture that is in direct conflict with the truth. She is “faking it, until she makes it.”

He blasts fellow Thrivers for using her death to promote themselves, all of them changing their Facebook profile photos, to make themselves the center of attention.

*He cites a 2013 family annihilator study from the Harvard Journal of Criminal Justice. All were loving husbands and good fathers. The motives generally included family breakup, financial problems, and greed (killing his family would solve these problems).

The reason I don’t think this book is worthwhile, is because it does exactly what we do on here. We use the evidence and timeline to build a narrative in regards to what we think happened.

There’s just not a lot here, and his scenario of this being quite premeditated, is contingent on some barking dogs. It’s definitely plausible, but just too flimsy for me.

Read his blog, not his book, unless you have Kindle Unlimited.

thanks for this synopsis.
family annihilators are not loving fathers and husbands that lose it one day. they are master manipulators lacking empathy, pathologically self-serving, and most likely without capacity for emotion and connection (socio/psychopaths). they can play the game and mimic being human, but when the purpose for the wife and kids has worn out, bye bye to the wife and kids. It's very hard to understand or accept this reality, but it is very real, and quite common. power, control, entitlement, and grandiosity is an often fatal combo for those close to them.

more and more, the covered doll makes me think there was long-standing nefarious behavior by CW towards the kids. unless CW is the one who posed the doll as a warning.
 
  • #347
Exactly. It almost never works out the way they envisioned. Family annnihilators are among the least researched, and thus understood, type of killers. I haven’t read the study yet, but I will, and I’ll post any relevant information.

And I'm not sure that there are enough examples to really draw appropriate connections and put them into categories. They all have one thing in common---killing their families---but the rest may just be coincidence.
 
  • #348
I really can't understand the need to share so much on SM. Those who do it should at least fix their settings for family/close friends. I'm glad my children and close family aren't SM posters.
If on FB, we can try to toggle everything to as private as possible, but if even ONE of your friends does not toggle the "show friends" to the off position, anyone in the world who looks at that friend's page can see you are a friend of theirs, open to your FB page and see whatever you haven't thought to hide. I think the banner is always non-private, as well as all the posts on that banner photo. (pretty sure about that last sentence). Despite my griping, I use that platform because my family is flung throughout the world and I seldom see them.
 
  • #349
it could be the kids playing, but kids' play is not innocuous. Kids' play is their therapy, their way of communicating, and of working out problems. abused kids will also "play abuse" dolls, animals, etc. it is still play although a cry for help as well. kids generally would not play in this way without some prior exposure to such a posture. Usually kids put dolls under a blanket with the head exposed, tucked in for bed. covering the head is not normal play behavior and is due to previous exposure to such a position.

I disagree. I'm going to assume we both have excellent related credentials (I do), but I'm not going to argue, just disagree. Different opinions.

ETA: I don't disagree with all of that. Just, the last bit :) Kids' play is meaningful much of the time, for certain. I personally don't think there was anything nefarious in this particular incident (I for certain don't think CW did it), but that's just my own opinion based on experience and education and yours may vary, which is fine, of course)
 
  • #350
it is just not that unusual for a male to dispose of his wife and children when he has lost his use for them.


thanks for this synopsis.
family annihilators are not loving fathers and husbands that lose it one day. they are master manipulators lacking empathy, pathologically self-serving, and most likely without capacity for emotion and connection (socio/psychopaths). they can play the game and mimic being human, but when the purpose for the wife and kids has worn out, bye bye to the wife and kids. It's very hard to understand or accept this reality, but it is very real, and quite common. power, control, entitlement, and grandiosity is an often fatal combo for those close to them.

more and more, the covered doll makes me think there was long-standing nefarious behavior by CW towards the kids. unless CW is the one who posed the doll as a warning.
I tend to agree with you. I think that annihilators give the appearance of being “loving,” but in reality, there is something dark within them, something unseen.

I also agree that this didn’t come out of nowhere.
 
  • #351
I absolutely agree. He looks like he's completely in control of his emotions.

he's trying his hardest - it was a cover-up after all!
 
  • #352
And I'm not sure that there are enough examples to really draw appropriate connections and put them into categories. They all have one thing in common---killing their families---but the rest may just be coincidence.
It’s especially difficult because they usually off themselves, and you can’t talk to someone who is dead.

They do tend to share one thing, financial problems though. But there are so many motives, so many different psychological components, that they all vary greatly.

Lots of people have marriage problems and financial difficulty, and if that’s the link, we’d have an astronomical number of these events every year. So I agree with you, it’s tough to draw connections.
 
  • #353
Call me old fashioned but I don’t believe in displaying my whole day to day activities of my personal life including my marriage on Social media. I believe keeping some things private and should be kept in the household instead of in front of the world to make opinions.
I feel the same! Jumping off your post here to add the following which is JMO:

Some here have expressed it may have not been a good idea for SW's FB page be left as a memorial. I tend to agree. It just leaves too much to be debated about the victims. I would think there should have been a way for SW's family to save the pics & videos without leaving it open to the public. That being said, I'm sure SW's family were very proud of her accomplishments & dedication to Le-vel, not to mention their beautiful grandbabies. Maybe they felt she would have wanted it this way.
 
  • #354
So it's literally impossible for a wife to do this without her husband's knowledge? Do single or divorced women not ever get it done? If so, what legally must occur? Again, thinking of the Brooklyn 99 episode where Det. Boyle's ex holds his semen hostage. The timing of her announcement and the "should we?" kind of post makes me wonder.

I appreciate the response :)

ETA (sorry for all these "eta's" I should think more before hitting the reply button): a quick Google shows this isn't literally impossible, as it's happened...not often, and not always in the US, but it's happened.

I'm not saying that's what happened here, just wondered about it.


Hi Flourish,
It's not possible. It doesn't work that way. :)
Whooo, too much to explain here, but it's a long, expensive and tedious process.
Short version...
Starting with the "consultation" visit with the Dr., both need to be present for this because there are things to sign, lengthy stuff to go over, etc.
Getting your cycle figured out so your Dr. knows when you take the shots, etc. Then daily shots in the bummy, measuring eggs daily, more shots if needed, etc.
Then, if you get to the point of viable eggs, you get to go further in the whole process, very tedious and pricey.
Hope that helps :)
 
  • #355
If you look at other interviews, of parents s with missing children or spouses, the day after they go missing, the loved ones usually look disheveled, have puffy faces/red eyes from crying, lack of sleep...sometimes unshaven, often trembling or shaky when they speak. They usually beg others to search,and to try and help them find their loved ones.

CW looks like he is ready for a photo shoot. Nicely trimmed beard, hair combed, spiffy new fancy T-shirt, that his wife, who had just supposedly slaughtered his babies, had given him the week before. He was upbeat and smily for much of the casual interview. I didn't see any urgency or desperation in his words.

Yep -- he thought all his troubles were over, buried, drowned. A free man -- probably the best night's sleep he had had in months. Ahhhh.
 
  • #356
If on FB, we can try to toggle everything to as private as possible, but if even ONE of your friends does not toggle the "show friends" to the off position, anyone in the world who looks at that friend's page can see you are a friend of theirs, open to your FB page and see whatever you haven't thought to hide. I think the banner is always non-private, as well as all the posts on that banner photo. (pretty sure about that last sentence). Despite my griping, I use that platform because my family is flung throughout the world and I seldom see them.

Yikes! Not only that, but if you don't remove properties from the picture, the metadata can be accessed which contains a lot of personal information, including location. That's why I'm not a fan of people posting pictures of their children on SM. With email acct, Facetime and WhatsApp applications is easy to keep in contact with.
 
  • #357
Speaking of fake FB happy family photos and videos reminded me of Louise and David Turpin the monsters here in CA that tortured, starved, abused and imprisoned their 13 children. LT sisters didn’t even know that was happening. That’s why I take FB posts with a grain of salt you don’t know false from fact.
 
  • #358
There were TV cameras there.
I take your point. One camera plus one awful cameraman o_O hard to impress in an orange boilersuit though, dont ya think?
 
  • #359
Do you have a date or link for that one Layla cause I had the opposite.

I have
On her post of June 11 announcement, she is asked by a friend about her May 8 th post (where SW wonders what 3 kids would be like in her May 8 post .) Friend said wtte - so you were hinting you knew back on May 8th.
SW replied no , back on May 8 “ we hadn't even started trying”

@flourish that implies no birth control and faster than thought/surprise , unless anyone knows better ( ie a different link)
I don’t have time to look. Give me some time, it’s been awhile. Not sure what I read or heard, but I do know C.W. says in the video, “I guess when you want to, it happens.”
 
  • #360
Speaking of fake FB happy family photo ms and videos reminded me of Louise and David Turpin the monsters here in CA that tortured, starved abused and imprisoned their 13 children. LT sisters didn’t even know that was happening. That’s why I take FB posts with a grain of salt you don’t know truth from fact.
Especially if your Facebook account exists just to sell something. Every post had to paint a picture of happiness, as who wants to use a product that doesn’t give you a “perfect life?”
 
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