Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

[Jinkasaurus]

The issue isn't SW's comments toward CW... the issue is how CW felt about them, and how those feelings played into his actions.

Until we hear statements he made to others about how he felt, or read text messages or journal entries by CW, we aren't going to know.

 

[MassGuy]

The issue isn't SW's comments toward CW... the issue is how CW felt about them, and how those feelings played into his actions.

Until we hear statements he made to others about how he felt, or read text messages or journal entries by CW, we aren't going to know.

Thank you. That’s precisely how I feel.

 

[Starkville]

I understand good-natured bickering or teasing between spouses.​

But please show me where the comments went both ways between SW and CW. It was not equal by any means. He was always on the receiving end, always the butt of the jokes. Shanann never was.

 

[sun16]

Part of me wonders why he also didn’t kill the dog while he was at it.

 

[sun16]

I understand good-natured bickering or teasing between spouses.​

But please show me where the comments went both ways between SW and CW. It was not equal by any means. He was always on the receiving end, always the butt of the jokes. Shanann never was.

Can he not stand up / speak up for himself?

 

[kay74]

Does anyone know if Chris was fired from his job before Shanann got home that night? If that is the case and she walked in tired and he tells her this, she would have flipped out completely especially with another baby on the way.

 

[MassGuy]

I understand good-natured bickering or teasing between spouses.​

But please show me where the comments went both ways between SW and CW. It was not equal by any means. He was always on the receiving end, always the butt of the jokes. Shanann never was.

True. In those videos you are correct. But what went on behind closed doors? How did C.W. feel about the comments? What was Shanann’s intent?

These videos do not show the entire picture. They are snapshots of a moment in time. They themselves should not be viewed as any sort of proof of anything.

 

[MassGuy]

Does anyone know if Chris was fired from his job before Shanann got home that night? If that is the case and she walked in tired and he tells her this, she would have flipped out completely especially with another baby on the way.

He was fired after his arrest.

 

[MerryB]

I wonder if the case of Sally Challen might fall along those lines. Apparently her husband emotionally abused her by criticzing her weight, insisting she do all the housework, was horribly controlling, while he visited brothels and such. Sally Challen

What if it had been the man who was emotionally abused, demeaned, and controlled? What if it was the man who did the housework and childcare while she did what she wanted, when she wanted?
I’m not saying that’s the case here, but we don’t know that it’s not. We need to keep our minds open and consider all angles. IMO there’s a definite gender bias where we often assume it’s only the male that can abusive. Far less men report DV because of this. It’s embarrassing & many don’t believe it’s possible.

 

[MsBetsy]

To me, in the video where she is complaining about him and the phone which may be in the garage, she says something negatively about him being a genius.

That is uncalled for on a public,platform. I cannot understand how anyone accepts this as being OK.

Would people like that posted about them on a public forum?

I have several different versions on my FB of things people have posted. One is of a crumpled piece of paper and people are asked to straighten it out. It cannot. It shows the crumples that are there. The hurt from the words

It may be uncalled for, but I don't think it at all uncommon, or abnormal. My daughter calls me " genious" all the time, like when I'm searching for my sunglasses and they are on my head. Yes, she is being sarcastic but it always makes us laugh. It's part of normal human behavior. She told her science teacher the other day that I was"weird" because I collect all kinds of creepy insects and save them in old medicine bottles. In front of her entire class. I laughed when she told me about it. I think it depends on the dynamics of the relationship. If it's said in anger, with the intention of hurting someone, then yes, it's uncalled for. Do we have any evidence of anything like that? I haven't seen any. Jmo

 

[Shekkiec]

But was she tying to hurt him? Belittle him? Or was she just joking around? We can’t tell.

My girlfriend and I mock and tease each other all the time. A few of these videos are on social media. For us, none of this is mean spirited in any way. I guess if you were to see it, you’d feel the same way you do about the Watts videos. You’d be wrong though, which is why context is so important.

You “tease each other “. I have yet to see any reciprocation . It’s one of the things IMO you notice if you have been in an abusive relationship but others overlook .

 

[violet101]

Ok, found this... A video of just SW and CW, no kids, interacting normally, happy, discussing each of their weight loss on Thrive. Just don't want folks here to think I'm biased - am open to any and all scenarios. So yes, here is one of them, from 11 months ago, life looked GOOD then. He appeared on camera behind her, she didn't tell him to disappear, etc. Shanann Watts

Is there a way to go to this video? It always just takes me to her profile

 

[MerryB]

Correct, at this stage no evidence has been released that suggests SW killed the girls.

There’s no evidence that he did either, at least that we know of. There’s evidence he lied, and we know he disposed of the bodies at the oil field. Both of these things make him look guilty, for sure. But at this time, we don’t know of any evidence that he killed his daughters. Therefore, we still need to look at both possibilities.

 

[MassGuy]

You “tease each other “. I have yet to see any reciprocation . It’s one of the things IMO you notice if you have been in an abusive relationship but others overlook .

You have a unique lense with which you are viewing those videos, one that it is unfortunate you even have. You see what someone who has no experience with abuse, cannot see. There is no denying that.

My point is this: Just because there is no reciprocation on those videos, does not mean it didn’t happen. The videos aren’t a singular reality.

 

[pocketaccent]

It simply isn’t possible to determine from the videos, along with the anecdotal evidence from people who knew Shanann and C.W., if there was any abuse going on, verbal or otherwise.

Everyone has their own perspective, based (mostly) on their own personal experiences. This means that making a determination is for now, inherently subjective, and thus flawed.

Some people look at the videos and see abuse. Others see a normal picture.

We simply cannot know what was normal for them, and what their feelings were at the time, and in general. Was it mean spirited? Was it good natured ribbing? Was it real? Was it an act?

If we had actual documented evidence of prior abuse (prior to the murders), then these videos MAY provide context. Right now, we simply don’t have that.

I'm thinking CW and SW communicated a lot via text messages while they were apart (5 weeks). Those will show true pictures of their relationship without the Thrive sales pitch being involved, and hopefully reveal who initiated a separation talk, if there was one, or even a motive for what was to come.

 

[MassGuy]

I'm thinking CW and SW communicated a lot via text messages while they were apart (5 weeks). Those will show true pictures of their relationship without the Thrive sales pitch being involved, and hopefully reveal who initiated a separation talk, if there was one, or even a motive for what was to come.

Agreed. There is likely a trove of digital evidence that paints a more accurate picture.

 

[Asevario]

Re-posting one of my previous comments:

As an HR Manager who has written (many) policy manuals, I can address the termination aspect......

Most employers have a statement regarding "Employment at Will". The statement generally says something like:
"[Company] has the right to terminate any employee for any reason....."

Employers also have statements identifying conduct that may result in immediate termination. Such as: "In cases of serious misconduct, an employee is likely to be terminated immediately." The list may include several things (dishonesty, theft, harassment, aggressive behavior, etc.), but almost always includes "any action that violates federal, state or local law."

IMO, I believe disposing of human remains on company property (for which he has been charged with murdering- gosh I hate typing that ), would fall into this category.

In addition; if the company has a policy stating that dating/having intimate relationships with a co-worker is forbidden, termination could occur at time of discovery. I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and say if LE had asked for CW's company phone and e-mail records, his intimate relationship was known to the company. Especially if the co-worker had admitted to this relationship prior to his actual arrest.

Sorry if there was confusion, Maybe my post wasn’t well written. I wasn’t asking for clarification of what at will means, or what a company does. I’ve been an HR Manager for 20 ish years and have written policy myself, from scratch, on more than one occasion in an at will state, (thank god for SHRM) I was more discussing timeline in relation to the arrest and exact termination reason, as we have not really seen any of that info, as I’ve said in previous posts.

We’re definitely on the same page as far as your first two statements, but I haven’t really speculated (aloud) his reason for term. I have read that the employer was cooperating with the investigation, so I am led to assume they found things, though.

 

[Seattle1]

I think it's a generational "thing." Seems the millennials, which it just occurred to me today that they both are, are VERY different from others of us a bit older. They think nothing of taking selfies as the lion is about to bite their head off (often leading to their deaths), selfies of everything, everywhere, every situation, and videos of E-V-E-R-Y-thing. While the rest of us might think have some class, some reserve, EDIT, filter, the millennials are of a different mindset!

Hear, hear!
Also, I can think of one family "K," same generation, that are famous and very wealthy for exposing their own lives and relationships in this manner. I don't like it, but I understand why they do it.

 

[Shekkiec]

It may be uncalled for, but I don't think it at all uncommon, or abnormal. My daughter calls me " genious" all the time, like when I'm searching for my sunglasses and they are on my head. Yes, she is being sarcastic but it always makes us laugh. It's part of normal human behavior. She told her science teacher the other day that I was"weird" because I collect all kinds of creepy insects and save them in old medicine bottles. In front of her entire class. I laughed when she told me about it. I think it depends on the dynamics of the relationship. If it's said in anger, with the intention of hurting someone, then yes, it's uncalled for. Do we have any evidence of anything like that? I haven't seen any. Jmo

We had a VI state she knew them both and concluded the same. We know she was the alpha “fiery” one that made her a great salesperson . I just think if it was true for sure no one would believe him bc it appears that way and that would also make him lie initially to police he may have felt no one would believe him and everyone loved her. Strange fact you can be well loved and liked even respected by others but treat the person closest to you as the object of all your stress at home. Shanann was high strung it worked professionally but I don’t think a patch would cure that energy at home IMO

 

[Lady Justice21]

Can he not stand up / speak up for himself?

That depends. If the interactions were playful and good natured, he could have asked her to stop or let her know they weren't appreciated, and in my opinion only I imagine she would have. If they were part of a pattern of verbal abuse, "speaking up for himself" could have escalated the abuse. On a 3rd hand they could have bothered him and he by nature could have been non-confrontational, and they bothered him over time.

None of us except perhaps VIs, know what category they fall in to.