Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #24

[moonlessnight]

so exactly right. it is an affirmative defense, but the most horrendous. It shows his extreme egocentricity and lack of accountability: being seen as innocent is more important than honoring the victim and the truth. Accusing a mother of hurting her children is truly one of the worst, most damaging insults and is slander. Particularly when she is dead bc of the one claiming she hurt her children. I have a feeling I know who his defense atty is. A particularly slimy viper.

Actually killing her was not the ultimate abuse, the ultimate abuse is making sure she is dead dead dead and partially buried before saying that she is to blame for it all. THAT is the ultimate abuse.

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

Those interviews should be GOLD for the prosecution.

CW's porch performances should be added to Criminal Justice classes.

 

[MsBetsy]

Say that was the case. He may have felt he had good reason to hit her head with a blunt object first......

It could also mean he became enraged first. There is no reason to assume that he hit her with a blunt object first imo. He strangled her to death. That much we do know. We could spend hours speculating that he hit her over the head, drugged her first, tried to drown her in the bath tub, or any number of things. I don't think the word ultimately implies anything else but that he ended up strangling her. It could mean that he tried to intervene while she was in the act of killing one of the children but he doesn't even claim that was the case. Basically all we have to go on for now is that he strangled her. That's all we know. Jmo

 

[Amandaaa]

I agree, is there anything else in the affadavit we should consider/discuss/debate? Am I correct in thinking that this is only a summary used by LE to support the arrest of CW? Do you have any thoughts on the redaction(s)? Thanks!

Yes - just the bare facts to support their actions.

What to discuss about the affidavit? That’s an interesting question. I tend to choose my words carefully, so I will scrutinize every single word - but I know that sometimes, LE documents aren’t the most artfully drafted and can be subject to misinterpretation. So maybe “ultimately” doesn’t mean a thing - but it stood out to me - and nothing in the affidavit excludes the possibility of C.W. trying to help the girls. Clearly his confession had more detail than is written down in that one paragraph... so I would assume (regardless of whether it’s true or whether he was making it up) that he would at least *mention* trying to save them. I mean, he could say *anything* he wanted - there’s nobody around to dispute his version of events...

 

[DexterMorgan]

By Wed morning no doubt LE had approached Anadarko for Chris’s GPS records, and they were using an Anadarko drone to search sites. LE probably also asked for his email records. CO is an employment at will state and they could have fired CW just because if the fuss, but I think it’s highly likely they saw something in where he was with the truck (not where he said he was and/or was supposed to be) or something in his emails that violated company policy and provided grounds for termination. The grounds wouldn’t necessarily be even related to the case.

Agree. Its best they fired him before the arrest to help avoid certain litigation headaches.

 

[Colorado303]

@Colorado303 do you know who was the person responsible for household accounts and expenses ? Like making sure payments were sent in

I have an impression, but honestly couldn’t tell you why I have that impression so my opinion would just be speculation. Another VI is probably better equipped to answer than me.

 

[margarita25]

so exactly right. it is an affirmative defense, but the most horrendous. It shows his extreme egocentricity and lack of accountability: being seen as innocent is more important than honoring the victim and the truth. Accusing a mother of hurting her children is truly one of the worst, most damaging insults and is slander. Particularly when she is dead bc of the one claiming she hurt her children. I have a feeling I know who his defense atty is. A particularly slimy viper.

This guy is so terrible. On sooooooo many levels.

(Understatement I know. Jus sayin...)

 

[moonlessnight]

abuse on both sides is very uncommon. most often, the behavior of the victim, which can become less stable than that of the abuser as a result of the abuse, might be interpreted as abuse due to the PTSD/C-PTSD that occurs among DV victims, along with possible substance use/abuse. DV is comparable to being a prisoner of war. You cannot expect "normal" behavior by its victims. some may have stockholm syndrome. some may be highly reactive and irate - always on a hair trigger/fight/flight reaponse. some may be passive and terrified. some may stand up for themselves to the degree it appears as abuse, despite the fact their pleas fall on deaf/dead ears. many DV victims do not realize their partner is abusive. some just do not understand why their partner never listens, doesn't care, doesn't stop doing what the victim fears. they think their partner just doesn't understand, or is kind of emotionally immature, or is over-stressed, or overworked. they have no idea their partner does not care and enjoys tormenting them - enjoys their misery and feeds on it.

My MS in psych focused on psychopathy and PTSD and how they are opposites, but how the amygdala in the abuser and victim become mirrors of each other. this is why it can be hard to tell who the abuser is. the victim acts as a surrogate for the emotions that the abuser cannot acknowledge or manage. the abuser inflicts his emotions (shame, fear) onto the victim for her to live them out and manage them for him. the victim either takes on the unconscious trauma of the abuser and becomes traumatized and an abuse victim, or transmutes the trauma into healing (rarely unless she gets out and gets treatment). but the abuser feeds on the self doubt, fear, anger, depression, low self esteem of the victim - she makes him feel like he is a better, stronger person than she is. if she gets angry, he stays calm and baits her, feeling superior and calm when she is irate and he is chuckling on the inside. considering she usually was a very strong, talented, smart person to begin with, this makes his feel very powerful. he has the power to destroy her and dump his trauma onto her by re-enacting his own suppressed traumas on her and taking the superior role. he plays her like a marionette, and she thinks she is in an equal, human relationship. it is very confusing.

Honestly I don't see any other motive for continually trying to lay the groundwork that we have to be open to possible abuse on "both sides". How will that be proven that somehow her theoretical abuse of him made him do it? Proves she was evil enough to kill her children the same night, by the same method that he slaughtered her? Or is it just laying the groundwork for badmouthing her at the trial. And I already stated my opinion on that. We could be talking about their manners at the dinner table, who was more irresponsible with money, who had worse English grammar habits, and therefore was a bad example in educating their children (like, like, like), and lots of possible things for them to have argued about (WHO WAS CHEATING?). Sure am glad there was no such thing as livestreaming cherry picked videos during my 18 year marriage, for strangers to say...Hey, see that!! She abused him by asking him to stoke the fire! He said she leaves her sewing stuff all around the house!!

 

[Colorado303]

BUMP

Thread 23 #600

@Colorado 303

It’s been hard losing her and some of the post-crime character dissection afterward has almost been worse. i can honestly say in the time that I knew her I NEVER ONCE heard Shanann judge another person, speculate on anyone’s character or criticize others behind their back. She was all about encouraging people to be their best, and she was a positive energy in many lives including mine. It warmed my heart to see how genuinely happy she was when one of her friends accomplished something. Job success, weight loss, relationship victories, adult graduations, new babies — she rooted for it all and celebrated when it happened.

She would never have dreamt of questioning someone’s life, motivation and character the way hers is being picked apart by total strangers. And she’s not even here to defend herself. It’s the main reason I decided to go through the effort to be a VI. Everything she valued is being questioned and she deserves to have somebody try to keep baseless rumors at bat. It’s what she would have done in a heartbeat for a friend if she were here.

thank you for bumping this

 

[kirkassoc]

And, we learned yesterday from a VI that he actually had 2 opportunities for face to face discussions with his father, one when he picked the father up at the airport, then another one (after spending time with LE) when he wanted to see his father privately before he would tell the "truth".

I had never considered the time he spent alone with his father when transporting him from the airport. Can his father be made to tell what Chris told him during that ride? If his father is an honest man, he may be the one to nail him to the wall. MOO

 

[MyBelle]

He had admitted to killing his wife and disposing of the bodies. Until we get evidence as to what happened that night by autopsy I think it could be she reacted out of rage as well . The biggest insult you can do to an abusive person is leave them . Her actions may have been the catalyst for this tragedy .

Good point. None of this comes across as well-planned premeditated murder. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Maybe he saw her strangling one of his children.

Right, but why wouldn't he have said, "I saw her trying to kill one of the kids so I hit her in the head" instead of saying he strangled her to death? The former would have not sounded quite as fatal. Jmo

 

[MassGuy]

I had never considered the time he spent alone with his father when transporting him from the airport. Can his father be made to tell what Chris told him during that ride? If his father is an honest man, he may be the one to nail him to the wall. MOO

No one can force him to tell the truth, but the prosecution can, and likely will, call him as a witness. Hopefully he does the right thing.

 

[MsBetsy]

Good point. None of this comes across as well-planned premeditated murder. JMO

Except that he was apparently able to kill all three and get rid of the bodies in a short period of time.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Right, but why wouldn't he have said, "I saw her trying to kill one of the kids so I hit her in the head" instead of saying he strangled her to death? The former would have not sounded quite as fatal. Jmo

Because that was a summary by the LE not the full version of CW's statement so who knows what's missing.

 

[MJPeony]

I think it's a generational "thing." Seems the millennials, which it just occurred to me today that they both are, are VERY different from others of us a bit older. They think nothing of taking selfies as the lion is about to bite their head off (often leading to their deaths), selfies of everything, everywhere, every situation, and videos of E-V-E-R-Y-thing. While the rest of us might think have some class, some reserve, EDIT, filter, the millennials are of a different mindset!

Sorry all- I'm replying as I read and catch up. (I don't know how others do it, but I vacillate between trying to read everything and then reply and just replying as I read so I don't forget).

Anyway, I definitely agree there is a degree of generational gap regarding the open-book nature of people today on SM. However, and I say this in NO way to victim blame or imply she was a bad person, I think SW was very far on the spectrum of posting about herself. Yes, I realize she had a product to sell. But even so, the extent of selfies (even totally unrelated to Thrive) and discussing or announcing her accomplishments is not something I'm personally used to seeing. There is the typical "trying to show only the positives", and then there is how I've seen this. Her SM is so over-the-top, and constant, I've honestly been rather confused. And deeply saddened. B/c in hindsight it's obvious something was so very very wrong that she thought her world was that happy and yet she and her babies have been murdered.

All MOO of course.

 

[MassGuy]

Except that he was apparently able to kill all three and get rid of the bodies in a short period of time.

And let’s not forget that his opportunity to clean up, and cover his tracks, was thwarted by Shanann’s friend. This crime would not have appeared to be as sloppy, if he was able to complete the coverup.

 

[Nikynoo]

This guy is so terrible. On sooooooo many levels.

(Understatement I know. Jus sayin...)

i'm confused. CW has public defenders? Do you know them personally?

 

[NuttMegg]

I had never considered the time he spent alone with his father when transporting him from the airport. Can his father be made to tell what Chris told him during that ride? If his father is an honest man, he may be the one to nail him to the wall. MOO

Very early on I had mentioned that I heard he picked his Father up from the airport, before the police interrogation, and before saying that he would tell the truth if he could speak privately again with the Father. So I asked one of the VIs yesterday, and he/she confirmed it on the thread #23.

I wish we knew what was discussed in both of those face to faces he had with his father. Maybe the part in the police station was recorded if CW still didn't have a lawyer.

 

[Shekkiec]

@Colorado303 do you know why SW had her neck surgery?