Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #25

[MyBelle]

Yes, and it doesn't seem to be ending.

Rolling and scrolling is excellent therapy

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I think it was both a reminder and a bit of marketing. I think it was a reminder to lock the upper lock when they went to bed. My DD has a similar lock up high and has toddlers who get up in the night. Last thing she wants is them to find a way outside. I assume SW put the lock over after she arrived home. Other than that, nothing remarkable about it. imo

CW told the same story to LE. I have no reason to believe it is a lie.

It's your prerogative to believe him but repeating a lie isn't proof, imo. He's lied while in his marriage, he did a cover up and lied repeatedly.

CW needs to convince this conversation occurred for SW to kill her children because her coming home near 2am, tired and exhausted and 15 weeks pregnant, isn't going to convince anyone she immediately went to her children's bedrooms and killed them. The reason for the conversation is extremely important to CW's claim, there's justification in doubting it, JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

It's your prerogative to believe him but repeating a lie isn't proof, imo. He's lied while in his marriage, he did a cover up and lied repeatedly.

CW needs to convince this conversation occurred for SW to kill her children because her coming home near 2am, tired and exhausted and 15 weeks pregnant, isn't going to convince anyone she immediately went to her children's bedrooms and killed them. The reason for the conversation is extremely important to CW's claim, there's justification in doubting it, JMO.

Exactly. A person who has told this many lies, has thus, displayed a pattern of lying.

We have to ask ourselves:
Is he generally truthful?
Does he have reason to lie?
Does his story make sense?
What is more probable?

We are not jurors, so we don’t have to give him the benefit of the doubt. I sure as hell don’t.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Rolling and scrolling is excellent therapy

Yes - I need to start practicing that again. Thank you for the good reminder.

 

[MKZoo]

I find it unlikely that he would wake his sleeping, pregnant wife, after coming home late from a delayed flight, to inform her that he wanted a seperation, on the morning of her first ultrasound, and then twenty minutes later take off with her still lying in bed. Just his telling that story reveals that he doesn't even understand how cruel and insensitive that would be. Jmo

I agree. I have always found the logic of this part very strange. Why pick that particular time to begin a very serious discussion about ending their marriage? Like - hey, I realize you’re asleep and I’m leaving for work soon but let’s have a real quick chat about changing our lives forever.

 

[MassGuy]

I agree. I have always found the logic of this part very strange. Why pick that particular time to begin a very serious discussion about ending their marriage? Like - hey, I realize you’re asleep and I’m leaving for work soon but let’s have a real quick chat about changing our lives forever.

Agreed. This type of thing requires a discussion, one that takes time. This isn’t the type of thing you generally discuss during the circumstances they found themselves in. It definitely doesn’t pass the “smell test” for me.

 

[Best of What's Around]

I think it was both a reminder and a bit of marketing. I think it was a reminder to lock the upper lock when they went to bed. My DD has a similar lock up high and has toddlers who get up in the night. Last thing she wants is them to find a way outside. I assume SW put the lock over after she arrived home. Other than that, nothing remarkable about it. imo

CW told the same story to LE. I have no reason to believe it is a lie.

Respectfully, he lied to the police. He lied to the media. If the entire purpose of the media event is a lie (find the missing people), then everything he said should be suspect in light of that. There is also reason to lie - so people would think she left (if she's "safe" and "huddled up somewhere" as he said she might be). Or if when found, he could fall back on that made her kill the children. So there is motive to lie, and an immediate history of lying to both the media and police. If someone comes on my tv to tell me one big lie, aren't all the details supporting that lie suspect?

 

[Marli61]

Exactly. A person who has told this many lies, has thus, displayed a pattern of lying.

We have to ask ourselves:
Is he generally truthful?
Does he have reason to lie?
Does his story make sense?
What is more probable?

We are not jurors, so we don’t have to give him the benefit of the doubt. I sure as hell don’t.

Dear goodness... thank you!

 

[MassGuy]

Respectfully, he lied to the police. He lied to the media. If the entire purpose of the media event is a lie (find the missing people), then everything he said should be suspect in light of that. There is also reason to lie - so people would think she left (if she's "safe" and "huddled up somewhere" as he said she might be). Or if when found, he could fall back on that made her kill the children. So there is motive to lie, and an immediate history of lying to both the media and police. If someone comes on my tv to tell me one big lie, aren't all the details supporting that lie suspect?

Really well said. He doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt. He lost that the moment he opened his mouth and lied to the world.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Thats certainly a possibility. I’m still leaning towards this murder occurring during an argument. If that is the case, I wouldn’t expect him to use a garrote or ligature type instrument.

Now if this was a premeditated crime (absolutely possible), I think that something like a garrote or ligature, is more likely.

So for me, I view whatever his method was, as either possible evidence of premeditation, or a more spontaneous event.

I'm still leaning towards an argument, then snap. My opinion on this hasn't changed since the beginning except for maybe understanding reasons why he might snap.

I think if SW remained alive until closer to 4:am rather than closer to 2:am her babies were likely still alive because I think she would have checked in on them soon after arriving home. IMO and subject to change as more facts come to light.

 

[Tigerlily75]

None of it is evidence of murder, imo.

It is according to experts. A persons behavior after an event can indeed be considered evidence of guilt. Humans have patterns of behaviour and many clues can be gained from such patterns.

When interrogators interrogated Russell Smith in Canada, they firstly spent hours mapping out behaviour based on his personality type, with different directions they would take if he said this or that. It's on YouTube (the narrated version) and it's a work of art. They completely cornered him and he had nowhere to go. The entire thing was done based on human patterns of behaviour. We only have so many variables, they considered each variable, planned for it, and nailed him.

CW's behaviour after the event, including his lies, is a strong indication of guilt and will be considered evidence if this case goes to trial.

 

[Seattle1]

@Marli61 said: ↑
Did he mention separation in the interviews? I don't remember that.... maybe I'm wrong... yikes... I may need sleep...

Good point - he did not mention it in any of the media interviews. He did tell NA and the police we are told.

I believe the term CW used in the televised interviews was "emotional conversation." While many assumed this conversation was about an alleged separation (I did), we don't really know what CW meant by those words.

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

Yes.. the image wasn't the best.

What Ashleigh Banfield initially reported as being a note reading LOCK ME, was actually a motivational sticker, THRIVE VIP 200K (or something close). hope that helps

 

[MassGuy]

I'm still leaning towards an argument, then snap. My opinion on this hasn't changed since the beginning except for maybe understanding reasons why he might snap.

I think if SW remained alive until closer to 4:am rather than closer to 2:am her babies were likely still alive because I think she would have checked in on them soon after arriving home. IMO and subject to change as more facts come to light.

Truthfully, I could go either way here. Without any direct evidence of premeditation, I’m simply playing the odds in going with a more spontaneous event.

 

[Best of What's Around]

None of it is evidence of murder, imo.

I think you understandably want to see the physical evidence (beyond the bodies being where he said he hid them). I totally get that. We all look forward to more evidence. But I differ in your determination of what constitutes evidence in general. These lies do constitute circumstantial evidence that a jury can and will use to decide if someone committed murder. Circumstantial evidence can be very powerful, as it is so far in this case. I do not believe it is a rush to judgment to find it to be powerful. I also do not think any of us who think there is enough evidence already to convict would not revise our conclusions if and when new evidence comes to light. We have just merely been saying that given what we know so far, we think a jury could convict beyond a reasonable doubt. It does not mean we are close minded to new evidence. Hope this helps bridge the divide?

 

[MyBelle]

It's your prerogative to believe him but repeating a lie isn't proof, imo. He's lied while in his marriage, he did a cover up and lied repeatedly.

CW needs to convince this conversation occurred for SW to kill her children because her coming home near 2am, tired and exhausted and 15 weeks pregnant, isn't going to convince anyone she immediately went to her children's bedrooms and killed them. The reason for the conversation is extremely important to CW's claim, there's justification in doubting it, JMO.

The Defense doesn't have to prove anything but if there are text messages or evidence CW wanted a separation and SW knew it prior to the murder, it likely will be introduced, imo.

It is the prosecution's job to prove CW murdered his children. There will be jurors capable of forming conclusions based on forensic evidence and won't care that he lied because he was having an affair. Convicting a man simply because he had an affair while his wife was pregnant isn't going to happen in this case. I'm confident the judge will not allow it to turn into a circus. JMO

 

[Marli61]

@Marli61 said: ↑
Did he mention separation in the interviews? I don't remember that.... maybe I'm wrong... yikes... I may need sleep...

I believe the term CW used in the televised interviews was "emotional conversation." While many assumed this conversation was about a separation, we don't really know what CW meant by those words.

Right... but the poster I was quoting specifically said he mentioned separation in one of his interviews.
Edited for typo

 

[Deleted member 230544]

I was watching an older AB segment about this case and she discussed with experts that the ME could be holding off giving LE and Prosecutors the full reports of cause of death until all the reports are completed including toxicology and even the technical reports such as cell phone and computer etc. Is this the norm for cases in USA? Also, I find it encouraging based on the expert suggesting that even if data was removed from a cell phone that they would have great success retrieving the info from the network suppliers etc. Will the public be told the cause of death in the near future?

 

[MsBetsy]

I have no idea how severe or how active her lupus was at that moment, but autoimmunes cause fatigue, sometimes, SEVERE fatigue. I have fears that she was barely standing upright after the long weekend, all the traveling, being pregnant, and lupus fatigue. I've been there, my heart breaks when I think about it, standing there beyond exhaustion at 2 am wondering why the inside lock was latched, only lose her life.

Was the inside lock latched on the morning she came home? I did not know that. Why would he do that if he knew she was on her way home? Sounds suspicious to me. That makes me think he killed the girls before she came home if this is the case. Jmo

 

[Starkville]

I agree. I have always found the logic of this part very strange. Why pick that particular time to begin a very serious discussion about ending their marriage? Like - hey, I realize you’re asleep and I’m leaving for work soon but let’s have a real quick chat about changing our lives forever.

Just my opinion, but I don’t think it was the beginning of that discussion. I suspect it was an ongoing and contentious one. (I believe Trinket’s version that CW wanted to leave, and Shanann wanted to make it work for the childrens’ sake, JMO.)

Of course, if one of them did bring it up then, it was the worst time to, with both exhausted and emotional.