Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #25

[MyBelle]

That was obviously not the case with my SIL. And I don’t think we know at all what might pertain to SW.

Side note: I hope your daughter and grandchildren fared well through the pregnancy and delivery.

yes, it was a difficult pregnancy with complications midway detected at an appt and she was admitted immediately. Thanks for asking.

 

[Johnny1181]

Awwe thank you such a newbie I am but I have been following everything!!! All your posts!!! Pommy, you are the mommy no doubt!!!!!

I'm relatively new... Pommy to me seems to rock on point!

 

[katydid23]

When did he stop wearing it? @Colorado303 ? I thought he stopped wearing the wedding ring and bracelet and was there a necklace ? At the same time. I assumed it meant marital problems As in SW knew . bc she was alive at that point .
When did you first notice ?

Why would he continue to wear the purple 'Lupus Awareness' bracelet if he thought she was a hypochondriac?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Been away for a bit and wow have the tables turned ! SW has a mental illness because she used nebulisers on her children and used chiropractors ??? I don't use either but know many who do including my sister for her children who have various medical issues . I took my daughter to one when she was 6 and she had pneumonia. After the first few cracks I was nearly in tears . I couldn't bear him doing that to her . My point though is just because I'm not a fan of it personally, it doesn't mean I will label or judge someone who does. We could dig around for weeks looking at medical studies proving the benefits of these processes but it really gets you nowhere . IMO because there hasn't been any new evidence or information revealed , we are starting to dig around and create new theories etc. IMO I think this case will end up being unfortunately pretty simple. I think CW wanted out of the marriage and family life and killed SW in anger and felt he had to kill the little girls to make it look like they'd all left him. I can not understand , fathom or accept any of his reasoning but I don't think there was a lot of premeditation, just a lot of pent up emotion . No one deserved to die and no matter what people thought of SW she doesn't deserve to be treated this way . I'm sure the actual trial will be even more horrific.
I understand that all the sleuthers are just trying to make a little sense of this whole tragedy .

I agree, I think it's going to be pretty simple too. Imo, CW ambushed SW not long after she arrived home, CW's claim of an argument is used as a reason for SW going ballistic and murdering the children. We are all trying to make sense of these horrible tragedies.

I've linked to a thread below of a similar case that occurred only a few weeks after the Watts murders, the difference is Harvey kept the bodies in the home and returned to his normal work routine without anyone reporting his family missing, after a week, he drove a long distance to his father's home and confessed and handed himself over to the police.

Mother-of-three Mara Harvey was murdered only minutes after her late-night shift at a local Coles ended, police will allege.
Mrs Harvey, 41, was returning to her home in Perth's inner-city suburb of Inglewood from her shift stocking shelves at a local Coles at around 11pm on September 3.
Her husband, Anthony Harvey, 24, allegedly murdered her and their three daughters shortly after she arrived home.
Harvey killed his wife’s mother Beverley Quinn, 73, the next day when she turned up at the house.
JUST hours after allegedly murdering his mother-in-law, Anthony Harvey went off to work and mowed two people’s lawns and answered emails about quotes.

Australia - Five found dead in home. Bedford, Perth WA, Sept 2018

 

[Kensie]

Probably the lesser of two evils, wear the bracelet or upset the Mrs.

 

[Colorado303]

There have been several posts asking why I believe the girls were killed first. It has less to do w/knowing the parties than it does the facts of the case. With SW’s flight so delayed, if it was a pre-meditated plot to say she disappeared with the girls (and I think it was) , it would have made more sense to wait for another day when he would have more time to dispose of the bodies and stage the house accordingly. But if the girls were killed before SW got home, he had no choice but kill her that night and clean up the best he could.

I’ve said before I believe he thought he’d have plenty of time to stage the house when he got home. NA and LE prevented that though.

The reason I think it was premeditated is he initially tried to spin the story that they were seperating and SW just took off with the girls. (based on his phone conversation w/NUA, his conversations w/the friends he stayed with and his first tv interview among other things).

That story would explain why he wasn’t wearing the wedding band and wouldn’t expose lies he may have told the AP up to that point. IMO all of it was so he could move on with the AP.

MOO

 

[Noreen McGurl]

Why would he continue to wear the purple 'Lupus Awareness' bracelet if he thought she was a hypochondriac?

Yes...DEFINITELY I feel Welcome

 

[MsBetsy]

OK, I’m going to attempt to answer this question. But first I want to make clear:
a) I am still undecided about what happened that fateful night and
b) I am not speaking for anyone but myself, and I encourage others to share their thoughts & opinions on this as well.

“Why does this matter?” you ask. It may not. However, it may give us insight into a much bigger issue.

Let me preface this by saying I have degrees in psychology & child development but I am not a psychologist. I have postgraduate degrees in other related fields. I have spent years working with children & their families. However, I obviously have not formally assessed anyone we are discussing. These are just my observations.

Perhaps subjecting your children to unnecessary & numerous appointments, testing & treatment is a form of mistreatment. I know another poster brought up the possibility of MBP, but I’m not even going down that road. Just the daily appointments alone build a picture of compulsion. This may well show a need for attention, and putting that need above the childrens’ needs for consistent schooling, play, and autonomy.

I understand exactly what you are saying. I remember your posts when I first posted. I also have degrees in Psychology and Child development post grad, and graduate, as well as Special Education. That's how I remember your posts. I completely understand what you have observed, believe me. I have seen much too, stories you just can't make up, as I'm sure you are well aware. But I just don't see any firm evidence of attention seeking in this case, at least not at the clinical level. I am not a Psychologist either. I'm not a professional. But as I said the other day, this has no resemblance of Munchausen by Proxy. I have already given an example of a mental health patient with this disorder, who used her own menstrual blood, and smeared it inside the nose and into the mouth of her 13 month old son and took him to the ER and claimed she found him like that in his crib. And that was only on one visit to the hospital. That is abuse. Also read Gitana1 's description of constant seeking of attention. People like this are way to obvious and persistent for it to go unnoticed. In my opinion, several dr' s would have noticed this much earlier. Her friends would notice because she'd likely drive them crazy. There is a world of difference between normal attention seeking behavior and clinical behavior. This is just my opinion. This is why I just don't see the "logic" connecting any of what we know and have observed to the capacity to murder ones own children. Jmo

 

[Noreen McGurl]

Definitly I meant

 

[MyBelle]

Perhaps.

Or medical records might just show it was all made up. JMO

 

[MerryB]

I understand exactly what you are saying. I remember your posts when I first posted. I also have degrees in Psychology and Child development post grad, and graduate, as well as Special Education. That's how I remember your posts. I completely understand what you have observed, believe me. I have seen much too, stories you just can't make up, as I'm sure you are well aware. But I just don't see any firm evidence of attention seeking in this case, at least not at the clinical level. I am not a Psychologist either. I'm not a professional. But as I said the other day, this has no resemblance of Munchausen by Proxy. I have already given an example of a mental health patient with this disorder, who used her own menstrual blood, and smeared it inside the nose and into the mouth of her 13 month old son and took him to the ER and claimed she found him like that in his crib. And that was only on one visit to the hospital. That is abuse. Also read Gitana1 's description of constant seeking of attention. People like this are way to obvious and persistent for it to go unnoticed. In my opinion, several dr' s would have noticed this much earlier. Her friends would notice because she'd likely drive them crazy. There is a world of difference between normal attention seeking behavior and clinical behavior. This is just my opinion. This is why I just don't see the "logic" connecting any of what we know and have observed to the capacity to murder ones own children. Jmo

To reiterate, I’m not suggesting MBP.

 

[Noreen McGurl]

I saw Invest8gation ID and still dont understand (never will) but was similar story but reversed!!!

 

[Layla123]

OK, I’m going to attempt to answer this question. But first I want to make clear:
a) I am still undecided about what happened that fateful night and
b) I am not speaking for anyone but myself, and I encourage others to share their thoughts & opinions on this as well.

“Why does this matter?” you ask. It may not. However, it may give us insight into a much bigger issue.

Let me preface this by saying I have degrees in psychology & child development but I am not a psychologist. I have postgraduate degrees in other related fields. I have spent years working with children & their families. However, I obviously have not formally assessed anyone we are discussing. These are just my observations.

Perhaps subjecting your children to unnecessary & numerous appointments, testing & treatment is a form of mistreatment. I know another poster brought up the possibility of MBP, but I’m not even going down that road. Just the daily appointments alone build a picture of compulsion. This may well show a need for attention, and putting that need above the childrens’ needs for consistent schooling, play, and autonomy.

I haven’t seen all of SWs posts and videos, but from what I saw, I only remember 1 talking about the girls going to the doctor. They were both going in for surgery, but she didn’t say what for. How many times does she actually mention taking the kids to the doctor?

 

[katydid23]

Technically, yes.

Does a Tree Nut Allergy Apply to Coconut?
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration classifies coconuts as tree nuts. Foods containing coconut are required to be labeled with "contains tree nuts" under the Food Allergy Labeling and Consumer Protection Act (FALCPA).

However:

Tree Nut Allergy - Kids With Food Allergies
www.kidswithfoodallergies.org/page/tree-nut-allergy.aspx
The FDA lists coconut as a tree nut. In fact, coconut is a seed of a drupaceous fruit. Most people allergic to tree nuts can safely eat coconut. Coconut allergy is reasonably rare.

 

[Lady Justice21]

My daughter delivered in a surgical operating room in case a c-section was needed. A neonatologist was also present along with two resident doctors. The OB dept does have a nurse-midwife program but it wasn't an option for high-risk patients because it is also high risk for the baby.

That's why my obgyn had to be present during my labor and delivery (in hospital) not room. In addition to other stuff I was a VBAC and they needed to be ready in case I needed a c-section. Not all obgyns would have allowed my scenario. I was certainly thankful mine did.

 

[MerryB]

I haven’t seen all of SWs posts and videos, but from what I saw, I only remember 1 talking about the girls going to the doctor. They were both going in for surgery, but she didn’t say what for. How many times does she actually mention taking the kids to the doctor?

There are many, many posts. I would have to go through and count.

 

[cailleach]

Exactly.

And: there was only coconut in those bars, which many people who have tree nut allergies are NOT allergic to

And: SW referenced a doctor more than once regarding her pregnancy

But don’t let facts get in the way of a good story.

My daughter went through the full gamut of allergy screening where they prick/scratch the skin and you go back regularly for the response to be monitored. It was a long, painful, process. I used to nearly cry for her because it seemed almost barbaric in the world of modern medicine. I was reassured that the data gained was worth her discomfort. They test an unbelievable array of things and SW may have known she was not allergic to coconut specifically. I've little doubt that her hyper-housecleaning was related to keeping the allergans down for the girls. I did the same thing when my daughter was young. You do everything possible to keep them from getting ill.

 

[Johnny1181]

I was taught that no matter what the situation is, to never let your emotions overpower your intelligence. Some need to take this advice. It’s not as clear cut as most crimes are. I think that’s why it’s so largely publicized, because it “seemed” like they had the fairytale life. Which we’re taught from childhood that to believe in the fairytale, it exists. Everyone wants that. And when it so tragically came crashing down, it terrifies everyone because they want/need to know why.

I question some of the things out there on SM, because I want to know the bigger full picture. Being a photographer, I’m a storyteller, you pay attention to the details. You tend to notice things most don’t. I’ve had a lot of trauma & loss in my life to last a lifetime, that I value life to it’s full extent. And I think no matter how hard life is, it’s worth fighting for. Which means, if I were on the jury, I’d want to make sure I had zero doubts before I possibly condemned a man to death. It’s a long shot that he could be telling the truth, because his actions & lies state otherwise. But in our country, in a court of law he is innocent until proven guilty. That means something to me. I’m thankful we have that right. And yes, I realize SW, BW, CCW, NW all had the right to live & it got taken away from them. It’s unspeakable. I’m not doubting SW loved her kids. I’m not calling her a liar, I have MS, so I know what having an autoimmune disease is like all too well.

But there’s quite a few on here that I would NOT want on my jury, because they’re not open to hearing any other scenario than one that fits anything other than what their opinion is. I thought WS was somewhere that all angles could be discussed without ridicule of opinions. It’s a sleuthing board for heck’s sake, don’t be upset when something is pointed out that doesn’t fit your narrative. In a LE environment, they all pool opinions, lay it all out, along with evidence. It happens in the medical field too. Justice is what we should be looking for, not fighting over whose opinions are right/wrong.

ETA - MOO & sorry it’s so long.

It is slei

Excuse me, but regardless how tired a person is. if someone is actively strangling you, your reaction is to strike back, the adrenaline rush will offset the tiredness. Unless he strangled her while she was asleep, which I don't think is the scenario. JMO

We don't have the ME results yet. Or the DNA from under her nails. Time will

yes, it was a difficult pregnancy with complications midway detected at an appt and she was admitted immediately. Thanks for asking.

I'm sorry your family went through that.

 

[Allabouttrial]

There have been several posts asking why I believe the girls were killed first. It has less to do w/knowing the parties than it does the facts of the case. With SW’s flight so delayed, if it was a pre-meditated plot to say she disappeared with the girls (and I think it was) , it would have made more sense to wait for another day when he would have more time to dispose of the bodies and stage the house accordingly. But if the girls were killed before SW got home, he had no choice but kill her that night and clean up the best he could.

I’ve said before I believe he thought he’d have plenty of time to stage the house when he got home. NA and LE prevented that though.

The reason I think it was premeditated is he initially tried to spin the story that they were seperating and SW just took off with the girls. (based on his phone conversation w/NUA, his conversations w/the friends he stayed with and his first tv interview among other things).

That story would explain why he wasn’t wearing the wedding band and wouldn’t expose lies he may have told the AP up to that point. IMO all of it was so he could move on with the AP.

MOO

My belief is that maybe the AP was the catalyst rather than the reason he wanted to separate.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Duplicate

 

[maeleemae]

Excellent post maeleemae.

(And I'm sorry you had to deal with such a bad previous experience.)

Thank you on both counts. The next husband was an absolute gem. Treated me and my girls with so much love and consideration until the day I discovered he had drilled a hole in my girl’s bathroom door peeking at them. I set up a surveillance camera to catch him because nobody would have believed it otherwise (he is a surgeon). One emergency restraining order later and he was removed from our home by three sheriff deputies. I would have never in a million years thought he would do such a despicable thing. It proved to me you never really know what evil lurks in a person. I can’t win for losing. Lol!