Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #25

[Seattle1]

@MyBelle said: ↑
If CW's defense goes with the strategy that SW killed the children, those medical records and histories will become evidence. JMO
@Seattle1 said: ↑
And why do you think the children's medical records and presumably health histories will become evidence? The children didn't kill anybody.

Because one of their parents killed them and the one taking them to multiple doctors and flying off the handle because MIL gave a child an ice cream treat is the one CW has accused of killing them. Pretty simple logic, really. JMO

The horrific loss of 3 lives is not a fantasy, and requires not your "simple logic" but the application of means, motive, and opportunity. There's nothing simple
about it whatsoever.

I'm not sure I see the logic, either. I read it three times and still can't figure out what it could mean.
Why is it? It's your own post, and statement of "simple logic."

 

[Johnny1181]

.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Yep. I asked her and she said she didn't mind because she thinks coconut is gross anyway. lol

I don’t like the taste either. For me the hardest part is staying away from lotions and hair products - so many have coconut in them.

 

[cailleach]

Motion denied: Frederick killings: Christopher Watts' defense denied investigation request

 

[katydid23]

As we are not allowed to link ingredients due to TOS if you google the ingredients for Lemon Meringue "T" bars it clearly states Allergens: Contains Milk, Soy, Tree Nuts (Coconut).
Shanann Watts

Coconut is NOT really a tree nut. And coconut is rarely an allergic to children.


Tree Nut Allergy - Kids With Food Allergies
www.kidswithfoodallergies.org/page/tree-nut-allergy.aspx

The FDA lists coconut as a tree nut. In fact, coconut is a seed of a drupaceous fruit.

Most people allergic to tree nuts can safely eat coconut.

Coconut allergy is reasonably rare.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Yes, from what I understand, the thrashing and struggling is almost an automatic response in the desperate attempt to breathe. The severe pain would also cause one to resist violently. Some victims injure their necks in an effort to resist. Jmo

They can also inflict scratches on themselves in an attempt to ward off the attack.

Knight's Forensic pathology:

The expected pattern may be fragmentary, however, as is often seen on the neck when a victim of either manual or ligature strangulation attempts to tear away the attacking fingers or cord. These marks are usually vertical, as opposed to the more random marks that may be inflicted by the nails of the assailant in manual strangulation.

 

[Johnny1181]

Girl you know it's true! Hell throw in that milli vanilli song right there! Sorry.... lol... this is a draining thread that sucked me in. Gotta laugh now and again

Wait quoted wrong response lol!

 

[Amonet]

Because one of their parents killed them and the one taking them to multiple doctors and flying off the handle because MIL gave a child an ice cream treat is the one CW has accused of killing them. Pretty simple logic, really. JMO

To be honest, even if CW had called 911 instead of killing Shanann, and there was clear evidence that the girls died at her hands, I'm not sure that the ice cream incident would really provide any insight.

They both look like they were good parents from the videos that were posted, neither show signs (to me) of being bad or abusive parents.

I think right now the key point in your post is that CW accuses Shanann of killing the girls. What we don't have is access to any evidence that says she did. On the other hand, his actions and his interviews with media supply evidence that he killed them all (I know not everyone sees that as strong enough evidence and they want more).

But we also have evidence from other familicide cases where the male perp who doesn't immediately suicide seems to have a strong tendency to not confess to all the murders. How many of them could have said "oh she killed the kids, I only killed her?" CW is making them all look stupid, they never thought of that. But I don't buy it in their cases and I don't buy it in his.

But, to be fair, we look at examples of female perps who killed their children. And Shanann doesn't seem to match with them. On top of that I don't recall any of their husbands walking upstairs to find the immediate aftermath and then killing the female perp and dumping all the bodies and saying "she left me because I told her I was going to leave her".

I'm just saying that I don't think the parenting from either of them is a part of what happened that night.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

She didn't give her child a thrive bar with nuts. It had coconut in it, which the child is not allergic to.

The thrive bar has tree nuts (coconut). Maybe she's not allergic to all tree nuts.

Fwiw the MIL did not give the child with the nut allergy any ice cream with nuts.

 

[Kensie]

Deleted post. I sounded too harsh.

 

[Amonet]

Because one of their parents killed them and the one taking them to multiple doctors and flying off the handle because MIL gave a child an ice cream treat is the one CW has accused of killing them. Pretty simple logic, really. JMO

To be honest, even if CW had called 911 instead of killing Shanann, and there was clear evidence that the girls died at her hands, I'm not sure that the ice cream incident would really provide any insight.

They both look like they were good parents from the videos that were posted, neither show signs (to me) of being bad or abusive parents.

I think right now the key point in your post is that CW accuses Shanann of killing the girls. What we don't have is access to any evidence that says she did. On the other hand, his actions and his interviews with media supply evidence that he killed them all (I know not everyone sees that as strong enough evidence and they want more).

But we also have evidence from other familicide cases where the male perp who doesn't immediately suicide seems to have a strong tendency to not confess to all the murders. How many of them could have said "oh she killed the kids, I only killed her?" CW is making them all look stupid, they never thought of that. But I don't buy it in their cases and I don't buy it in his.

But, to be fair, we look at examples of female perps who killed their children. And Shanann doesn't seem to match with them. On top of that I don't recall any of their husbands walking upstairs to find the immediate aftermath and then killing the female perp and dumping all the bodies and saying "she left me because I told her I was going to leave her".

I'm just saying that I don't think the parenting from either of them is a part of what happened that night.

 

[Kensie]

Deleted, my computer has a mind of its own.

 

[maeleemae]

I'm sorry you went through that awful experience. I had a coworker--an excellent corporate attorney and friendly guy--who got caught doing the same thing you experienced. His wife didn't have to get a restraining order because he left the house, drove to a park and killed himself. The community was shocked. Evil does lurk and sometimes it takes a while to open our eyes. Glad your family is safe.

What’s interesting to me and it applies to this case, he was absolutely wonderful to us, yet he did this horrific thing that nobody, not even those of us closest to him, would have imagined he could do. It doesn’t take away from the good that was in him. He was a good person, just a sick man who I couldn’t trust anymore. He had to go. My point is, CW seems like a great guy. SW seemed like a nice woman (I wouldn’t have been friends with her but that’s neither here nor there). They probably both were in many ways. But somebody killed those babies. It blows my mind.

 

[MsBetsy]

To reiterate, I’m not suggesting MBP.

Yes, I know, just wanted to address it along with my thoughts on attention seeking behavior. A few have mentioned MBP, and have hinted at it, so I wanted to make the contrast. I know you don't suspect it, yourself. Imo

 

[Johnny1181]

.

 

[maeleemae]

Deleted...sorry. Double posted by mistake.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Coconut is NOT really a tree nut. And coconut is rarely an allergic to children.


Tree Nut Allergy - Kids With Food Allergies
www.kidswithfoodallergies.org/page/tree-nut-allergy.aspx

The FDA lists coconut as a tree nut. In fact, coconut is a seed of a drupaceous fruit.

Most people allergic to tree nuts can safely eat coconut.

Coconut allergy is reasonably rare.

I’m allergic to coconut. I’ve never met anyone else who is. However, most people who know me don’t know I’m allergic to it either.

 

[Layla123]

Hello, I’m a little confused on the question so I’ll
Do my best. My opinion was he deleted it because of the lovey posts even when she knew there were
Problems.

But SW was in NC when he deleted his fb account, right? I think he may have been in NC, too, at the time. She hadn’t posted what a great guy C.W. was videos in the five weeks she was gone, right? Do you think he deleted his fb page in anticipation of SW coming home and the onslaught of I love CW videos starting up again? Maybe the AP might see?

 

[PommyMommy]

IMO, here are some reasons why I believe the FB page was deleted:

• The affair was likely something that was turning into something serious. CW would have wanted someone lined up, IMO, so that he wasn’t alone. Just like how he didn’t want to be alone in the house that night, he strikes me as someone who wouldn’t want to be alone in general in the wake of a separation. I can’t imagine the AP even knew what she was in for. If CW was anything like the FB videos, or even porch interviews for that matter, he seemed like a regular, cool, calm, collected kind of guy. Imagine how this could come off to the AP as well.
• According to NUA during her MSM interview, SW told told her that CW was not “acting himself” during the trip to NC.

More from the article:

“She texted me and said she was going to need a friend now more than ever when she got back,” Atkinson said. “He wasn’t being the loving Chris that he normally was. He wasn’t touching or hugging or doing stuff like that. And he wasn’t being as attentive to the girls as he normally is.”

Atkinson said that Shanann felt “something had changed.” But it wasn’t clear what it was.

Shanann's friend said she knew Chris Watts 'had something to do' with family's murders​

• From the above, I speculate that CW was checked out. Mentally and emotionally. This was picked up on by SW in NC. She knew something was up. And I doubt he made any attempt to hide it. He didn’t need to dupe her; that wasn’t his concern. He had committed to whatever it was he needed to do to ensure that he’d be out of the relationship. There wasn’t any turning back at that point.
• Deleting the FB page was instant gratification in his mind, and a symbolic first step in stepping away, and becoming free from his family.
• VI confirmed CW deleted his FB after telling SW (before her trip) that he wanted a separation. This would make sense, especially if CW was ready to move on to be with AP.
• I don't believe that CW deleted FB to hide it from the AP. SW's FB had numerous public posts, and CW not having a FB doesn't mean SW couldn't post a photo of him. It just means that she probably couldn't "Tag" him in the photo. AP could easily have seen those photos if they were public, however, just as we can still CW in SW's FB photos today.
• CW may have been along for the ride with promoting the business, but how passionate was he really? Something tells me he was only doing it for SW. It'd look good for her, especially if he counted as a recruit, so why not? If he was on his own, I think it'd be unlikely that he'd continue promoting it. He had other priorities anyway, and I imagine it had nothing to do with the business. It was all about moving forward with the next steps in his plan, to be free from his family, and to potentially be with the AP.

JMO.

Edited to fix link.

Nailed it. Excellent post!

 

[Sleuthine]

SW had a midwife? In a high-risk pregnancy? Wow! A midwife isn't qualified to determine what is safe or not safe. Anyone who has ever been in a high-risk pregnancy knows that! They also want to deliver with a NICU nearby. JMO

In that FB link it says OB and midwife. Despite that, midviwes actually know a lot and would refer to an OB if something is outside of their area. In my last pregnancy I never saw an OB.

 

[Charlot123]

I agree, I think it's going to be pretty simple too. Imo, CW ambushed SW not long after she arrived home, CW's claim of an argument is used as a reason for SW going ballistic and murdering the children. We are all trying to make sense of these horrible tragedies.

I've linked to a thread below of a similar case that occurred only a few weeks after the Watts murders, the difference is Harvey kept the bodies in the home and returned to his normal work routine without anyone reporting his family missing, after a week, he drove a long distance to his father's home and confessed and handed himself over to the police.

Mother-of-three Mara Harvey was murdered only minutes after her late-night shift at a local Coles ended, police will allege.
Mrs Harvey, 41, was returning to her home in Perth's inner-city suburb of Inglewood from her shift stocking shelves at a local Coles at around 11pm on September 3.
Her husband, Anthony Harvey, 24, allegedly murdered her and their three daughters shortly after she arrived home.
Harvey killed his wife’s mother Beverley Quinn, 73, the next day when she turned up at the house.
JUST hours after allegedly murdering his mother-in-law, Anthony Harvey went off to work and mowed two people’s lawns and answered emails about quotes.

Australia - Five found dead in home. Bedford, Perth WA, Sept 2018

Well, here, at least, he did confess. It seems that the financial stressors might have been the burden in someone who was already emotionally vulnerable. Probably depressed, losing his business, thinking of kids ending up on the street. I don't want to exculpate him in any way, but it seems, there is less premeditation and more mental issues. CW has pushed the blame on his wife, it is a somewhat different situation.

However - here is the similarity, and you may disagree with me. In both cases, an insecure man marries for the fear of loneliness, and the woman marries with the big family in view. Soon, the financial issues start, and the man might start blaming the big family.

How important, do you think, it is for the couple planning to get married, to discuss, realistically, the size of the family, is it going to be a one-income, or a two-income one, before they get married?

I think, very.

 

[JudgeJudi]

@MyBelle

“One reason I think it's possible CW's story is true is because he used the words "surreal" and "nightmare" in his interview".

Most people can wake up after having a nightmare, but SW’s family find themselves in living nightmare, one in which SW and her babies will never wake up.

 

[Amonet]

It's in one of the early threads. SW complained about her MIL on a message board yet she was doing the same thing. That's when I started wondering if the kids really did have allergies or did she make it up to get sympathy and call attention to herself. JMO

I would think that a parent of a child with allergies would naturally be a bit more concerned about food that was given by someone other than themselves, whether that's at a relatives, friends, or even at school. I don't think it necessarily means the parent it making it up.

 

[JudgeJudi]

@Jennifer17

“Here is the bench that I am sitting on.

Many years ago, I discovered my child dead in her cot. There probably were many things that I could have been fearful that I had done which led to her death, but I did not think of any of those things.

I started CPR and then knew that I had to get outside help, so I ran into the neighbours house with her while I continued CPR and she rang the emergency number.

It never occurred to me to cover up her death because I might be blamed”.


Jennifer, I’m so sorry for your loss.

The same thing happened with my sister. She had an early morning appointment and went into the baby’s room to see if he was still asleep before she had her shower. She found him dead in his cot. She picked him up and, still in flimsy night attire, raced out into the street, screaming for help. Several neighbours ran out to see what the commotion was about. One, a nurse, took charge of the situation while another rang the emergency number. He was her only child.

Isn’t this something any normal parent would do? I just asked my husband, “If you saw one of our children dead in a baby monitor and saw me strangling the other child, what would you do?” He replied, “I’d run into the room, knock you off your feet and try and help the baby”.

I rest my case.

 

[Johnny1181]

Wait quoted wrong response lol!

My whole system crashed on my end! So embarrassing! Totally did not do what I wanted it to do and inserted the wrong post

Had to totally reboot. I was hitting every button like NO NO NO! Lol!

I don't know what happened. Probably an iPhone thing.
Please help me restore my dignity lol

 

[PommyMommy]

IMO, here are some reasons why I believe the FB page was deleted:

• The affair was likely something that was turning into something serious. CW would have wanted someone lined up, IMO, so that he wasn’t alone. Just like how he didn’t want to be alone in the house that night, he strikes me as someone who wouldn’t want to be alone in general in the wake of a separation. I can’t imagine the AP even knew what she was in for. If CW was anything like the FB videos, or even porch interviews for that matter, he seemed like a regular, cool, calm, collected kind of guy. Imagine how this could come off to the AP as well.
• According to NUA during her MSM interview, SW told told her that CW was not “acting himself” during the trip to NC.

More from the article:

“She texted me and said she was going to need a friend now more than ever when she got back,” Atkinson said. “He wasn’t being the loving Chris that he normally was. He wasn’t touching or hugging or doing stuff like that. And he wasn’t being as attentive to the girls as he normally is.”

Atkinson said that Shanann felt “something had changed.” But it wasn’t clear what it was.

Shanann's friend said she knew Chris Watts 'had something to do' with family's murders​

• From the above, I speculate that CW was checked out. Mentally and emotionally. This was picked up on by SW in NC. She knew something was up. And I doubt he made any attempt to hide it. He didn’t need to dupe her; that wasn’t his concern. He had committed to whatever it was he needed to do to ensure that he’d be out of the relationship. There wasn’t any turning back at that point.
• Deleting the FB page was instant gratification in his mind, and a symbolic first step in stepping away, and becoming free from his family.
• VI confirmed CW deleted his FB after telling SW (before her trip) that he wanted a separation. This would make sense, especially if CW was ready to move on to be with AP.
• I don't believe that CW deleted FB to hide it from the AP. SW's FB had numerous public posts, and CW not having a FB doesn't mean SW couldn't post a photo of him. It just means that she probably couldn't "Tag" him in the photo. AP could easily have seen those photos if they were public, however, just as we can still CW in SW's FB photos today.
• CW may have been along for the ride with promoting the business, but how passionate was he really? Something tells me he was only doing it for SW. It'd look good for her, especially if he counted as a recruit, so why not? If he was on his own, I think it'd be unlikely that he'd continue promoting it. He had other priorities anyway, and I imagine it had nothing to do with the business. It was all about moving forward with the next steps in his plan, to be free from his family, and to potentially be with the AP.

JMO.

Edited to fix link.

Nailed it!

 

[JudgeJudi]

CW worked as an operator for Anadarko Petroleum. The operator position generally charges employees with routine visits to oil fields, checking on the status of wells, maintaining the equipment and fixing any issues.

More detail in Colorado family killings expected next week

 

[Tigerlily75]

What’s interesting to me and it applies to this case, he was absolutely wonderful to us, yet he did this horrific thing that nobody, not even those of us closest to him, would have imagined he could do. It doesn’t take away from the good that was in him. He was a good person, just a sick man who I couldn’t trust anymore. He had to go. My point is, CW seems like a great guy. SW seemed like a nice woman (I wouldn’t have been friends with her but that’s neither here nor there). They probably both were in many ways. But somebody killed those babies. It blows my mind.

Ditto, it blows my mind too.

Is it possible, that they were indeed good people, both of them, until one day, one of them wasn’t. It’s hard to wrap your head around.

Does it then mean, that given the right storm of events, anyone could be capable of murder? That’s a really scary thought.

I’m really sorry for what you went through.

 

[Johnny1181]

Wait quoted wrong response lol!

I don't know how to delete now that I'm back on... but you know what?

I'm ok going ahead and leave myself out there looking like a dumba**
It happens
Ps.... feel feee to delete if you know how lol

 

[MKZoo]

My whole system crashed on my end! So embarrassing! Totally did not do what I wanted it to do and inserted the wrong post

Had to totally reboot. I was hitting every button like NO NO NO! Lol!

I don't know what happened. Probably an iPhone thing.
Please help me restore my dignity lol

Yesterday WS noped out on a few of us and we double and triple posted. We meant those posts a whole lot apparently. Lol.

If you can still edit just go in and erase the content and type deleted.

 

[MassGuy]

@Jennifer17

“Here is the bench that I am sitting on.

Many years ago, I discovered my child dead in her cot. There probably were many things that I could have been fearful that I had done which led to her death, but I did not think of any of those things.

I started CPR and then knew that I had to get outside help, so I ran into the neighbours house with her while I continued CPR and she rang the emergency number.

It never occurred to me to cover up her death because I might be blamed”.


Jennifer, I’m so sorry for your loss.

The same thing happened with my sister. She had an early morning appointment and went into the baby’s room to see if he was still asleep before she had her shower. She found him dead in his cot. She picked him up and, still in flimsy night attire, raced out into the street, screaming for help. Several neighbours ran out to see what the commotion was about. One, a nurse, took charge of the situation while another rang the emergency number. He was her only child.

Isn’t this something any normal parent would do? I just asked my husband, “If you saw one of our children dead in a baby monitor and saw me strangling the other child, what would you do?” He replied, “I’d run into the room, knock you off your feet and try and help the baby”.

I rest my case.

EXACTLY. But CW would have us believe that he wasted this precious time by taking several minutes to squeeze the life out of his wife. Not the actions of a loving father. Then again, none of it was.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

@Jennifer17

“Here is the bench that I am sitting on.

Many years ago, I discovered my child dead in her cot. There probably were many things that I could have been fearful that I had done which led to her death, but I did not think of any of those things.

I started CPR and then knew that I had to get outside help, so I ran into the neighbours house with her while I continued CPR and she rang the emergency number.

It never occurred to me to cover up her death because I might be blamed”.


Jennifer, I’m so sorry for your loss.

The same thing happened with my sister. She had an early morning appointment and went into the baby’s room to see if he was still asleep before she had her shower. She found him dead in his cot. She picked him up and, still in flimsy night attire, raced out into the street, screaming for help. Several neighbours ran out to see what the commotion was about. One, a nurse, took charge of the situation while another rang the emergency number. He was her only child.

Isn’t this something any normal parent would do? I just asked my husband, “If you saw one of our children dead in a baby monitor and saw me strangling the other child, what would you do?” He replied, “I’d run into the room, knock you off your feet and try and help the baby”.

I rest my case.

YASSSSSSS.