Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #26

[Jennifer17]

The MIL did not give the ice cream to SW’s children. This rumor has grown legs & sprouted wings.

We do not know that.

 

[whisperOFwings]

I was on another case for 2 months, (Pommy mommy was there) and stuff like that wasn't allowed by mods without facts to back it up. I guess in this case it is because SW is a potential suspect... we have CW to thank for that. Jmo

Except, don't people have to be named by LE to be a suspect? LE haven't named her as a suspect, her murderer has.

This is what I'm confused about.
I'm thinking about Travis A, the threads stayed mostly civil.
There were different views but no unsubstantiated rumors allowed.
Kept it a healthy conversation for all.

 

[esayer]

There is a difference between believing that his side of things could be true, that she killed her children based on what happened that night from his word and media interviews, police reports, as that will come up in trial... and dragging her through the mud with no guidelines.

Question for any of the attorneys here (@gitana1 ?) but in a trial, as ugly as the character assassination may get by defense, aren't there rules and guidelines as to what is admissible and what isn't? I can't fathom that it would be OK to put the victim on trial by allowing anything and everything to be thrown at her, real and completely made up i.e. BPD, MBP etc. as a defense for CW until something sticks.

I'm feeling like that is how it is here, though. There is little to no practical reasoning for most of the negative things that have been suggested about her. It seems like because CW said she killed her children, it is fine to say literally anything about Shanann with zero evidence or reasoning whatsoever. A free for all. We've gone beyond discussing rationally why HE did what he did, and have minimized his guilt and gone straight to analyzing every bit of her SM account and her mothering skills, her character. Then just guessing at things randomly almost to the point of creating a fake Shanann that could have been the one who would have killed her kids and left poor Chris a victim.

Can we have another reminder that these are real people here?! There's an underlying disrespect in trying to shape her into a villanous character to fit the wild theories.

What we know for sure is that HE is a killer. He admitted to ignoring his dying children, he admitted to murdering his wife and unborn son, and he admitted to covering it all up. He admitted to lying multiple times. He admitted to cheating. HE is charged with multiple crimes because both the police and the DA felt the evidence was there and solid.

Why this doesn't give a slight bias or implication of his guilt over hers is beyond me. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

we live in upsidedown world these days.

 

[Sleuthine]

IMO people want to believe him because it's so hard to fathom that a seemingly good father could do something so incredibly horrific. Our logical, rational, empathetic selves cannot comprehend this level of evil.

Absolutely. Yes.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

Why? Because this crime is so out of the ordinary something unheard of happened behind those closed doors. By all accounts this was the normal financially over extended young middle class family. There were no long criminal histories, past histories of violence or a long list of people labeling one as a 'psycho'. Just normal people that we have a unique insight into because of a heavy SM presence.

I have two theories which is why is stated 50/50. I believe SW had a lot to lose if her marriage failed. It appears their financial outlook had been bleak for some time. She appeared to me to have a high maintenance lifestyle that needed cash flow and losing the stable income from CW would be a huge hit. I really just do not think she was making that much money with Thrive simply because it costs a lot to maintain the MLM charade. Part of the MLM 'recipe for success' is to show off how successful you are financially which means spending the money you earn. There is a reason most MLM's push things like luxury cars, that is part of the image. It would also damage the perfect social media image she relied on to push her product to a network of strangers. Then she needed support such as a caretaker for the kids when she goes on these MLM networking vacations. She was used to being in control and the loss of that could cause an explosive situation. Add all that up coupled with the looming argument with a husband who is planning to leave you could cause a reaction totally out of character and unexpected, the proverbial 'snap'.

The rest of it could play out just as his confession went. He claims he murdered a murderer. The lies and body disposals were from a panicked man who knew no one would believe him as he stood in the house with a dead family. He tried to bury them but found the task impossible in the time allotted so the children were hidden in the tank out of necessity. Bottom line, she had every reason to keep things together. Her entire identity was dependent on it. He was a man overcome by rage and then by panicked self preservation.

The other theory pretty much models others that have been posted about CW so I won't reiterate it. He simply snapped and killed everyone and his plan was foiled by a friend who interjected herself before he finished the cleanup.

However, it just doesn't make much sense. It seemed clear he wanted out, she appeared to be expecting it from conversations with others on the trips. He wasn't the one struggling to keep it together to maintain control, she was. From my view, the one who is losing control of their marriage because their spouse is leaving is the one more likely to snap and kill the family as the ultimate act of vengeance. If I can't have you no one will type of thoughts, the guy who is ready to leave it behind isn't. He had no need to kill anyone to move on, he was the one with the stable job so all he needed to do was walk away. Killing the family does nothing for him. He has to know the suspicion alone would be insurmountable and making a family disappear certainly has no financial benefit.

Those factors are what led me to look at the 'what if his story does have some truth'. I know it won't be received well on here but so be it.

Excellent post, Ray9898, and thanks for putting your ideas out there.

I, too, need more facts before firmly deciding about total guilt, even though CW certainly does look guilty on all counts. None of it makes sense and we're all trying to find some notion of a cause, because the idea of someone seemingly normal "snapping" doesn't make sense, and utterly scares us that our own family members could be capable of the same.

I posted a theory yesterday but think it got lost during the time the board went down and in the midst of the "chiro, coconut and closet" talk (thanks to Pommy for that alliteration earlier today!).

As you wrote above, Ray9898, who would believe his story that SW killed both girls? 99.5% of people wouldn't. We are witnessing that now, on this board and others. Could he have realized just that, in those 2-3 hours that night, and somehow decided that hiding them and concocting his story made better sense? That's hard for me to believe, esp given that he seemed to love the girls. But in his paniced state, assuming his story has some truth, he knew he was screwed and made VERY, very bad decisions, and then lied to cover a lie to cover a lie because he just got in deeper.

That doesn't help me understand why or how SW could have done anything like this, or what could possibly have happened in that short time period to cause her to "snap." OR how he could be so composed the next day, or on air, etc.

So one theory that bops around in my head is that the one daughter who was supposedly blue, passed away under his watch accidentally. Bad asthma attack, perhaps. Daddy was sleeping or too busy on Twitter or whatever to notice anything happened to her. SW arrives home, checks on the little ones and goes BALLISTIC. Rather than calling 911, they get into a physical fight of some sort, and remember, she is out to kill (him, so to speak), so he has to be physically firm back, and winds up killing her. And here is where my "theory" ends in my head - because why would he then kill the remaining daughter?????

Ok, head is spinning again. Do we really have to wait until Nov for another court appearance?

 

[MsBetsy]

BBM And therein lies the problem.

Witness: Cece had a tree allergy
Prosecution: Objection your honor, IRRELEVANT!
Judge: SUSTAINED

Witness: Her closets were extremely organized.
Prosecution: Objection your honor, IRRELEVANT!
Judge: SUSTAINED

Witness: She took the girls to the chiropractor.
Prosecution: Objection your honor, IRRELEVANT!
Judge: SUSTAINED

MOO

Yes! defense shuffling through paperwork " Where is the treenut allergy evidence! Oh thats right, she made it up."

 

[NuttMegg]

#5

Taking sick kids to the doctor is a sign of what, exactly? And what constitutes "often"? That is totally subjective. My oldest child has 4 appointments per month, which is definitely a lot compared to my daughter who only goes 4 times a year. However, I have 2 appointments every week, which is more than my son. My "often" and somene else's "often" may differ by definition. IMO

That whole line of attack...re Shan'nan and using doctors for her kids, making her more likely to have killed them (the only thing I can deduce they are implying) I don't get it at all.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

This is something I've thought about as well (LE naming a suspect vs. the suspect naming a different/additional suspect and how that affects our discussion here). Although I think Tricia has said it is ok to speculate on CW's version of events.
MOO.

There's just been pages and pages of character assassination against SW and the 'ol' CW says she did it', so she must have!
I find it difficult to relate when some choose SW's fb as evidence of something sinister while CW gets a free ride because he was thought of as a nice guy.
It's like what CW did somehow makes sense or was understandable, in what universe is this possible?

 

[SausagePizza]

It has been mentioned that CW was always looking at his videos or FB. He may have been looking at what his wife was posting? Just a thought.

 

[MerryB]

I AM NOT SAYING THAT HE DID NOT KILL THEM

But here are some things that are interesting to me until more info is given

1. For those that do not believe that doctors do not give intense procedures that are not needed, this is the case of Gypsy Rose Blanchard. Murder of Dee Dee Blanchard - Wikipedia

I am NOT referencing this because of MBP which I do not believe SW had. I am merely referencing because of the doctor’s unneeded and inaccurate treatments. It happens.

2. People are saying he made up the separation to NAU when she was at the door. How do people explain that SW’s mother’s friend was talking about it in North Carolina?

3. There are people who love drama. Ordinary events are stretched to provide drama. For instance, getting immunization records for the airline trip.

I looked on multiple sites and kids flying under age 14 are no big deal re ID.This is one example of an ordinary event made dramatic.

4. I have a friend who truly has had a tragic life. But she makes up stuff to make it even more so. She loves the drama and what she gets from it. Lots of gifts, lunches, free stays at nice places.

Never on her FB have I heard people questioning anything. She did tell me her older sister is sick of all of the drama. My friend was outraged about the comment.

5. People have been saying why they think SW could have killed the children. The disregard of allergies. The videos of her being very insensitive to the children.

The bringing them to the doctor so often.

6.

People then say how those are ridiculous. But those are some of the reasons that seem concerning .

Even if she killed the kids, he killed her. So hidng them all saves him. There is no getting around that he killed her and he was going to prison unless he got rid of all evidence.

7. Was he hiding his true self all of those years? The only people I have self diagnosed as sociopaths are unpleasant. They lie, cheat in little ways . There are inconsistencies in things they say and do

Most people are not analyzing orhers very much until their own lives are impacted by a person. Maybe in retrospect people will remember things that now have meaning.

What a great post, my fellow @human ! Very well-thought, concise & civil.

 

[Nudgee]

I think I have some PTSD from that whole debate. I haven't even been able to look at my wardrobe without palpitations since.

Just when the closet discussion settled down, last night I watched a SW FB live that had she and NA & another person sampling those Thrive Probars and it showed SW in her kitchen pantry.... oh my goodness she was organized.... I have never seen a panty so perfect!
I actually straightened up my panty this morning after seeing hers.

What I was really looking for was a FB live where SW is in her kitchen about to make something.... I thought she said brownies with walnuts but not sure. Is there an area on here which shows the FB links that have been posted.. TIA !

 

[Sleuthine]

Yes, but it doesn't take much to label a loving mother a bad mother. The things that she has been judged on are petty and irrelevant IMO. With a bit of malice thrown in.

Trying not to defend CW and trying to not widely speculate without being totally unreasonable. I just don't know if it is so black and white. Either her or him. One of the deaths, the first, may have been an accident that was then welcome by CW.

 

[brookryn]

Other interesting tidbits: we cannot scrutinize C.W.’s social media usage because he wiped it a week prior to the murders. How convenient! Perhaps he was posting non-stop? Who can prove otherwise? I’d be willing to bet he was on his phone as much as she was. (And MOO: She was using SM mostly for work/PR while he was using mostly for fun and for sexting

Ah yes, whenever there’s tinder, there’s gotta be pics. As a single woman who uses Tinder, I want the deets on his profile. It terrifies me that CW probably had profiles, & seemingly comes off as a normal nice guy. Aside from maybe pinging the gay vibe a bit, I wouldn’t look at him on a profile and be like yep there’s a guy who will kill his family. My Tinder days have taken a hit the last few wks because I’m paranoid now.

His AP with supposedly TB is absolutely disgusting. I’m not sure I believe the TB storyline, because I’m not really sure how anyone could be into those huge lips. It sure will be interesting to see what all does come out though. I find all that way more interesting than closets & allergies for sure. Bring on the D pics!!! (Haha I’m kidding. Sarcasm level 100)

 

[Starkville]

You know, it seems to me that it is friends of CW who are trying very hard to present that front, that it was HE who tried to separate from her. Where do we have any proof at all that it was so one-sidedly his demand? Except for the affidavit after she, conveniently, was in her grave and could not say otherwise.

We don’t have any proof of anything.

The reason I think - and it’s JMO - he wanted out is because HE was acting distant, according to Shanann and her friends. My assumption is that a person who wants to be in a relationship, doesn’t disengage and act distant.

And of course we know that police found evidence of extramarital activity. There’s not an inkling to indicate that Shanann was even looking at another man.

Furthermore, it’s not an indictment of Shanann’s character to say that he wanted to leave her. It makes HIM look like a jerk for ditching his pregnant wife and adorable (and adoring) daughters.

And I wish with all my heart that he HAD left them.


ETA: and sometimes weak people who don’t want to “look like the bad guy” will act out so severely that the other person is forced to do the dirty work and break up with them. We have all seen that. Chris was the passive one, and might have been goading Shanann into being the one to leave. It’s possible.

 

[MsBetsy]

That whole line of attack...re Shan'nan and using doctors for her kids, making her more likely to have killed them (the only thing I can deduce they are implying) I don't get it at all.

I can't see it ever being used by the defense. . . Unless they are reading this for ideas. But seriously, there has to be be a lot more than all the things we know to lean in that direction. When all the text messages come in with examples of her desire to kill her children, or evidence that she caused her child to be very ill by giving her salt, or some such evidence from the medical records, than this case will take a drastic turn. Then we can do all the bashing that we want. If it happens. Jmo

 

[JudgeJudi]

@Marli61

“IIRCC he didn't say the word "separation" at all in his porch interviews. NUA said that when she alerted him that SW wasn't responding to calls or texts, CW told her that he & SW had discussed separation. NUA then told CW that that wasn't her concern at the moment & that issue was between CW & SW”.

Yes, not in the porch interviews, but he did tell LE. The Arrest Warrant states:

“Chris said he woke up around 5:00 AM and began talking to Shanann about marital separation and informed her he wanted to initiate the separation”.

After making that announcement he got out of bed, got dressed and had his truck idling on the driveway 15 minutes later. And pigs may fly.

 

[ray9898]

BBM, I disagree with this. She did not kill him because 'if I can't have you no one will', he killed her. .

That does not mean that wasn't the plan, a plan that was foiled in the middle just like is being surmised in the CW theories as to why he failed.

 

[mtnlites]

Ah yes, whenever there’s tinder, there’s gotta be pics. As a single woman who uses Tinder, I want the deets on his profile. It terrifies me that CW probably had profiles, & seemingly comes off as a normal nice guy. Aside from maybe pinging the gay vibe a bit, I wouldn’t look at him on a profile and be like yep there’s a guy who will kill his family. My Tinder days have taken a hit the last few wks because I’m paranoid now.

His AP with supposedly TB is absolutely disgusting. I’m not sure I believe the TB storyline, because I’m not really sure how anyone could be into those huge lips. It sure will be interesting to see what all does come out though. I find all that way more interesting than closets & allergies for sure. Bring on the D pics!!! (Haha I’m kidding. Sarcasm level 100)

That is where I am with TB. I can buy that he had relations with a man. It is the man himself that sets off my hinky meter.

Lots of people are saying that SW spent a lot of money and was irresponsible, yet CW allegedly gave TB around $1,000 in cash and gifts, including stuff from Sephora.

 

[Ilovemy3boys]

The MIL did not give the ice cream to SW’s children. This rumor has grown legs & sprouted wings.

How do you know this?

 

[natsound]

I think the reasoning in his theory makes perfect sense. Why did CW seem so intent to make others aware that he wanted the separation? Maybe it was the other way around. The affair could be his way of making sure he had something in place before the separation. He may have anticipated it for awhile. And the fact that she left for 5 weeks instead of sticking around to work on her marriage. Maybe to her it was a trial separation. Does anyone know if there was a specific reason she left the girls home? I don't know much about the trip. Jmo

BBM

Maybe because he did want the separation. In fact, he wanted to erase SW from his life. His kids too. And that's what he tried to do.

I don't believe, however, that SW was as happy in the marriage as she presented herself to be.

 

[Sleuthine]

BBM

It's an old syndrome that I hope disappears with a new generation of color blind/gender blind citizens. Look at the trouble a women politician has getting elected. She has to have a loving family, god help her if she chose not to or could not have children, has to be good looking enough, but not TOO good looking, educated but not too educated, and so on. There is a whole generation (or 2) of women who will judge other women negatively before they will judge a man at all. IMO

You are right, these women do exist. Just for myself speaking, I am for sure not one of them. The only thing why I can speak more to some of SW actions is that we had a similar life (both female, kids similar age etc)