Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #28

[Tigerlily75]

I feel so bad for all the family and friends - it's so senseless. If there is a trial by jury I can't help, but think of the poor jurors.

On a side note: If we had a mock trial here on WS I get the feeling many wouldn't want me as a juror.
jmo

I feel desperately sorry for the family and friends too, all sides. And yes the poor jurors, who will likely see autopsy photos. Just awful.

I think you’d be a fine juror. I’m sure I look like a bad jury pick, but in reality I could go into the trial impartial and listen intently to the facts of the case. We just have so few facts right now.

I watched the entire Bella Bond trial and started out thinking he was guilty. The evidence changed my mind. I haven’t followed up on any appeals, but just based on the original trial, I 100% believed they convicted the wrong person. At the very least there was tons of reasonable doubt and I would not have been able to convict. I was shocked when they did. It’s a very serious thing to put a man away for life and if there’s genuine reasonable doubt, you cannot convict.

 

[nwmouse]

Your theory was my theory at the very beginning.. I’ve wavered back and forth a few things since, but I think at this point I’d still stick with that theory. It really was my first gut instinct.

I think she was ambushed, and I think she was blindsided. I think that until the last few weeks when it’s reported he grew distant and wasn’t being his usual self with her and the kids, she had believed she had a good marriage.

Friends reported in MSM that an affair had crossed her mind, but not seriously. Both AT and NUA said that. She knew he was acting strangely but she didn’t know why. She joked that maybe he was having an affair, but then dismissed it as “he has no game”.

That also fits in with the following: before she went away for 6 weeks, he didn’t have much time for an affair. One of the things she loved about where they were living was the numerous activities on the weekends, particularly concerts. She would often mention things they were doing in her videos on the weekend, like they were going to an 80’s concert on a Saturday night. It’s also been said that they were very scheduled. Very! So when did he have time for an affair?!

So that makes me think the affair flourished during those 5 weeks she was in NC. He visited them in NC for the last (sixth) week and was reportedly “not his usual self” and was less interested in the kids.

Perhaps AP asked him to leave his wife. Perhaps AP didn’t know SW was pregnant. Either way, we know he was having an affair, and it’s a very common factor in these cases.

He deletes his Facebook account approximately one week before the murders.

Maybe, murder was the easier answer to him than leaving his pregnant wife and two young kids. Divorce with enmeshed financials, three kids, and child support is an 18 year long messy affair.

JMO

BBM:
The AP is allegedly a work colleague so I guess he could have found time during lunch etc when they could be together? MOO MOO

 

[whisperOFwings]

welcome Applecross ( one of my favourite places in Scotland BTW)

Re analysis of the interviews, this was the best analysis I read which I posted back in the first threads in August. See what you think of it, if you haven't already. It's a long twitter thread.
Dr. Jack Brown on Twitter

.


This is fascinating. I hadn't read it before. The part about CW not touching his face is telling. It made an impact on me because I realize I touch touch my own face in the way he describes (covering mouth, hands on cheeks) just from READING about these cases. How could he not have more reaction thinking about his own dead children?? Mind boggling.

Thanks for the link, I also missed it somehow. Had to go find @cottonweaver post and 'like' it.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I feel desperately sorry for the family and friends too, all sides. And yes the poor jurors, who will likely see autopsy photos. Just awful.

I think you’d be a fine juror. I’m sure I look like a bad jury pick, but in reality I could go into the trial impartial and listen intently to the facts of the case. We just have so few facts right now.

I watched the entire Bella Bond trial and started out thinking he was guilty. The evidence changed my mind. I haven’t followed up on any appeals, but just based on the original trial, I 100% believed they convicted the wrong person. At the very least there was tons of reasonable doubt and I would not have been able to convict. I was shocked when they did. It’s a very serious thing to put a man away for life and if there’s genuine reasonable doubt, you cannot convict.

I think you would be a fine juror as well. Being impartial is exactly what I would look for in a juror. I've watched a few trials that didn't go how I thought they would or should too. I try to look at both sides on these threads. It's been extremely tough to do in this case.

 

[Medstudies]

BBM Respectfully disagree. Maybe frustrated and hurt. If she got up on her feet after her first divorce, she would likely had the strength to overcome this one as well; more so this time around because she was a mom. MOO MOO MOO

And I agree with you Mosaic.

MOO- SW wasn’t a coward like the cheater/killer. She appeared to be a pretty savvy person. I personally think that’s why he ambushed her (or to use his words “barrel rushed” her). He knew divorce would be costly and she would be a formidable opponent.

And here’s a link to a global study (published in the Oxford Handbook): “results indicated that betrayed spouses learned from the experience, and had better future relationships. They also experienced more personal growth outside their relationships.”

Intrasexual Mate Competition and Breakups: Who Really Wins? - Oxford Handbooks

 

[Tigerlily75]

The problem we have is the information that LE included in the affidavid is an incredibly sparse and condensed version of the actual events that happened. It’s highly likely that C.W. included many more details in his confession. The way it was written, almost in outline form, can’t possibly be word verbatim. It was written as main points only, in succession, as the investigation unfolded. It included enough to justify CW’s arrest, though not enough to justify First Degree Murder. It’s possible that C.W. did say he ran into CeCe’s room, knocked SW off CeCe and started strangling her. It’s possible he said he checked for signs of life in the children, and they were dead. We don’t know everything that was said.

This is true and good points, but I base it on the following:

Firstly, what would a reasonable person do in the circumstances given? Jurors are asked to apply common sense.

What we DO know:

There were no calls to 911
and
He didn’t seek help from any neighbors

^ both or either of the above is what I believe a reasonable person would do in the circumstances. They would seek help for their children. People stop breathing all the time and can be revived.

Also add:
No screaming or commotion was heard by neighbors, despite their close proximity.

That’s where I’m at right now with the information we do have, of course who knows what will come to light in the future. Things could change.

 

[katydid23]

I feel desperately sorry for the family and friends too, all sides. And yes the poor jurors, who will likely see autopsy photos. Just awful.

I think you’d be a fine juror. I’m sure I look like a bad jury pick, but in reality I could go into the trial impartial and listen intently to the facts of the case. We just have so few facts right now.

I watched the entire Bella Bond trial and started out thinking he was guilty. The evidence changed my mind. I haven’t followed up on any appeals, but just based on the original trial, I 100% believed they convicted the wrong person. At the very least there was tons of reasonable doubt and I would not have been able to convict. I was shocked when they did. It’s a very serious thing to put a man away for life and if there’s genuine reasonable doubt, you cannot convict.

I totally agree with you on the Bella Bond trial. I think Mom should have been convicted instead of him.

 

[Jennifer17]

Nor I! There is still much information that we really need in order to believe we know what happened. (At least I need more info.) Fugue is the word that popped into my mind as I was falling asleep. I looked it up this morning, wondering if CW could have been in a type of fugue state. Perhaps a psychologist could comment? I'm also wondering what happened just prior to SW 6 week trip. Something traumatic, I'm imagining. The crux, in my opinion. Also, sometimes I believe 100% that he killed all of them, and other times I believe him. Either way, he did commit murder. But I cannot stop wondering about his claim. Why even say it? He's on the hook for murder no matter what. So, I wouldn't make a good juror as of today. There are scenarios I can imagine in my mind that may mitigate a tiny bit. I believe there are secrets we will never know, on both sides. Moo, imo.

People in a fugue state have temporary amnesia. They do not know who they are or where they come from. It is not selective amnesia about where his family is.

 

[Allabouttrial]

I feel desperately sorry for the family and friends too, all sides. And yes the poor jurors, who will likely see autopsy photos. Just awful.

I think you’d be a fine juror. I’m sure I look like a bad jury pick, but in reality I could go into the trial impartial and listen intently to the facts of the case. We just have so few facts right now.

I watched the entire Bella Bond trial and started out thinking he was guilty. The evidence changed my mind. I haven’t followed up on any appeals, but just based on the original trial, I 100% believed they convicted the wrong person. At the very least there was tons of reasonable doubt and I would not have been able to convict. I was shocked when they did. It’s a very serious thing to put a man away for life and if there’s genuine reasonable doubt, you cannot convict.

I'm really surprised at that one. I have him and her equally guilty in my eyes.

 

[nwmouse]

Hmm, I don't see him upbeat, casual and happy about anything in that interview.
jmo

Its interesting to see the differing opinions about CW's demeanor in the "hipster" interview here on WS. (That's how I think of it because of his appearance and behavior.) I have re-watched the hipster video many times and what I observe is someone who is furtive and uneasy NOT because his wife and children are missing, but because he KNOWS he's not going to get away with it. He underestimated LE and media, and thought he'd have more time to "tidy up loose ends", but NUA threw a spanner in his works. I'll bet he wishes every day that he was back in his "unhappy" marriage and not in the miserable cell he'll be in for the rest of his life.

 

[MassGuy]

Thanks for the link, I also missed it somehow. Had to go find @cottonweaver post and 'like' it.

I also missed this. In earlier threads, I pointed out my concerns with these two issues. His wording is much better than mine though:

“One could stop this analysis right here, for Watts' lack of sadness-grief-empathy is profound and cannot be over-emphasized.”

“This is a classic display of what is known as "Duping Delight", wherein a person feels a true joy-happiness in their belief that they are fooling you.”

He was lying to us, and enjoying it.

 

[dgfred]

Right on the mark again mouse.

 

[PommyMommy]

Exactly. I totally understand the curiosity over why the state wants to seal the reports and I share it, but it's not a conspiracy to hide them from CW in order to continue prosecuting him for murdering the girls. If the evidence proves CW did not murder the girls, they will drop those charges.

AFAIK, They have asked the court not to disclose them to the public, not the defense. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. MOO

 

[Layla123]

After @gitana1 posted the list of cases where the autopsy results were kept sealed, I started reading about Sandra Cantu. That poor little girl was sexually assaulted with a rolling pin by a deeply disturbed neighbor. And then I started asking myself why was Bella killed first? I don’t see any reason why C.W. would lie about Bella being the first to be strangled, but who knows? She was starting kindergarten. She was the oldest daughter. SW was not home at the time. People Magazine did say C.W. had many sexual encounters with a wide variety of partners. Is it possible C.W. was so sexually disturbed that he could have assaulted Bella? And then accidentally killed her in the process? That’s why LE doesn’t want to release the autopsy reports? And the other murders are part of a coverup? God, I hope not.

 

[dgfred]

I think he realized as the interview went on that his ship was taking on water very quickly. Then he went into that 'if somebody took them' bullhockey and around in circles.

 

[MassGuy]

AFAIK, They have asked the court not to disclose them to the public, not the defense. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. MOO

Correct. The public is the concern.

 

[dgfred]

AFAIK, They have asked the court not to disclose them to the public, not the defense. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. MOO

Right... no way to keep them from the defense (discovery)

 

[PommyMommy]

Someone responded up threads that that information was correct and it was in the warrant. The information that she was not feeling well was in the warrant, the information about her blood sugar being low was not in the warrant and I have not seen that in mainstream media either that I can recall.

You're correct. I responded to that question, but I missed the part about the low blood sugar. The affidavit states that NUA told police Shanann was 15 months pregnant and wasn't feeling well. It does NOT state anything about low blood sugar. Sorry if I confused anyone.

 

[Allabouttrial]

After @gitana1 posted the list of cases where the autopsy results were kept sealed, I started reading about Sandra Cantu. That poor little girl was sexually assaulted with a rolling pin by a deeply disturbed neighbor. And then I started asking myself why was Bella killed first? I don’t see any reason why C.W. would lie about Bella being the first to be strangled, but who knows? She was starting kindergarten. She was the oldest daughter. SW was not home at the time. People Magazine did say C.W. had many sexual encounters with a wide variety of partners. Is it possible C.W. was so sexually disturbed that he could have assaulted Bella? And then accidentally killed her in the process? That’s why LE doesn’t want to release the autopsy reports? And the other murders are part of a coverup? God, I hope not.

I think that's a MASSIVE stretch to even go there.

 

[dgfred]

Correct. The public is the concern.

I wonder about that... or if it to keep CW from concocting a new story for the time being until they get more of their ducks in a row.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Deleted duplicate

 

[PommyMommy]

Delete...computer went wacko

 

[MassGuy]

After @gitana1 posted the list of cases where the autopsy results were kept sealed, I started reading about Sandra Cantu. That poor little girl was sexually assaulted with a rolling pin by a deeply disturbed neighbor. And then I started asking myself why was Bella killed first? I don’t see any reason why C.W. would lie about Bella being the first to be strangled, but who knows? She was starting kindergarten. She was the oldest daughter. SW was not home at the time. People Magazine did say C.W. had many sexual encounters with a wide variety of partners. Is it possible C.W. was so sexually disturbed that he could have assaulted Bella? And then accidentally killed her in the process? That’s why LE doesn’t want to release the autopsy reports? And the other murders are part of a coverup? God, I hope not.

It’s impossible to know for sure, because on its face, the prosecution motion to seal the autopsy results makes sense, regardless of sexual assault.

I do think it’s entirely possible that something like that was going on. I think in that scenario, it’s more likely that Bella wasn’t killed in the commission of an assault, but rather, in an effort to keep it a secret.

In this scenario, he killed them all because he feared discovery.

*Pure speculation, as we have no indication that sexual assault occurred.

 

[Lore Listener]

I believe CW would have to pay even if SW made more. IMO

What makes you believe that, specifically? There's a very, very false belief out there that women always make out like bandits in divorces, getting full custody if they ask for it and somehow being allotted a higher percentage for child support. I work in the field of DV (and am on a policy team) and believe me, that is completely a myth and in Colorado, I can cite the laws and statistics to prove it. Unless Shannan could prove physical abuse against the children by CW in court, all CW would have to do is ask for 50% custody (called "parenting time" in CO) and he would get it. Then, their incomes would get plugged into a formula and if SW was indeed making more, she would definitely be paying HIM child support. That's the law here, on paper and in practice.

 

[dgfred]

Correct. The public is the concern.

I wonder about that since the defense will be able to release them if they wish.
Maybe to keep CW from making up a new story until they get all their ducks in a row.

 

[Lady Justice21]

@dixiegirl1035 said: ↑
I keep hearing about the dogs wailing at 5:15 am. I've never seen that documented at that time. Does anybody have a link or is this a rumor that is getting legs?



I do not believe the timestamp of 5:15AM fits any of the published information about the dog bark and/or requested wellness check for the dear dog. I recall the neighbor's account on live TV, and it corroborates with the print news that she reported the dog, but nowhere was the hour given. It also doesn't follow that she'd call in a report at 5:15AM, but more likely when she believed the family was away from home, and dog was unattended. Snip from the repor above:

...On the day the family disappeared, however, the barking was different.
“It was like he was being punished or hurt or something,” the neighbor said. He was just howling. Because we had a dog, I said, ‘What the hell is that all about? So we called the police and asked them to check on the dog. And it turned out that he was OK. They did a wellness check on the dog.”

This has me confused. "The day the family disappeared" so at some point that actual day the police were there and found the dog ok? Was Dieter kept outside or would someone have had to let the police in to check? Depending on that it gives me so many other questions about the police being there that day either prior to the welfare check for SW or after. Not that it necessarily impacts anything or adds facts to the case just confuses me.