GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #29

[MerryB]

You are comparing professional public defenders who work for the State of Colorado to a narcissistic rookie attorney who had ethical problems so severe that he was denied admission to the bar for eight years after law school, and who was only trying to make a name for himself at the expense of his client.

I find it highly inappropriate that so many here are so eager to accuse the Office of the Public Defender of unethical behavior without a shred of evidence beyond a hunch. What is this based on? The fact that women seem to hate SW? We've never observed the fact that women are judgmental of other women? That's not breaking news or anything.

Yes, he actually has a stellar reputation if you look him up.

 

[MKZoo]

So, they had financial problems, (who doesn't?), and yes he was fooling around, which is "big trouble", eventually, but not "big trouble in the home" which has a very different, sinister, connotation, IMO.

Exactly. Their lives were definitely not free of some big troubles. But I don't think what is going on in the water video is related to those troubles. IMO.

 

[JudgeJudi]

@dixiegirl1035

“Do we know which day the phone was found? Was it found during the first walkthrough when Nicole was there?”

Coonrod found the phone and briefed Baumhover.

As per the Arrest Affidavit:

“Upon arrival Det. Baumhover was briefed by officer Coonrod and also learned Shannan’s personal effects including her cell phone, purse, wallet, and medication were located in the house”.

We don’t know who found the phone and I’m unaware if NUA was in the house when the walkthrough was conducted. It’s possible that she was as it was a welfare check which is very different to a search.

Amanda Thayner said she was never without her phone. When she and Nick went to their home for dinner and played Uno afterwards, SW had it with her even then. For this reason I think it’s very likely she took it upstairs with her that night, not CW.

When he left the house to dispose of the bodies, he had no need to hide the phone between the cushions because all the doors and windows were closed/locked, the front door latched, and the garage door wasn't able to be opened by anyone unless they had a lever or something similar.

 

[MerryB]

@gitana1

“That, and the lack of serious girlfriends prior to this. And I have seen no evidence of close friendships outside husbands of his wife's friends".

This was the exact same situation in the Henri van Breda case. He axed to death his mother, father, brother and came within a hair’s breadth of killing his sister. The wounds were absolutely horrific as he hit all of them on the head with tremendous force multiple times.

His elder brother was studying towards his Masters degree at university, played in many team sports, had lots of friends, a very pretty girlfriend and was well-liked by everyone. Henri on the other hand had been a loner since early childhood. He decided to have a “gap” year from uni half way through the year, seemingly had no friends at all, and didn’t have a girlfriend until after he’d been charged with the murders, although she was unaware of the charges when they met. During the trial he claimed he had a girlfriend at the time of the murders but she denied this at the trial. The first officer at the scene said Henri had been emotional, but not crying. He showed no emotions after the murders, during the trial or during sentencing when he received 3 life sentences, 15 for attempted murder and 1 for obstructing the course of justice.

As @gitana1 said, “Sort of a shadow personality, subsumed by stronger ones around him, since childhood”. This sounds like a classic case of a family annihilator, a term I’d never heard of until the Watts case.

With all do respect, IMO y’all are stretching here. No prior relationships? No real friendships? Maybe we should ask someone who knew him before we make these assumptions. I personally think we may be trying to fit C.W. into an entirely different box than the one he truly belongs in. JMO

 

[JudgeJudi]

With all do respect, IMO y’all are stretching here. No prior relationships? No real friendships? Maybe we should ask someone who knew him before we make these assumptions. I personally think we may be trying to fit C.W. into an entirely different box than the one he truly belongs in. JMO

My second paragraph related to @gitana1's para:

“That, and the lack of serious girlfriends prior to this. And I have seen no evidence of close friendships outside husbands of his wife's friends".

The balance of my post related to Henri van Breda and how he displayed family annihilator tendencies.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Where we are running into trouble with this is that we can't link to that post because it's against TOS.

Fortunately I was reading your post and I've removed the links.

 

[Deleted member 182072]

Admittedly, I've haven't spent much time considering whether the absurdly small chance that CW's latest tale of unprecedented events is true. I've also seen the analyses of SW's videos simply as attempts to insinuate that she was somehow a bad mom or wife because I've failed to see any relevant connection being made to the murders.

I'm trying to understand. What is the connection exactly?

Is it that CW was so used to being directed by Shanann that he could do longer act as any reasonable person would by trying to save his girls and call 911?

Was he so used to no longer thinking for himself that he didn't realize he would be the primary (if not the only) suspect in their disappearances?

Did she make him forget that people lose all credibility by lying and that he didn't realize that he would be blamed for all the murders by trying to cover everything up?

Did her bossy ways fry his brain cells so much that he didn't understand there would be thorough investigation of all the evidence in the house and his activities and that his affair(s) were only going to make him look even more guilty?

Is it possible he such a loving and dutiful husband (like we saw in those videos), that he hid all the bodies so no one would find out she murdered her babies to protect her legacy?

Or was she such a shrew that explains why he was more relieved than grief-stricken after she murdered Bella and CeCe and forced him to kill her and Nico?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I'm confused, too. On Denver 7's FB post about the disappearance, Jeremy Lindstrom commented and said that the girls were at his house for the birthday party on Sunday. Where we are running into trouble with this is that we can't link to that post because it's against TOS. And I realize that even by typing this, I am straddling that line. However, without bringing it up, it makes the timeline off. I feel like this hinders the discussion. IMO it's important to note that CW had them out in public, around people they knew, earlier on that day. I keep hoping that Lindstrom will do a MSM interview and give the exact date and time in it so that we will have something to link to but, so far, he's only mentioned it on SM.

Maybe he's been advised to not talk publicly by LE, kind of like that friend of Kyron Horman's was told not to speak to the media back when he first went missing. LE seems to be keeping things very close to the vest for this case and doesn't want any leaks that could be detrimental to their case. IMOO.

 

[Sark06]

You can't run out there and tell little kids they should be ashamed of their innocent behavior. (IMO) Obviously the little one is following the example of the older one, yet both are under 5.

Exactly and to their mother that video just shows them as innocent and happy, I am not surprised she wanted to share it with other people who cared for the girls

 

[MerryB]

Thanks @Bill Carson. Between you and @gitana1 I am going to defer to you both on this!

I enjoy and appreciate our VIs’ input as well. I am wondering if any of the attorneys among us practice criminal law?

 

[MKZoo]

Admittedly, I've haven't spent much time considering whether the absurdly small chance that CW's latest tale of unprecedented events is true. I've also seen the analyses of SW's videos simply as attempts to insinuate that she was somehow a bad mom or wife because I've failed to see any relevant connection being made to the murders.

I'm trying to understand. What is the connection exactly?

Is it that CW was so used to being directed by Shanann that he could do longer act as any reasonable person would by trying to save his girls and call 911?

Was he so used to no longer thinking for himself that he didn't realize he would be the primary (if not the only) suspect in their disappearances?

Did she make him forget that people lose all credibility by lying and that he didn't realize that he would be blamed for all the murders by trying to cover everything up?

Did her bossy ways fry his brain cells so much that he didn't understand there would be thorough investigation of all the evidence in the house and his activities and that his affair(s) were only going to make him look even more guilty?

Is it possible he such a loving and dutiful husband (like we saw in those videos), that he hid all the bodies so no one would find out she murdered her babies to protect her legacy?

Or was she such a shrew that explains why he was more relieved than grief-stricken after she murdered Bella and CeCe and forced him to kill her and Nico?

What I find particularly funny about the "I was protecting her reputation" story is that his alternate plan was to allow people to think she stole his children and disappeared forever in retaliation for his divorce request. It just makes zero sense.

 

[JudgeJudi]

"It was an analogy to another case we followed, the Jodi Arias case. The prosecutor found out information, about gas cans, but he never told anybody that he had found the information. Not until trial! No one on his team even knew!

Speaking of Juan Martinez, unless I’ve missed it, did anyone else pick this up:

9/17/18 Jesse Weber substituting for AB

15. It has been reported that C.W. loaded bags and a gas can into his car during the early morning hours the day of the crime.

It was 40 miles each way to the oil field. Why did he have a gas can?

 

[PommyMommy]

@dixiegirl1035

“Do we know which day the phone was found? Was it found during the first walkthrough when Nicole was there?”

Coonrod found the phone and briefed Baumhover.

As per the Arrest Affidavit:

“Upon arrival Det. Baumhover was briefed by officer Coonrod and also learned Shannan’s personal effects including her cell phone, purse, wallet, and medication were located in the house”.

We don’t know who found the phone and I’m unaware if NUA was in the house when the walkthrough was conducted. It’s possible that she was as it was a welfare check which is very different to a search.

Amanda Thayner said she was never without her phone. When she and Nick went to their home for dinner and played Uno afterwards, SW had it with her even then. For this reason I think it’s very likely she took it upstairs with her that night, not CW.

When he left the house to dispose of the bodies, he had no need to hide the phone between the cushions because all the doors and windows were closed/locked, the front door latched, and the garage door wasn't able to be opened by anyone unless they had a lever or something similar.

Good morning.

NUA was present for the well-being check.

Pregnant woman, 2 daughters reported missing in Frederick
Watts' friend said she called police on Monday and walked through the house with officers as they did a welfare check.

 

[ar3593]

Johnny, Juan was the prosecutor in the Jodi Arias trials.

He was very thorough.

Juan Martinez is one of the best prosecutors out there....I watched that entire trial and Juan was a little bulldog determined to bring justice for the Alexander family. He is visibly a man of substance, integrity and emotion. You can tell he was deeply affected by this case. Love him!!!!

 

[Sark06]

Speaking of Juan Martinez, unless I’ve missed it, did anyone else pick this up:

9/17/18 Jesse Weber substituting for AB

15. It has been reported that C.W. loaded bags and a gas can into his car during the early morning hours the day of the crime.

It was 40 miles each way to the oil field. Why did he have a gas can?

Maybe he had a different idea for disposing of the bodies but changed his mind

 

[MKZoo]

Speaking of Juan Martinez, unless I’ve missed it, did anyone else pick this up:

9/17/18 Jesse Weber substituting for AB

15. It has been reported that C.W. loaded bags and a gas can into his car during the early morning hours the day of the crime.

It was 40 miles each way to the oil field. Why did he have a gas can?

Interesting. JM has made me love the idea of gas can evidence. It could be that the truck was low on gas and he didn’t want to stop anywhere - a la JA - and up with video and financial records of it.

 

[ray9898]

Interesting. JM has made me love the idea of gas can evidence. It could be that the truck was low on gas and he didn’t want to stop anywhere - a la JA - and up with video and financial records of it.

Then why not just put the gas in before you leave?

 

[Thepoet]

Good morning everyone,

I'd like to begin with some facts that I feel should be remembered. By CW's own admission;

He's an adulterer.

He's a liar. Multiple times.

He's a killer! He killed his wife and his unborn child.

He's an obstructer of justice. He transported and hid the bodies and then negotiated with LE about revealing where the bodies were. Where he hid the bodies of his two precious daughters is revolting and unsettling to most people.

All of this is TRUE, by his own admission. No analysis is necessary. So we know CW to be guilty of immoral and criminal acts! But even so CW is entitled to a fair trial and the opportunity to explain what he has done and why.

Now, video can be analysed and interpreted and questioned. Video is one-dimensional and shows us what the person filming and/or directing wants us to see and the filming and direction comes from their perspective and feelings, which we're not privy to. Any conclusions may be correct or erroneous, or a combination. Four people in the videos (1 unborn) can not speak for themselves, can not give an explanation. They cannot defend themselves. They've been silenced forever.

IMHO the balance should tip in favor, for belief and trust of SW and her children. CW cannot be believed or trusted, because of HIS OWN actions and admissions!

Finally, again IMHO, many families have financial problems, many couples have to deal with adultery, all parents have issues with their children (and children with their parents), most families face health issues at some time. None of these are a reason or excuse for violence, especially killing. There was something deep and dark going on in the Watts family and it was seated in one person!

 

[Tigerlily75]

Maybe he had a different idea for disposing of the bodies but changed his mind

I wonder this too, or perhaps he even planned to use the gas can (I’d like to know if it was full) after work that day, but was foiled by NUA. Might explain why he left things behind at the oil site which seems very sloppy - at least a sheet and a bag that we know of, if he was going to burn it all.

Very risky though, even with such a remote location someone could call it in, but people use fire all the time to try and coverup crimes.

 

[BeanieBod]

@Trinket78, @Colorado303, @isalybra

Were any of you aware that CW and SW were planning to separate before this horrible event? Were you surprised when you found out?

Again, thank you for helping us to understand.