Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #30

[SaguaroSpirit]

Bottom line for me is that innocent people have no reason to lie, and lie and lie some more...

 

[BrownRice]

I wonder if there’s a possibility Shannan didn’t know about the delinquent HOA fees and maybe Chris told her it was paid. Perhaps he had a lot of debt she didn’t know about (mistresses ain’t free) and he felt the walls were closing in on him. Just another motive to consider.

 

[PommyMommy]

Maybe he sat on his bed for an hour or so contemplating what he’d just done, and what he was going to do next. Maybe he pulled the covers over his head and cried. Maybe he went down to the kitchen and fixed himself a cup of coffee. We have no way of knowing what he did for those 3 1/2 hours, and we never will know unless he tells us, and even then, he might be lying.

Even if he never tells the truth, we may glean some insight from the digital forensics such as his phone, her phone, the home alarm system, etc. More likely than not, they will tell a different story.

MOO

 

[MerryB]

I assumed the important portion of that sentence was 'putting a dunce cap' on a student in the class. I assumed the 'humiliation' aspect of that old school punishment was what Human was talking about.


But now you are posting this picture of a mom putting her kid in a time out corner at home, and saying that is 'close' to putting a dunce cap on a student at school.


And I am in total disagreement.

OK, I have lots of professional knowledge & experience in this regard. This is my opinion, take it for what it’s worth (or not worth in your opinion).

These pictures are from Thanksgiving Day 2016. So Bella was 2 years old & CeCe was 1. They both appear to be receiving a punishment of standing with their noses in a corner. I will give the benefit of the doubt & assume a 1 year old is not being punished in this manner, although IMO the post does allude to that.

Even if it is just 2 year-old Bella, a pediatrician, child psychologist, or any other professional with deep knowledge of child development would tell you this is not age-appropriate.

Toddlerhood is a particularly vexing time for parents, because this is the age at which children start to become more independent and discover themselves as individuals. Yet they still have a limited ability to communicate and reason.

I’m not stating this to cast judgement on posters who have done this to their own children. I’m looking at this & other things I know & have observed of SW’s parenting style & addressing how this may fit in with the bigger picture.

According to the American Board of Child & Adolescent Psychology, “Time-outs may not be the best approach for the toddler stage. The negative implication of being sent away can teach kids that they're bad rather than promote good behavior. At the toddler stage, we recommend parents instead try redirection, as it is far more effective than discipline tactics at this age.” For example, a cozy corner for the child to look at a book & take a break, usually a minute per each year if age (2 min for a 2 year old, so to speak).

Add to this the fact that the children were publicly shamed by these pictures being posted on SM.

I’m not diagnosing SW by pictures & videos alone, but there are many things (this, the Xmas video with her becoming angry with Bella for not enjoying the experience & repeatedly calling her names, the video where she allowed CeCe to put herself in danger climbing to “learn her lesson,” etc) that raise red flags for me knowing what ultimately happened to these children.

 

[gitana1]

Oh, I'm sure they did too.
MOO

I did.

 

[Charlot123]

I just have this weird gut feeling he’s going to plea. He just doesn’t seem to have the buoyancy of someone like Scott Peterson to mount a vigorous defense against these very serious charges. Some of which he’s already confessed to, so they alone mean many, many years in jail. He’s not coming home anytime soon and he knows it.

It’s almost like he was a bit of a wannabe (!) and just failed dismally at this whole murder thing. He’s reportedly despondent in jail and doesn’t want to talk to anyone including his own family and lawyers..

.. jmo

Shame. But not at doing it - at being caught. Because he wanted to talk to the whole world via that interview the next day after the killings.

 

[PommyMommy]

Then why is the defense refusing to hand them over?

I think what is either being ignored or getting twisted is this:
In order to assist the agent/investigator in identifying the finger/palm print card as belonging to the correct individual, the People would hereby request that the defendant DATE FILED: September 12, 2018 be ordered to submit to a clear and viewable Polaroid Photograph at the time that finger/palm prints are collected. This Polaroid photograph will be immediately stapled to the original finger/palm print card.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/[K] PEOPLE'S MOTION FOR NON-TESTIMONIAL IDENTIFICATION PROCEDURE PURSUANT TO COLORADO RULES OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, RULE 16 II (a) (1).pdf

They want his finger/palm print card along with a Polaroid at the time the finger/palm print is taken so there is no dispute at trial whether or not it is admissable.

MOO

 

[katydid23]

IMO there was no need to either take the picture or post the picture to SM.

Obviously, no one 'needs' to post a picture to SM. But pix of your toddlers getting their first haircuts, first timeouts, first missing front teeth, are all 'traditional' pictures. IMO, it is like a rite of passage.

I have a cute picture of my son at 3, sitting calmly in the timeout chair. And then my daughter at 3, sitting with her arms crossed, and yelling at us, from the chair, saying she was glad she was sitting there because she liked it, lol...

I didn't take those pictures to 'taunt' my children. I took them because they are cute and I was proud of them.

It is like a rite of passage for a child to grow to the age where they are starting to be accountable and responsible for grabbing a toy from their sibling or running into the street when they knew it was not safe. There is nothing wrong with being told to sit down for 2 minutes and think about what just happened. And then to apologize and get a big hug.

It really bothers me that some here are trying to make it out to be cruel or unusual punishment for a mom to give a 3 yr old a timeout.

 

[gitana1]

OK, I have lots of professional knowledge & experience in this regard. This is my opinion, take it for what it’s worth (or not worth in your opinion).

These pictures area from Thanksgiving Day 2016. So Bella was 2 years old & CeCe was 1. They both appear to be receiving a punishment of standing with their noses in a corner. I will give the benefit of the doubt & assume a 1 year old is not being punished in this manner, although IMO the post does allude to that.

Even if it is just 2 year-old Bella, a pediatrician, child psychologist, or any other professional with deep knowledge of child development would tell you this is not age-appropriate.

Toddlerhood is a particularly vexing time for parents, because this is the age at which children start to become more independent and discover themselves as individuals. Yet they still have a limited ability to communicate and reason.

I’m not stating this to cast judgement on posters who have done this to their own children. I’m looking at this & other things I know & have observed of SW’s parenting style & addressing how this may fit in with the bigger picture.

According to the American Board if Child & Adolescent Psychology, “Time-outs may not be the best approach for the toddler stage. The negative implication of being sent away can teach kids that they're bad rather than promote good behavior. At the toddler stage, we recommend parents instead try redirection, as it is far more effective than discipline tactics at this age.”
For example, a cozy corner for the child to look at a book & take a break, usually a minute per each year if age (2 min for a 2 year old, so to speak).

Add to this the fact that the children were publicly shamed by these pictures being posted on SM.

I’m not diagnosing SW by pictures & videos alone, but there are many things (this, the Xmas video with her becoming angry with Bella for not enjoying the experience & repeatedly calling her names, the video where she allowed CeCe to put herself in danger climbing to “learn her lesson,” etc) that raise red flags for me knowing what ultimately happened to these children.

Repeatedly calling her names? What names?

And plenty of parent post about naughty things their kids have done or about their discipline techniques. Especially in toddlerhood. It's kind of a "I'm in the same boat as you all. Dealing with terrible twos."

Not something I would do but it indicates nothing unless they're harming the child.

 

[WildWest]

No...they are doing their job. The shouldn't be willingly doing anything absent a warrant since their client has been charged.

Have you heard of "Katy's Law" in Colorado? I'm still confused about this.

 

[gitana1]

Shame. But not at doing it - at being caught. Because he wanted to talk to the whole world via that interview the next day after the killings.

Three interviews.

 

[katydid23]

I think what is either being ignored or getting twisted is this:
In order to assist the agent/investigator in identifying the finger/palm print card as belonging to the correct individual, the People would hereby request that the defendant DATE FILED: September 12, 2018 be ordered to submit to a clear and viewable Polaroid Photograph at the time that finger/palm prints are collected. This Polaroid photograph will be immediately stapled to the original finger/palm print card.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/[K] PEOPLE'S MOTION FOR NON-TESTIMONIAL IDENTIFICATION PROCEDURE PURSUANT TO COLORADO RULES OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, RULE 16 II (a) (1).pdf

They want his finger/palm print card along with a Polaroid at the time the finger/palm print is taken so there is no dispute at trial whether or not it is admissable.

MOO

OHHHHHHHHH....the State is trying to take away the defense's future ability to question whether these are really their defendants prints or not?

 

[Backstroke10]

I wonder if there’s a possibility Shannan didn’t know about the delinquent HOA fees and maybe Chris told her it was paid. Perhaps he had a lot of debt she didn’t know about (mistresses ain’t free) and he felt the walls were closing in on him. Just another motive to consider.

This is a possibility but as passive and apathetic CW appears to be, I don't see him being in charge of their finances. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

It takes awhile to get in shape. How long ago did he start? Was he thinking about someone else back then?

My question is, if only exercised, or they also took some appetite suppressants. Both of them.

 

[Jennifer17]

OK, I have lots of professional knowledge & experience in this regard. This is my opinion, take it for what it’s worth (or not worth in your opinion).

These pictures area from Thanksgiving Day 2016. So Bella was 2 years old & CeCe was 1. They both appear to be receiving a punishment of standing with their noses in a corner. I will give the benefit of the doubt & assume a 1 year old is not being punished in this manner, although IMO the post does allude to that.

Even if it is just 2 year-old Bella, a pediatrician, child psychologist, or any other professional with deep knowledge of child development would tell you this is not age-appropriate.

Toddlerhood is a particularly vexing time for parents, because this is the age at which children start to become more independent and discover themselves as individuals. Yet they still have a limited ability to communicate and reason.

I’m not stating this to cast judgement on posters who have done this to their own children. I’m looking at this & other things I know & have observed of SW’s parenting style & addressing how this may fit in with the bigger picture.

According to the American Board if Child & Adolescent Psychology, “Time-outs may not be the best approach for the toddler stage. The negative implication of being sent away can teach kids that they're bad rather than promote good behavior. At the toddler stage, we recommend parents instead try redirection, as it is far more effective than discipline tactics at this age.”
For example, a cozy corner for the child to look at a book & take a break, usually a minute per each year if age (2 min for a 2 year old, so to speak).

Add to this the fact that the children were publicly shamed by these pictures being posted on SM.

I’m not diagnosing SW by pictures & videos alone, but there are many things (this, the Xmas video with her becoming angry with Bella for not enjoying the experience & repeatedly calling her names, the video where she allowed CeCe to put herself in danger climbing to “learn her lesson,” etc) that raise red flags for me knowing what ultimately happened to these children.

Except she was a mother trying to do what is best for her family, she is not a paediatrician a teacher with years of training or a social worker.
Many, many families have the time out thing, or go to your room.
For people to point out these tiny little things as evidence that she could have killed them is ridiculous to me.
We have a father who dumped the same little girls in crude oil and lied his head off about it, and people are thinking that she may have killed them because she put them in time out, she made them sit on their fathers knee dressed as santa.
He did nothing but sit there like a big log when they were scared.
Why didn't he comfort them? They were on his knee.

 

[katydid23]

The defense should never rely on the prosecution to produce what they believe could be exculpatory evidence. The best tactic is to make the comparisons themselves after the evidence obtained through discovery. The defense should fight every request to ensure it is Constitutional.

How is it unconstitutional for the defendant in a murder by strangulation trial, to be asked for his palm prints?

 

[gitana1]

Upon arrest would he not have had his prints taken by police ?

Fingerprints are standard. Not palm prints.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

@Layla123

“I know he worked 40 hours a week, and I know he worked out and ran a lot, and those activities take time”.

And so did his extra-curricular activities.

Perhaps this question has been answered before, but I was just wondering if his truck had a built in GPS system?

 

[PommyMommy]

You're post just gave me a thought. I wonder if he ate lunch that day? Was he eating when NAU called at noon or did he stop to get a bite on the way home while he was supposedly running through red lights to get there?

I don't think we know, but it's an interesting thought. I also wonder whether the GPS (assuming there was one in his truck) will reveal whether he was speeding home or not. They should be able to calculate the distance covered using the two points and come up with travel time/speed, right? I am definitely not the most knowledgeable of GPS, lol.
MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

OK, I have lots of professional knowledge & experience in this regard. This is my opinion, take it for what it’s worth (or not worth in your opinion).

These pictures area from Thanksgiving Day 2016. So Bella was 2 years old & CeCe was 1. They both appear to be receiving a punishment of standing with their noses in a corner. I will give the benefit of the doubt & assume a 1 year old is not being punished in this manner, although IMO the post does allude to that.

Even if it is just 2 year-old Bella, a pediatrician, child psychologist, or any other professional with deep knowledge of child development would tell you this is not age-appropriate.

Toddlerhood is a particularly vexing time for parents, because this is the age at which children start to become more independent and discover themselves as individuals. Yet they still have a limited ability to communicate and reason.

I’m not stating this to cast judgement on posters who have done this to their own children. I’m looking at this & other things I know & have observed of SW’s parenting style & addressing how this may fit in with the bigger picture.

According to the American Board if Child & Adolescent Psychology, “Time-outs may not be the best approach for the toddler stage. The negative implication of being sent away can teach kids that they're bad rather than promote good behavior. At the toddler stage, we recommend parents instead try redirection, as it is far more effective than discipline tactics at this age.”
For example, a cozy corner for the child to look at a book & take a break, usually a minute per each year if age (2 min for a 2 year old, so to speak).

Add to this the fact that the children were publicly shamed by these pictures being posted on SM.

I’m not diagnosing SW by pictures & videos alone, but there are many things (this, the Xmas video with her becoming angry with Bella for not enjoying the experience & repeatedly calling her names, the video where she allowed CeCe to put herself in danger climbing to “learn her lesson,” etc) that raise red flags for me knowing what ultimately happened to these children.

Maybe she didn't know that. Did she claim to be a perfect parent? Does her choice of discipline somehow lead to motive?
MOO