Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #30

[JudgeJudi]

I hope you're not suggesting that CW only visited this site at a minimum of once a year? He visited this site daily. They are possibly cleaned yearly, but checked daily.

No, not at all. There's a lot more work that pumpers do.

Oilfield Jobs: The Job of Oilfield Pumper or Gauger

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Yes, reportedly he first stated the emotional conversation was at five, then after speaking with his dad he changed it to 4:00. Makes me think he doesn't quite understand how long such a conversation would last. Jmo

Exactly MsBetsy! I also think 4 am doesn't allow for an emotional conversation and the rest that followed. smh

 

[Johnny1181]

CW said he saw SW "actively strangling" CeCe. iow, seeing that provoked him into a rage. JMO

Rather than a horror, grief, and panic a father would feel to save his dying babies. jmo

 

[idfinch]

What so you think his plan would have been if there was not the delay?

I'm not nwmouse but I agree that the delay probably freaked him out too. IMO if the girls were already dead beforehand, or if he was waiting until she got home to have an "emotional conversation" resulting in death, her late arrival cut his timing very close either way. Late evening gives him far more time to clean up, gather her stuff, dispose of all of the bodies, potentially do something with her car.

Then, he had to act hastily without a plan but might have figured he'd have time at the other end of the work day. But that wee hours delay combined with NUA sounding the alarm by noon or so gave him a fraction of the time he probably thought he would have had to set the scene for her leaving him and punishing him by taking his daughters. He could have intended to pack up the girls' belongings and suitcases and a few more of Shanann's things and ditch those to make it look better.

I don't know if he considered the neighbor's security cam at all, or if he even thought the footage would still be there by the time he planned to eventually sound an alarm that she was missing.

2 points, if someone would help me clarify with the facts as we know them please as I have the memory of swiss cheese?

Didn't he mention somewhere that there was a blind spot somewhere off the garage where their home security didn't record? Did someone? Am I imagining this? If so, that could have factored into his original thoughts about clearing out the house before the timing changed on both ends.

Also, was it Chris that stated he texted and called her repeatedly? Her phone would have been ringing or buzzing or had unchecked notifications if it was still in the couch when retrieved. Did he turn her phone over to LE or did they find it there and retrieve it directly? Did he ever turn over his phone or show them I wonder, or did he refuse and did they have to wait for records? I know LE would get a warrant gather them all either way. I'm wondering if the evidence on his phone and/or hers contradicts what he said even further, and if he tried to wipe anything off of either one.

All of this is JMO & my own speculation or musing out loud. Thanks!

 

[Marli61]

No, not at all. There's a lot more work that pumpers do.

Oilfield Jobs: The Job of Oilfield Pumper or Gauger

Yes, I am quite familiar. My husband is a former pumper & presently a plant operator. My nephew is currently a pumper.

 

[cailleach]

It says the most are done in rage. He did say he had rage.

It there is any truth to rage, what might his rage be?

I'd like @stereopticons and any other professionals, maybe @NotAtAll, to talk to us about ADP because my understanding is hostility and deep seated anger are among the markers. I personally think we fall off the rails in looking at what she did that might have made him do these horrible things because ultimately most of our behavior speaks about us and not necessarily the people we act upon. JMO.

 

[MsBetsy]

CW said he saw SW "actively strangling" CeCe. iow, seeing that provoked him into a rage. JMO

That's his story, but what else may be the reason he went into a rage?

 

[Allabouttrial]

can you imagine him driving smugly up to the tanks knowing their bones are eventually loose, their skulls filled with crude oil, laughing at once were those happy precious little girls floating year after year in the darkness of thick crude. So he can be free to screw around. Jmo

No I really can't imagine that he was laughing.

 

[pocketaccent]

Yes, true. Bella was simply "blue" on the monitor in his story. I tend to think that a unique COD for her would totally blow his story out of the water. If she wasn't strangled, why? If one believes his "Shanann did it" story line, it would be strange to think she snapped and within the few minutes where he wandered off, she chose two completely different methods to kill the girls. I guess I just think that he gave us a nugget of truth in his lie and all of them were strangled, by him. My opinion, obviously.

Not disagreeing. But another possibility is that he HAD TO confess that way because he used two different methods. Because that was the truth and he knew COD would be different for the girls.

 

[The Saint]

CW's Instagram was called:
Chris Runs & Thrives
@chris_thrives

Shanann's Instagram is here:
Thrive Healthy Fit Mom (@shanannwatts) • Instagram photos and videos

 

[NuttMegg]

CW said he saw SW "actively strangling" CeCe. iow, seeing that provoked him into a rage. JMO

actively being strangled
means she wasn't dead until he waited to make sure she was, by not calling 911. Imo

 

[JudgeJudi]

Yes, I am quite familiar. My husband is a former pumper & presently a plant operator. My nephew is currently a pumper.

I spend a lot of time researching things I know nothing about. That's not to say I don't make mistakes, but I do like to have a good idea before I post this sort of thing.

 

[Marli61]

Chilling. Means he would essentially be visiting them from time to time. Basically snickering at his whole family year after year. How can a person be so stone cold.

It's unreal to think (if he had gotten away with this) of him out there gauging the very tanks that held the bodies of his babies. Surely to goodness he would have quit Anadarko & moved somewhere far far away with one of his APs. Sick sick sick. I will never understand.

 

[Johnny1181]

That's his story, but what else may be the reason he went into a rage?

Or a reason he would move to rage rather than attempting to save Bella and CeCe and calling 911? Rage overtook that even though in those few minutes (seconds??) it would have taken to run from bedroom to bedroom and that if CeCe was "actively being strangled" she may have been saved? Rage not saving was the emotion? MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

I'd like @stereopticons and any other professionals, maybe @NotAtAll, to talk to us about ADP because my understanding is hostility and deep seated anger are among the markers. I personally think we fall off the rails in looking at what she did that might have made him do these horrible things because ultimately most of our behavior speaks about us and not necessarily the people we act upon. JMO.

He may have anger and hostility that's been kept inside all his life. It will be interesting to see if he has any psychological evaluations, and to find out about his family history. Personality Disorders are formed in childhood. <modsnip: sleuthing family not allowed>

 

[borndem]

Then you would be either not chosen, if you were honest about your inability to follow the law and the jury instructions, or kicked off the jury if you eventually admitted such an inability.

Because the law states that neither form of evidence is inherently more reliable than the other:

"A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other."

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf

Essentially what you're saying is you could not convict someone without a video of the murder or an eye witness. Because that's pretty much it for direct evidence.

EVERYTHING else is circumstantial - DNA, fingerprints, etc.

Jurors who are unwilling to follow the law I think are responsible for some very terrible outcomes in various cases, in this country.

Yes, indeed.
I've heard a some folks downplay circumstantial evidence more than once since I've been here on WS. Some say that they think it is weak. They want "direct evidence." If we stop to think about or count how many times we have seen direct evidence in these trials we watch, we come up very short indeed with our direct evidence numbers. The defendants rarely testify. Eyewitnesses are very, very scarce. Obviously, murder victims cannot testify on the witness stand, but their blood, other fluids, and bodies surely can. Weapons testify as well, as do fingerprints, footprints, iphones/tower pings, automobile odometers, DNA, autopsy reports/toxicology/ME testimony, security cameras, receipts, SM, and so much more. And many defense attorneys and prosecutors will agree that eyewitness testimony is often the weakest and least dependable evidence of all.
We should never underestimate the value of circumstantial evidence.

 

[MsBetsy]

Or a reason he would move to rage rather than attempting to save Bella and CeCe and calling 911? Rage overtook that even though in those few minutes (seconds??) from bedroom to bedroom and that if CeCe was "actively being strangled" she may have been saved? MOO

I don't believe he went into a rage at all. He may have had a lot of anger and turmoil inside, but his actions were too controlled and determined to be a crime of passion. Jmo

 

[Jennifer17]

CW said he saw SW "actively strangling" CeCe. iow, seeing that provoked him into a rage. JMO

Yes, and saw Bella blue on the bed (people do not turn full face blue when they are strangled) and actively strangling Cece (all in the moment he stepped outside the room) and so he runs in and does not try to give them aid or call for help? He instead takes up minutes to strangle his wife, snuffing out her and his unborn son's lives.
That beggars belief.

 

[The Saint]

I hope you're not suggesting that CW only visited this site at a minimum of once a year? He visited this site daily. They are possibly cleaned yearly, but checked daily.

*Edited to add... yes it may have been a very long time if ever, they would have found the girls' bones in the tanks when they were cleaned. However, depending on how "shallow" SW was buried, animals may have dug the body up & it would have been visible to the person who checks that site on CW's days off.

i think that is what happened to the bed sheet found near SW's grave. I think an animal dug it up and carted it away.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

It will be more than fascinating to see how the defence defend the indefensible.

I'm dreading it JJ.
Will CW reenact his movements with a stand in and props, what position SW was in and where she stood strangling her child when he came upon them, or will diagrams be used on a whiteboard? I think the first is more favourable so the court can see his scenario played out for full effect. It will be very unsettling for SW's family but if CW wants to be believed, seeing is believing. imo