Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #33

[idfinch]

And I totally appreciate that, except I don't think I've seen people say she was always away without him. I do know from her SM that she went on a few trips without him, 2 to Dallas, 1 to AZ and I think there were a couple more.

Were children allowed on these getaways or was it just for adults?

That I don't know. I've tried to stay far from the MLM sleuthing and the videos except for what has been posted and discussed here. I don't know much about Thrive or the trips.

 

[Johnny1181]

I do believe a lot of her posts were exaggerated in order to sell her products, which in fairness makes sense. So I don't believe it paints a true picture of her everyday life. IMO

But maybe it does paint a true picture of her life as Shanann was living it.

Why is it so hard to believe her?

Maybe it does not paint a picture of the everyday life her cheating husband who confessed to murdering her their unborn son Nico.

I believe her. jmo.

 

[Allabouttrial]

No doubt that it did. But, you can still power through quite a bit. I have severe sciatic nerve pain this pregnancy and I still get everything done (and cry once I can sit) because I have to do it and I can't let the pain interfere.

That's just the reality of responsibilities.

Sorry to hear that, it can be very painful and I've only had it a couple of times.

 

[PommyMommy]

AB 9/27/18
1. Revolting new details. Bodies were not discovered or recovered easily. Took close to 8 hours to get children out of oil tanks. Had to drain up to 700 barrels of oil. Guests, Professor Wesley Williams and Joe Scott Morgan, explain how children were put in and removed from tanks. Took a great deal of effort and technical knowledge to do this. Can’t see how C.W. pulled it off without thinking about it ahead of time. Because LE was trying to preserve forensic evidence they probably brought in a vacuum truck, works like a wet dry shop vac. Insert hose and drain. Have to empty oil before entering and opening hatch on side. Standard API12F tank design. There are Thief Hatches on tops of tanks, 8” in diameter, (very small) you can open and close them. Bottom of tank square opening is called Clean Out Manway, 2’ by 3’ rectangular port. Takes 64 bolts to open, but tank must be empty to open, or you leak oil all over the place. Thief hatches (8” wide) are designed to take a measurement of tank level. Children were found in tanks that were nearly full. At best that tanks were producing about 200 barrels per month. CW probably shifted oil from one tank to another in order to get girls in them. Requires knowledge and time to do it. If tanks were nearly full, estimating 500 gallons, it would take 3 months at 200 gallons per month to completely fill them up. Bodies wouldn’t have been discovered for at least 3 months. There is a pump that goes between the two tanks, CW could pump 1 tank into the other tank, and open the Clean Out Manway. No way could children fit in the Thief Hatch. CW left house at 5:30, it would take an hour each to empty each tank. (Using the pump between, not the vacuum truck.) Removing 128 bolts takes a lot of time. Because CW didn’t have enough time to do all this work, CW would have had to shoved them through the 8” Thief Hatches. Bodies had to have been manipulated (twisted and contorted) postmortem, in order to fit them through the 8” Thief Hatches. Rather gruesome task. When Jessica McClure fell into an oil well in 1987, that well was 8” wide, but Jessica McClure was 18 months old.
2. Guest, Police Officer, Sean Sticks Larkin explains that this situation is far from normal. Officers most important job is to contain the scene and to recover the evidence. If there’s no danger of evidence being contaminated, they call professionals for advice.
3. Guest, Wesley Williams, explains oil is fluid, flows quickly. Oil is not very difficult to remove from skin.
4. Yesterday, both SW’s mother and father were at SW’s house removing the belongings. SW’s brother and SW’s friend, Lauren Arnold, was there, too. This move was about removing memories. Children’s clothes and toys will be donated to local churches. Family heirloom pieces from SW’s side of family will be kept by family.
5. Social media has been ruthless and cruel to family and family is aware. Statement from family spokesperson. (See photo)
6. Guest Steve Helling from People Magazine agreed that people have been awful on Facebook.
7. Family stayed in a hotel, and besides removing articles from SW’s home, they attended a private memorial for SW at the Carbon Valley Rec Center. Watts family originally had family passes to rec center but they expired in March. SW’s mom, Sandy also visited with the District Attorney today. Family is part of the investigation.
8. New documents today. CW must turn over DNA and prints to DA.
9. Other evidence found at site according to Helling. Bag was marked Evidence #26, that means 25 pieces of evidence came before it. Most we don’t know about.
10. Autopsies will remain private for now. When they are completed they will be handed over to Defense, and Court will make decision to make them public.
11. Guest, Defense Attorney, David Beller, explained Defense Attorneys are doing own investigation with information that is available to them now.
12. SW’s Mom’s meetings with Prosecutor is fulfilling Colorado State Law. Prosecutors must keep family up to date on all aspects of case, every step. In the end, Prosecutors will likely ask SW’s family what they want to see happen. Do they want a trial, do they not want a trial?
Viewer Question
1. Will attorneys ever offer a plea deal where C.W. will be required to tell full, honest truth of his motive and exactly what really happened, and in return they would take the death penalty off the table? It happens. Plea discussions happen all the time. Conversations start early. Yes, they could make such a bargain, but it doesn’t happen often. Since Defense doesn’t have any discovery, they don’t know what they’re up against, so they’re not talking plea, yet.
2. When do you believe we will see autopsy results, forensics, and an actual trial on Chris Watts? Beller said, It’s going to be a long time, at least a year. AB agreed, and added if it’s going to be a Death Penalty case, 3 years. Elizabeth Smart case took 10 years to bring justice.
3. Do you think the family has come back to be told some things in person before autopsy is made public? The DA may want to spare family shocking details before public? Prosecutors do work with family, they do tell them things before public. Guest, Sea Sticks Larkin explained, DA offices have Victim Witness Centers. Advocates deal directly with family. A case of the magnitude will offer family support, so family is not blindsided in public. Sometimes these situations are hard on LE, there are counselors to help LE, as well.

Ugh. Bless their hearts.

Thank you, @Layla123.

 

[Hazelnutty]

The man literally dumped his children into oil tanks after doing whatever he needed to do to them post-mortem to get them to fit through 8 inch openings. Childcare and custody arrangements were NEVER on his mind, IMO.

CW is a vile, evil waste of a man.

 

[Deleted member 230544]

I thought it was decided that images and videos don't always paint an accurate picture of real life though?

Well said @Allabouttrial. That was the overall viewpoint being posted.

 

[nwmouse]

AB 9/27/18
1. Revolting new details. Bodies were not discovered or recovered easily. Took close to 8 hours to get children out of oil tanks. Had to drain up to 700 barrels of oil. Guests, Professor Wesley Williams and Joe Scott Morgan, explain how children were put in and removed from tanks. Took a great deal of effort and technical knowledge to do this. Can’t see how C.W. pulled it off without thinking about it ahead of time. Because LE was trying to preserve forensic evidence they probably brought in a vacuum truck, works like a wet dry shop vac. Insert hose and drain. Have to empty oil before entering and opening hatch on side. Standard API12F tank design. There are Thief Hatches on tops of tanks, 8” in diameter, (very small) you can open and close them. Bottom of tank square opening is called Clean Out Manway, 2’ by 3’ rectangular port. Takes 64 bolts to open, but tank must be empty to open, or you leak oil all over the place. Thief hatches (8” wide) are designed to take a measurement of tank level. Children were found in tanks that were nearly full. At best that tanks were producing about 200 barrels per month. CW probably shifted oil from one tank to another in order to get girls in them. Requires knowledge and time to do it. If tanks were nearly full, estimating 500 gallons, it would take 3 months at 200 gallons per month to completely fill them up. Bodies wouldn’t have been discovered for at least 3 months. There is a pump that goes between the two tanks, CW could pump 1 tank into the other tank, and open the Clean Out Manway. No way could children fit in the Thief Hatch. CW left house at 5:30, it would take an hour each to empty each tank. (Using the pump between, not the vacuum truck.) Removing 128 bolts takes a lot of time. Because CW didn’t have enough time to do all this work, CW would have had to shoved them through the 8” Thief Hatches. Bodies had to have been manipulated (twisted and contorted) postmortem, in order to fit them through the 8” Thief Hatches. Rather gruesome task. When Jessica McClure fell into an oil well in 1987, that well was 8” wide, but Jessica McClure was 18 months old.
2. Guest, Police Officer, Sean Sticks Larkin explains that this situation is far from normal. Officers most important job is to contain the scene and to recover the evidence. If there’s no danger of evidence being contaminated, they call professionals for advice.
3. Guest, Wesley Williams, explains oil is fluid, flows quickly. Oil is not very difficult to remove from skin.
4. Yesterday, both SW’s mother and father were at SW’s house removing the belongings. SW’s brother and SW’s friend, Lauren Arnold, was there, too. This move was about removing memories. Children’s clothes and toys will be donated to local churches. Family heirloom pieces from SW’s side of family will be kept by family.
5. Social media has been ruthless and cruel to family and family is aware. Statement from family spokesperson. (See photo)
6. Guest Steve Helling from People Magazine agreed that people have been awful on Facebook.
7. Family stayed in a hotel, and besides removing articles from SW’s home, they attended a private memorial for SW at the Carbon Valley Rec Center. Watts family originally had family passes to rec center but they expired in March. SW’s mom, Sandy also visited with the District Attorney today. Family is part of the investigation.
8. New documents today. CW must turn over DNA and prints to DA.
9. Other evidence found at site according to Helling. Bag was marked Evidence #26, that means 25 pieces of evidence came before it. Most we don’t know about.
10. Autopsies will remain private for now. When they are completed they will be handed over to Defense, and Court will make decision to make them public.
11. Guest, Defense Attorney, David Beller, explained Defense Attorneys are doing own investigation with information that is available to them now.
12. SW’s Mom’s meetings with Prosecutor is fulfilling Colorado State Law. Prosecutors must keep family up to date on all aspects of case, every step. In the end, Prosecutors will likely ask SW’s family what they want to see happen. Do they want a trial, do they not want a trial?
Viewer Question
1. Will attorneys ever offer a plea deal where C.W. will be required to tell full, honest truth of his motive and exactly what really happened, and in return they would take the death penalty off the table? It happens. Plea discussions happen all the time. Conversations start early. Yes, they could make such a bargain, but it doesn’t happen often. Since Defense doesn’t have any discovery, they don’t know what they’re up against, so they’re not talking plea, yet.
2. When do you believe we will see autopsy results, forensics, and an actual trial on Chris Watts? Beller said, It’s going to be a long time, at least a year. AB agreed, and added if it’s going to be a Death Penalty case, 3 years. Elizabeth Smart case took 10 years to bring justice.
3. Do you think the family has come back to be told some things in person before autopsy is made public? The DA may want to spare family shocking details before public? Prosecutors do work with family, they do tell them things before public. Guest, Sea Sticks Larkin explained, DA offices have Victim Witness Centers. Advocates deal directly with family. A case of the magnitude will offer family support, so family is not blindsided in public. Sometimes these situations are hard on LE, there are counselors to help LE, as well.

BBM.
Question for one of our attorneys or anyone else who can answer:
Does this indicate pre-meditation so CW cannot claim it was a crime of passion/he snapped??

 

[Johnny1181]

Well he was definitely on those trips.

Guess the SM only counts when Shannan is the one being judged. He sure did seem to enjoy those vacations she earned for him. jmo

 

[maeleemae]

“I do feel that maybe it had become like an addiction for her. This was also her 5th or 6th approx. time with an MLM company.”

@Allabouttrial I think she got a lot of validation from it. In her videos she speaks often of how she didn’t use to have confidence or feel good about herself. I think she still had some of those feelings but I think her “Thrive family” helped her feel better. Naturally, understandably, if it improved her feelings of self worth, she’d want that to continue. Did she actually earn more money than she invested in it? We don’t know. But that could be a huge factor. My impression of her by watchimg her videos has improved. I still think she said unkind, negative things to and about CW in her public videos. I still have questions about the way she raised her children but I found myself feeling a bit sorry for her. I think she was OCD, I think she was a perfectionist and I think she expected too much of herself and others. She seemed happy on the surface but I believe those feelings of inadequacy still ruled her.

 

[cailleach]

SAN DIEGO https://www.facebook.com/ShanannWatts/media_set?set=a.10155509737956935&type=3
View attachment 148918
LAS VEGAS https://www.facebook.com/ShanannWatts/media_set?set=a.10155208265976935&type=3
View attachment 148921
PUERTO VALLARTA https://www.facebook.com/ShanannWatts/media_set?set=a.10154927736231935&type=3
View attachment 148922
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC https://www.facebook.com/ShanannWatts/media_set?set=a.10154257194526935&type=3
View attachment 148923
NEW ORLEANS
https://www.facebook.com/ShanannWatts/media_set?set=a.10153924273316935&type=3
View attachment 148924

Yeah, doesn't look like he's complaining to me.
MOO

I'd place money that he never went to those places before he was with her. It looked like he was living large and loving it.

 

[gitana1]

Shekkiec said: ↑
@Jennifer17 on thread 25 page 62 as I stated CW regularly did household chores as per our VI @Trinket78 who knew both SW and CW




I respect that a VI may have special inside knowledge about a case and/or the individuals involved in the case because they have known the family prior to the incident and they have first hand personal experiences and insight about the family ~ this is extremely valuable information for the forum.

True. But the way we determine the weight of that value is by generally who such people are. And context.

For example, do they have reason to be biased or none at all? Were they friends of both parents from the beginning? Were they involved in their lives and socialized with the couple on a regular basis in Colorado where they lived the last few years before this event? Did they see them a lot in their day to day lives? Watch them socialize frequently? Listen to each of their confidences or to just one?

The other insiders on the thread have discussed the context of their relationships - where, how long, how often, what.

And please. I am not expecting anyone to give us info they aren't comfortable giving. But I can't judge the merit of their statements to the determination of guilt or innocence, without it.

For me, however, the value is in getting taste of what the defense is going to pull out of its hat at trial.

And I'm glad. In fact I love it. Because I'm sure the state is taking note. They won't be ambushed at trial like in the casey Anthony case.

They will be well prepared to refute every sordid insinuation about the murder victim.

 

[Allabouttrial]

But maybe it does paint a true picture of her life as Shanann was living it.

Why is it so hard to believe her?

Maybe it does not paint a picture of the everyday life her cheating husband who confessed to murdering her their unborn son Nico.

I believe her. jmo.

Ah I understand your point, except I think SW may have been in deep denial about her failing marriage and being "super excited" was maybe a front she was putting on in the hopes everything would be ok. I do think when reality hit it would have knocked her way off balance. MOO

 

[bonjoviblonde]

Which I would concede to but I don't understand how it can be then used to prove a point by the same people who dismissed the said images and videos as being a true representation.

I don't think anyone meant to analyze the videos, just to show he was physically with her on those trips.

 

[PommyMommy]

Which I would concede to but I don't understand how it can be then used to prove a point by the same people who dismissed the said images and videos as being a true representation.

I think what was dismissed were posts suggesting she was depressed, she had OCD or some other mental disorder based on videos which showed absolutely nothing of the sort. IIRC
MOO

 

[Deleted member 230544]

Which I would concede to but I don't understand how it can be then used to prove a point by the same people who dismissed the said images and videos as being a true representation.

Agreed @Allabouttrial ~ and therein lies the rub.

 

[Allabouttrial]

“I do feel that maybe it had become like an addiction for her. This was also her 5th or 6th approx. time with an MLM company.”

@Allabouttrial I think she got a lot of validation from it. In her videos she speaks often of how she didn’t use to have confidence or feel good about herself. I think she still had some of those feelings but I think her “Thrive family” helped her feel better. Naturally, understandably, if it improved her feelings of self worth, she’d want that to continue. Did she actually earn more money than she invested in it? We don’t know. But that could be a huge factor. My impression of her by watchimg her videos has improved. I still think she said unkind, negative things to and about CW in her public videos. I still have questions about the way she raised her children but I found myself feeling a bit sorry for her. I think she was OCD, I think she was a perfectionist and I think she expected too much of herself and others. She seemed happy on the surface but I believe those feelings of inadequacy still ruled her.

I agree. I do believe she may have had low self esteem and yes like you say MLM would probably have given her a huge confidence boost, and let's be honest we all could do with that once in a while IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes. She did not paint a pretty picture of Shanann. It is up to us to determine this person’s credibility for ourselves, as everyone has their biases, depending on who they are closer too.

I don't know how anyone can possibly come to a conclusion that a person is faking illness without being in the Drs office during visits or knowing what all prescriptions are for and when they were prescribed. If I remember correctly there were prescription bottles found. How would anyone know the dates on those bottles? Anyone stating that she was faking illnesses must be basing it on speculation alone. Jmo

 

[maeleemae]

“It does happen. Some people do take their MLM stuff overboard. How would that factor into the murders, though? If we're going to analyze videos and pictures, CW looks pretty happy on all those Thrive trips...”

@mtnlites I’m sure he did enjoy the trips. I’m thinking that maybe, just maybe SW was investing more money than she was making or possibly the first year she may have which could cause more financial strife. And the second thing I’m thinking is it was taking over her life. JMO

 

[maeleemae]

I agree. I do believe she may have had low self esteem and yes like you say MLM would probably have given her a huge confidence boost, and let's be honest we all could do with that once in a while IMO

Oh yes! I agree. That’s why I said it was understandable!

 

[Johnny1181]

“I do feel that maybe it had become like an addiction for her. This was also her 5th or 6th approx. time with an MLM company.”

@Allabouttrial I think she got a lot of validation from it. In her videos she speaks often of how she didn’t use to have confidence or feel good about herself. I think she still had some of those feelings but I think her “Thrive family” helped her feel better. Naturally, understandably, if it improved her feelings of self worth, she’d want that to continue. Did she actually earn more money than she invested in it? We don’t know. But that could be a huge factor. My impression of her by watchimg her videos has improved. I still think she said unkind, negative things to and about CW in her public videos. I still have questions about the way she raised her children but I found myself feeling a bit sorry for her. I think she was OCD, I think she was a perfectionist and I think she expected too much of herself and others. She seemed happy on the surface but I believe those feelings of inadequacy still ruled her.

Do you have inside information or qualifications to support these diagnosis/opinions of Shanann gleaned from her loving SM posts about her family and business? Serious question. Not being snarky.

What are your thoughts of the vacationing cheating husband and father, thanks to his wife's success, standing their porch preening and smiling showing off his shirt for the cameras?

Who knew he had recently dumped his baby girls in separate oil tanks and covered his wife and unborn son in dirt.

Jmo

 

[PommyMommy]

In the last thread I saw a question about why people are calling the oil in the tanks "crude oil" and someone asked if it was just to make it sound more sinister. In my day job I actually specialize in commodities fraud, including trading in crude oil.

Crude oil is the name for unrefined petroleum products. It's called "crude oil" because it's the original fossil fuel which is refined into gasoline, diesel, and petrochemicals. So the distinction is unrefined crude oil versus refined petroleum products. It is the standard name for the product in the oil and gas industry.

Thanks, Alethea. I learned something new. They've also been calling it "crude oil" in most news articles. The thread was about to close and I was hurrying to reply to that post, so I was only able to link two articles.
MOO