Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #35

[gitana1]

I see you are new. Not to do with this situation, but on the net we see many adorable pictures of loved children such as Caylee Anthony.

Just an example of cases you may look at in the future

<modsnip off topic>

True. Photos don't tell the whole story. We've seen social media showing smiling families when later we find the child was brutally abused to death.

But I have yet to see photos of any such child in the tender embraces CW photographed of SW and her babies, over and over again.

Nor have I seen videos of an abuser interacting as tenderly and with such devoted pride and maternal love as I have seen in videos of Shanann with her babies:

Shanann Watts

 

[gitana1]

Oh, wow, than that is way too late, I would think. It can't be about the deadline for turning five. Anyway, the VI' s answer is rather mysterious... leaves it open to much speculation. But if she was turning five in December, that's a little early to start kindergarten. Maybe full time Pre- k? I think I read she had been going part time. It would seem to be a mystery. To bad we don't have more info. Just adding to say I don't know how to copy the post, but it was just posted above, a few messages ago.

Transitional kindergarten? We have that here. Do they have that in CO?

 

[Fuelflea]

Or him and Dieter had an emotional discussion.

IMO, I think that he was really tired from killing little people, and a tiny pregnant wife. I'll bet he slept like the dead.

 

[gitana1]

Sorry for back tracking, I was trying to catch up and missed being able to post in previous thread.....

From the article(s) posted regarding autopsy reports: "The custodian of the records has the burden to prove an extraordinary situation and that the information revealed would do substantial injury to the public" (snipped by me for focus).

I am hoping one of our attorneys can answer: Why did the Coroner's office not request the reports to be sealed to protect potential witnesses and jury pool if they are custodian of the records (as indicated in article regarding prior case)? At what point does the Prosecution become the custodian of the reports (if they do), and have the ability to urge the court to keep such information confidential?

I (personally) have no problem with the reports remaining sealed when complete. Was just curious as to why it was requested by the Prosecution and not Coroner's office.
El Paso County coroner seeks to hide Flick and Zetina's autopsy reports

The cornoner should indeed be the custodian of the report. But that doesn't mean the prosecution or defense can't also petition to have it sealed: 2016 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 24 - :: Government - State :: Public (Open) Records :: Article 72 - Public Records :: Part 2 - :: Inspection, Copying, or Photographing :: § 24-72-204. Allowance or denial of inspection - grounds - procedure - appeal - definitions

 

[MsBetsy]

Transitional kindergarten? We have that here. Do they have that in CO?

I'm not sure. Where I live, we have pre- k, which is not the same as preschool but is similar to what kindergarten used to be many years ago. I don't have all the details about the school situation but I would like to know myself.

 

[gitana1]

Sorry to go back to this morbid subject, but has it been determined that the two tanks the girls were found in, had only an 8” diameter man hole?

That's my question. Or that there was no other way to get them in or no way to make the hole larger?

I guess we must wait.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

But that scenario is what makes no sense to me. If I see someone strangling my toddler, I am not going to try and strangle an adult to make them stop. That takes TOO LONG and is too unpredictable.

I am going to smash them in the head with a frying pan, bat, heavy object. Or stab them with kitchen knife...something quick and powerful. MY first concern is getting the strangled child air in their lungs at that point. So you knock out the attacker and tend to the child.

That's the problem with his scenario. JMO MOO IMO

The problem is what you think you would do and what you actually do in an event like this might be completely different.
jmo

 

[Charlot123]

My previous post, on whether or not it would matter for trial, what county CW gets, could be a game changer, if he is given the "Death Penalty" prize. In that case, he would be better off with Boulder or Denver counties. The more liberal areas the better in that case.

Who decides on the death penalty in CO? The jury or the judge? (And never mind, they have not executed anyone in the last five years. So, I don't think death penalty is in the cards).

And the decision will be only about the girls whose bodies he hid since he admitted to killing SW.

For anyone with logic, liberal or conservative, the facts point in one direction. I am definitely not a conservative, yet I have a very definite opinion about CW's guilt. I have many questions about the marriage and the decisions both of them made in the marriage, but in the crime, SW comes across as a totally innocent, trusting victim. It will take horrible prosecution to drop the ball in this case.

 

[Charlot123]

Having not met her before either, I sense SW had an ambitious approach to life, IMO, based on her commitment to her family, friends, work, and positive approach to life. I'm reminded of a great post by @borndem from the previous thread, with this chilling visualization about what may have been going on in SW's mind that night (bbm):


SW would have fought hard, IMO, but that's if she even got the chance. I'm sure they had their bad days, but sadly, I don't think SW could have ever imagined for one second that her husband would be capable of murder.

And that thought alone might very well have paralyzed her when she realized what was happening, IMO. Jmo

She might have died never knowing that the kids were dead, or about to die.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Nancy Grace story said CW was surprised once he heard that this story has gained non stop massive media and he feels the public is blaming him.

Is he kidding? Did he only think the Denver gazette would only cover this locally after he decided to lie to the media and then confess while still blaming his wife?

 

[katydid23]

The problem is what you think you would do and what you actually do in an event like this might be completely different.
jmo

Sure, we can always say that. But at the same time, I don't just 'think' that I would try and save my baby, I know I would. It would be my highest priority. Above the urge to kill my spouse would be my urge to save my dying child. I don't see any way that would change in real life circumstances.

 

[MsBetsy]

The problem is what you think you would do and what you actually do in an event like this might be completely different.
jmo

True but I can't see how any parent would not just automatically come to the child's rescue immediately, without having to think at all. It's more like an automatic response. Imo

 

[gitana1]

I’m not surprised - columbine reports were also withheld, I believe- due to the effect on the family. I don’t think there was any concern raised regarding the potential jurors...? So I’m still looking for a case like this one.

I’m also not sure why an autopsy report (that doesnt include a reference to the “who”) would be any more likely to corrupt potential jurors - as opposed to say, an evidence list or a search warrant or an eyewitness statement. Seems like the same standard should apply.

Here ya' go:

Loveland infant's autopsy report released

In that case, the father of a dead infant was arrested in December 2017. The autopsy report wasn't ready until April 2018. But it was sealed and not released until after he pled guilty in June 2018:

"Though the infant's autopsy report has been sealed as part of the investigation and court proceedings, the Larimer County Coroner's Office confirmed Monday that the infant's name was Adrian Dominguez."
Loveland infant's autopsy report released

What special circumstance was given in that case that the legislature had no way of anticipating when they drafted the legislation regarding release of public records?

It appears that a major reason for continuing to seal an autopsy report is if the overall homicide/death investigation remains ongoing. Then it is determined to be in the public interest to keep such records sealed.

Although the defendant has been charged, the state has said the investigation in this case remains ongoing.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Who decides on the death penalty in CO? The jury or the judge? (And never mind, they have not executed anyone in the last five years. So, I don't think death penalty is in the cards).

And the decision will be only about the girls whose bodies he hid since he admitted to killing SW.

For anyone with logic, liberal or conservative, the facts point in one direction. I am definitely not a conservative, yet I have a very definite opinion about CW's guilt. I have many questions about the marriage and the decisions both of them made in the marriage, but in the crime, SW comes across as a totally innocent, trusting victim. It will take horrible prosecution to drop the ball in this case.

Well unlike Casey Anthony. He already confessed to 5 major felonies or so.

So even if the jury is undecided on the girls murders. The jury have no choice but to find him guilty on what he already confessed to.

Then the judge just needs to run each sentence consecutively. Jmo

 

[molly1255]

I value everyone's opinion, as long as I feel it's sincere. I don't block anyone and I try to read all posts. I've formed my opinion based on the facts and evidence available and what logic tells me, and my opinion is; CW killed his whole family. It was premedited, and maybe better planned than we know, but the late flight and NUA. and her tenacity, changed things and threw CW off balance! I also believe it may have been more horrific then we know and this will slowly come out, as it seems to be doing now.

I agree with you, I think he killed his entire family and that he planned it in advance.

The affidavit states when CW went upstairs to the master bedroom, and on the baby monitor he observed Bella sprawled out on her bed and blue and SW was actively strangling Celeste.

What's not clear is whether CW is saying he "viewed" SW actively strangling CeCe in Bella's bedroom or in CeCe's bedroom. In previous cases I've followed, there tends to be little snippets of truth thrown into the stories that are told because they either know or they fear LE will find evidence and they need to fit that evidence into their story. My thoughts are that SW was murdered in the bedroom he claimed he viewed SW actively strangling CeCe. JMO.

The affidavit also states "he went into a rage and ultimately strangled Shanann to death". To me, the "ultimately" word indicates something happened before he strangled SW to death. JMO.

I can't help but wonder if he may have been attempting to explain another injury or even other injuries that might be found on SW's body that were incurred before she was strangled to death. JMO, I didn't see signs of injury to CW when he gave his media interviews and I do believe SW would have put up a terrific fight had she been able to fight. JMO.

There's a lot of information we don't have, but based on what we already know, it's beyond horrific and I do think it's likely to get even worse as more information becomes available. IMO.

 

[Amandaaa]

Here ya' go:

Loveland infant's autopsy report released

In that case, the father of a dead infant was arrested in December 2017. The autopsy report wasn't ready until April 2018. But it was sealed and not released until after he pled guilty in June 2018:

"Though the infant's autopsy report has been sealed as part of the investigation and court proceedings, the Larimer County Coroner's Office confirmed Monday that the infant's name was Adrian Dominguez."
Loveland infant's autopsy report released

What special circumstance was given in that case that the legislature had no way of anticipating when they drafted the legislation regarding release of public records?

It appears that a major reason for continuing to seal an autopsy report is if the overall homicide/death investigation remains ongoing. Then it is determined to be in the public interest to keep such records sealed.

Although the defendant has been charged, the state has said the investigation in this case remains ongoing.

Exactly -

Here ya' go:

Loveland infant's autopsy report released

In that case, the father of a dead infant was arrested in December 2017. The autopsy report wasn't ready until April 2018. But it was sealed and not released until after he pled guilty in June 2018:

"Though the infant's autopsy report has been sealed as part of the investigation and court proceedings, the Larimer County Coroner's Office confirmed Monday that the infant's name was Adrian Dominguez."
Loveland infant's autopsy report released

What special circumstance was given in that case that the legislature had no way of anticipating when they drafted the legislation regarding release of public records?

It appears that a major reason for continuing to seal an autopsy report is if the overall homicide/death investigation remains ongoing. Then it is determined to be in the public interest to keep such records sealed.

Although the defendant has been charged, the state has said the investigation in this case remains ongoing.

Exactly. That fits with the only successful arguments I’ve seen for sealing the report (either due to the investigation/charges/arrest or due to extreme distress to the family) - haven’t found anything where they’ve gotten it sealed on an argument that it would corrupt the jury...

 

[gitana1]

The problem is what you think you would do and what you actually do in an event like this might be completely different.
jmo

Well let's put it this way: Sure, there are certain scenarios in which we can't totally predict what our response will be (sorry for the grammar there), but then there's human instinct.

If fire touches my skin, I'm going to jerk it away. I don't have to wonder how I will react. I don't have to ponder the possibility that I might quietly leave my skin in the proximity of the unbearable heat. Why? Because it is human instinct to jerk your hand away from fire.

It is also undoubtedly human instinct for a parent who is bonded and loves his or her children to react instinctively to rescue that child.

There is no need for any of us to imagine what we would do. We know. We know what any loving and bonded parent would do. And that would be based on the deep, primal instinct of preserving one's children's lives.

IMO.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Exactly -



Exactly. That fits with the only successful arguments I’ve seen for sealing the report (either due to the investigation/charges/arrest or due to extreme distress to the family) - haven’t found anything where they’ve gotten it sealed on an argument that it would corrupt the jury...

In a case like this I wonder if the prosecutors are really trying to avoid future appeals since CW will more than likely change lawyers a few times before its all said and done.

Now a public defender may not mind if certain things are released. But a Jose Baez may come in 6 months later and argue that everything should be tossed because the jury pool was tainted due to public release of findings or something. Idk

 

[gitana1]

Exactly -



Exactly. That fits with the only successful arguments I’ve seen for sealing the report (either due to the investigation/charges/arrest or due to extreme distress to the family) - haven’t found anything where they’ve gotten it sealed on an argument that it would corrupt the jury...

How does it fit with the contention that these reports are only sealed when it is an occurrence that could not be imagined when the legislation was drafted?

 

[Charlot123]

I’m not surprised - columbine reports were also withheld, I believe- due to the effect on the family. I don’t think there was any concern raised regarding the potential jurors...? So I’m still looking for a case like this one.

I’m also not sure why an autopsy report (that doesnt include a reference to the “who”) would be any more likely to corrupt potential jurors - as opposed to say, an evidence list or a search warrant or an eyewitness statement. Seems like the same standard should apply.

The Columbine reports are not fully

Here ya' go:

Loveland infant's autopsy report released

In that case, the father of a dead infant was arrested in December 2017. The autopsy report wasn't ready until April 2018. But it was sealed and not released until after he pled guilty in June 2018:

"Though the infant's autopsy report has been sealed as part of the investigation and court proceedings, the Larimer County Coroner's Office confirmed Monday that the infant's name was Adrian Dominguez."
Loveland infant's autopsy report released

What special circumstance was given in that case that the legislature had no way of anticipating when they drafted the legislation regarding release of public records?

It appears that a major reason for continuing to seal an autopsy report is if the overall homicide/death investigation remains ongoing. Then it is determined to be in the public interest to keep such records sealed.

Although the defendant has been charged, the state has said the investigation in this case remains ongoing.

What about the Columbine? I thought I saw autopsies of EH and DK, but not sure. It is my impression that everything was withheld till the last lawsuit was settled, and then nothing was withheld.