Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #36

[Johnny1181]

BBM
I appreciate that you may want to know why some are not totally convinced of CW's guilt for killing the girls, but as I've said before I think it's not a case of believing but waiting to see if more evidence comes to light.

Also, respectfully when you ask the question it is usually followed with a pre-emptive strike, as per the bolded part.

I didn't mean that as a strike of any type. That was a fair response to your post imo.

You stated you're on "the fence". Just wondering what facts or lack there of have you on that fence.

 

[Allabouttrial]

I didn't mean that as a strike of any type. That was a fair response to your post imo.

You stated you're on "the fence". Just wondering what facts or lack there of have you on that fence.

It wasn't me.

I’m still on the fence (one foot on SW side and close to jumping) and I haven’t decided yet. I think there’s a lot more to this that we don’t know and I’m waiting for more to come out. It’s impossible for me to give a theory when I don’t feel there’s enough evidence to convict either one for the death of their girls.
jmo

 

[JDough]

<modsnip - do not tag the member whose post you are quoting> I think any and all VI's who claim to have had contact with SW and CW whether they live in CO or NC or anywhere for that matter, should all be taken at equal face value.
Whether a person is geographically close or not, does not determine the closeness of that relationship and what is being disclosed between them. And similarly, friends who live nearby CW and SW may not have any clue as to what is really going on with SW or CW hence the overall consensus that people never saw this coming with this family.

I absolutely do not disagree with what you are saying about where someone may be geographically. For example; I am very close to my brother, who lives across the United States from me. I know quite a bit about what is going on in his life, and what his thoughts and feelings are. I believe this is the type of relationship SW had with her family, and many of her friends. (Based on my own conclusions from MSM articles, photos, FB posts, the reaction of her father and brother during the court hearing, etc.). I have not been able to come to a conclusion regarding the relationships CW has with others. I don't have enough information.

I'm not sure if there is a right or wrong way to equally weigh the information we receive from a VI in order to come to our own conclusions, but some of the questions I ask myself are: When did the VI know them- was it back in high school, or have they had ongoing/consistent communication and a close relationship? Did the VI know and observe the couple together on numerous occasions, or just once or twice? Was the VI privy to the thoughts, feelings, and emotions of both, or just one side? Is the information being given from first-hand observation, or has it been relayed to them by someone else? I attempt to make a (personal) decision as to the validity based on some of this information. Not everyone will have the same opinion that I do.

We are always fortunate to have a VI in any case. Everything they share is valuable to helping us understand things from their perspective, and I appreciate it very much. Whether we equally agree with it or not will vary.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I guess I would ask, based on CW's abhorrent behavior (imo) what has you on the fence.

Contrasting his behavior with Shanann's loving life toward her husband, friends, and Bella and CeCe.

As I stated in my post and numerous other times, I need more evidence. I’ve looked at everything (way too much) and I’m not willing to jump just yet.

 

[k-mac]

Maybe she stripped the bed after they woke up because she was planning on washing it. If I remember correctly, they normally woke up around 4 am and we all know her house was spotless.
jmo

and put them in the bin?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

<modsnsip: discussing other members> I have great confidence that in this case there will be overwhelming EVIDENCE against CW, just no reason for us to have it yet. There will be a fair trial, if CW doesn't cop a plea. I cannot imagine he will ever be free again, but with a mind like his and ability to do what he did, he never was truly "free." What a sad waste of a life and what a terrible legacy to give the world, to make it so much worse and brings o much pain into the world. Terrible guy, just indefensible even if you only believe what he confessed to. Again, MOO.

Respectfully - some are still exploring and undecided. It certainly doesn’t mean they are trying to convince themselves of CW’s innocence.

 

[gitana1]

My post was in response to Pockets stating the bed being stripped the same day of the murder is the best evidence so far that she didn’t strangle her children.

Yes. I'm sorry. You're totally right! I hadn't seen the original post when I responded.

That being said, I think I would extend that same sentiment to the fact that he threw bedding away. Or do you think he didn't? Are you thinking she may have flew into a rage thinking he was fooling around in her bed and maybe she was the one who threw it away?

That could work for her bedding. I'm not sure what happened with the kids'.

ETA:

I re-read your post. I see that's not what you meant.

Yeah so then I would go back to why did he try to throw away bedding? That is as incriminating as stripping it.

 

[DexterMorgan]

As I stated in my post and numerous other times, I need more evidence. I’ve looked at everything (way too much) and I’m not willing to jump just yet.

Agree. The sloppy disposal probably wasn't planned. So something definitely happened. We do need more information.

 

[WildWest]

She arrives home at 2 am probably exhausted, most likely didn't take shower but must have at least washed her face, brushed teeth, changed into night clothes (15 min?), sleeps less than 2 hours, wakes up at 4 am

Sorry to be the broken record here, but it's practically guaranteed she was barely standing upright with the combination of SLE, demanding weekend full of traveling, traveling delays, and pregnant. BTSIDI, MEO except not nearly her pace, she likely was barely standing upright and could have been blown over by a feather, nothing left in her physically except to kiss her darling daughters while asleep and her collapse in bed.

Thank you for letting my jump off your post and share what I know about similar to SLE.

 

[Johnny1181]

BBM
I appreciate that you may want to know why some are not totally convinced of CW's guilt for killing the girls, but as I've said before I think it's not a case of believing but waiting to see if more evidence comes to light.

Also, respectfully when you ask the question it is usually followed with a pre-emptive strike, as per the bolded part.

It was you, respectfully, that posted this. And still asking for what evidence you would like to see.

And respectfully, I am not pre-emptively doing anything. Just looking for evidence to counter the evidence CW has given.
imo

 

[Johnny1181]

As I stated in my post and numerous other times, I need more evidence. I’ve looked at everything (way too much) and I’m not willing to jump just yet.

What keeps you from jumping? To the evidence CW left telling is what who he is in the affadavit?

As opposed to Shanann showing us as best she could that she was a loving, devoted, supportive wife, mama, and friend. IMO

 

[Gardener1850]

My post was in response to Pockets stating the bed being stripped the same day of the murder is the best evidence so far that she didn’t strangle her children.

If she stripped them to wash them at 4 AM why didn't the sheets end up being found in the washing machine? or at least the laundry room? Why was the bottom sheet found at the site where she was buried and the top sheet and pillow cases found in the trash? What is your opinion about how they got to those locations and why?

 

[k-mac]

Yes. I'm sorry. You're totally right! I hadn't seen the original post when I responded.

That being said, I think I would extend that same sentiment to the fact that he threw bedding away. Or do you think he didn't? Are you thinking she may have flew into a rage thinking he was fooling around in her bed and maybe she was the one who threw it away?

That could work for her bedding. I'm not sure what happened with the kids'.

ETA:

I re-read your post. I see that's not what you meant.

Yeah so then I would go back to why did he try to throw away bedding? That is as incriminating as stripping it.

Imo
these are things still on his doing list but he got caught!!
the matching sheet in the bin is priceless to me

 

[Johnny1181]

It wasn't me.

I corrected my posts accordingly.

Edited to say my page reloaded and combined posts.

 

[kkdj]

At the very least, we know that he brought that bedsheet with him to the dumpsite, likely as en effort to conceal her body during transportation.

She had just got in from a flight, and was likely exhausted. Doing laundry probably wasn’t the first thing on her mind. Sleeping likely was.

CW had other ideas.

He laid in wait for her her. moo

 

[cailleach]

EBM: Wrong post quoted

We're looking at it as sloppy because he got caught much sooner than he likely anticipated. (He didn't anticipate being caught ever, IMO.) I believe he thought he had more time to tie up loose ends and NUA ruined that for him. We have no idea what he would have done if LE wasn't involved so early. We could be discussing in the future what a mastermind criminal he was if things had fallen out differently. JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Imo
these are things still on his doing list but he got caught!!
the matching sheet in the bin is priceless to me

OJ was about as sloppy as it gets, but this one takes the cake. I have no doubt that this will have a happier ending.

 

[MassGuy]

We're looking at it as sloppy because he got caught much sooner than he likely anticipated. (He didn't anticipate being caught ever, IMO.) I believe he thought he had more time to tie up loose ends and NUA ruined that for him. We have no idea what he would have done if LE wasn't involved so early. We could be discussing in the future what a mastermind criminal he was if things had fallen out differently. JMO.

I agree with you that this crime would look much different had he been given the benefit of more time.

He still had too many things working against him to have successfully pulled it off though. The bodies would have been discovered, and the coverup revealed. Just later.

 

[mickey2942]

The only way CW can ever be free, is if the jury pool is from Pinellas county, FL.

I suppose one could have "reasonable doubt" that he killed his children. (I don't, but will defer).

But there is absolutely no doubt that he killed Nico, an unborn baby. Even if he killed SW, trying to save his daughter. His uncontrollable behavior killed that baby. He will go to Everlasting Hell, after this life. This, I know to be true. He can never repent or be saved after that horrific act.

I really have an issue with his attorney, the same one who defended the gal who cut a baby out of a pregnant woman's uterus. I am sure that these souls need an attorney, but both of them are beyond redemption. I know I wouldn't defend them.

 

[MassGuy]

The only way CW can ever be free, is if the jury pool is from Pinellas county, FL.

I suppose one could have "reasonable doubt" that he killed his children. (I don't, but will defer).

But there is absolutely no doubt that he killed Nico, an unborn baby. Even if he killed SW, trying to save his daughter. His uncontrollable behavior killed that baby. He will go to Everlasting Hell, after this life. This, I know to be true. He can never repent or be saved after that horrific act.

I really have an issue with his attorney, the same one who defended the gal who cut a baby out of a pregnant woman's uterus. I am sure that these souls need an attorney, but both of them are beyond redemption. I know I wouldn't defend them.

Our system wouldn’t work, if even the most vile defendants didn’t receive adequate representation. We don’t get to pick and chose who receives 6th Amendment rights.

I hope he gets a great defense, albeit one that fails miserably.