Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #37

[Deleted member 182072]

I'm not clear on whether the sheet and pillowcases were seen on the first walk through or not until later.

On the day Shanann and the girls were reported missing there wasn't just one officer who came, but two? We can't really guarantee neither looked in the trash can. CW could have been planning to burn them or discard them when he got home from work.

Cadaver dogs were going through the house on Tuesday, is that the day he did the interviews? They might have smelled the sheets in the trash can if Shanann was killed in/on the bed? It might not have been possible to collect them until CW was arrested if they preferred to wait for a warrant and they didn't think they could get a warrant at that point in time. If they were watching CW anyway, then it might have been better to say, "yes, that's a good idea for you to stay at your friends' house tonight and have their support instead of being in an empty house, we can keep an eye on the house in case they come back and we'll call you immediately" instead of tipping their hand and telling him they'd found the sheet and pillowcases.

Besides, if there was evidence on those sheets, it's probably not the best idea to throw them in the trash with dirty ... trash? Given that LE saw the bedding on the floor during the walkthrough on the first day, and that the bottom sheet was found out at the oil site, I can't help suspecting CW put the matching pillowcases and sheet into the trash with the idea of concealment on his mind.

I suppose what one could say is that the concealment, with regard to the sheet and pillowcases, could be connected solely to the disposal of the bodies and not to the deaths. But did he know, when he left the house in the morning that the bottom sheet would never be found at the oil site and connect their deaths to the house and to him? At the very least I think we have to say that it does show that before the house he wasn't just thinking of getting the bodies out of the house, he was already thinking deeply about how to get away with it.

BBM
But CW must have thought they were search and rescue dogs because that's what he said in his interview. Ooops!

 

[Tippy Lynn]

If it wasn't actually prescribed by the doctor there is a good chance it was a casual conversation that was not recorded. The absence of a conversation on medical records is proof of nothing. 1) She either didn't ask the 2 people at all, 2) asked and got a "Sure, fine, go ahead", or 3) got a "definitely not". If the answer was the latter, that may have been written down, the second, probably not unless the dr/midwife had prescribed it.

They can only get what’s on record unless they subpoena the healthcare provider to take the stand. I don’t see that happening in this case, but it happens.
jmo

 

[flourish]

Either the patches do something or they don't. If they do nothing, that seems like a snake oil scam. If they do something, it's possible for someone to have an adverse reaction. Imo

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Right. The phone was seized inside the home they both shared. He had the authority to provide consent to its search and seizure.

If it was locked and they didn’t have the unlock code they would need a warrant from Apple. (I believe she had an iPhone)

Since he gave consent would the prosecutors need to prove he gave consent without being coerced?

 

[flourish]

The problem for CW is that his story, of flying into a rage and strangling his wife, THAT prevents him of ever saying he tried to save the girls.

He says SW was 'active;ly strangling' the 2nd child. Thus the child was possibly able to be revived, given medical help.

But by spending those precious several minutes, strangling his wife, and killing his unborn son, he is allowing the certain death of his 2nd daughter.

He cannot ever say that he tried to save his daughter, because his story prevents that from happening.

I would disagree. We know a brief summary of his statement, which stated he "ultimately" strangled her. That doesn't mean he didn't or couldn't have provided care or confirmed they were dead before "ultimately" killing her. It's always possible I missed something.

Edited because walking and typing leads to typos

 

[MassGuy]

Either the patches do something or they don't. If they do nothing, that seems like a snake oil scam. If they do something, it's possible for someone to have an adverse reaction. Imo

The ingredients have some research that indicates health benefits. We don’t know the exact amount of each ingredient in each patch, if they truly work at all, or if they work in patch form.

The company doesn’t cite clinical trials, instead it relies on people describing their experiences. It’s shady, but legal.

I am stunned that something so insignificant, could carry any weight at all here. We are talking about multiple murder.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

So what happens if there is not enough physical evidence to convict CW of killing the girls? Does killing Shanann and also the unborn baby (under the ‘I was enraged, because she killed the girls’ claim)—would that conviction alone at least bring a life sentence? I guess what I’m asking is, what is the worst case scenario where he could get off of certain charges?

He could have done a dozen things to get SW off of CeCe other than kill her and Nico but he didn't. He didn't try to save CeCe and Nico. He instead took 2-5 minutes to strangle his wife to death, not to mention how he handled everything after he killed them. So good luck with that Chris.

 

[WildWest]

Even if her doctor advised against it, which is a big if, who cares?

If she was intentionally trying to harm her baby, which is beyond a stretch, then they might make a point.

She was focused on health, not harm.

You can’t blow this issue up big enough to have any relevance.

Agreed, not relevant. I know much of the country is low altitude like jam packed east coast and west coast, but there are huge popluations above 5000'. There are desirable places to live at like 9000'. Altitude has no bearing imo. I want to mention I was a high risk pregnancy, green tea was encouraged as well as my Perinatal Rheumatologist, my OBGYN, that specializes in rheumatic mothers and I came up with a safe amount of coffee for me every day. PS for those that are fortunate to not know someone with SLE, RA, or Sclero or one of the almost 200 other diseases etc., all those nasty autoimmune diseases are rheumatic, thus rheumatologist, doc's that specialize in that particular affliction.

There is no such thing as altitude sickness when one is acclimated and lives in and travels within a couple thousand feet in altitude. That said, even if they had made a trip up to 9000' and came home with altitude sickness, its debilitating, not really possible one could be that physical with those symptoms. Altitude has zero bearing. Zero. As well as green tea and caffeine. IMO

 

[MyBelle]

I'm happy to wrong on this but doesn't doctor patient confidentiality extend beyond death? If so, that might be an issue in terms of bearing out this theory. Jmo.

Like every other law, there can be exceptions. JMO

 

[Deleted member 182072]

So what happens if there is not enough physical evidence to convict CW of killing the girls? Does killing Shanann and also the unborn baby (under the ‘I was enraged, because she killed the girls’ claim)—would that conviction alone at least bring a life sentence? I guess what I’m asking is, what is the worst case scenario where he could get off of certain charges?

I'm no expert at all but IMO he will be found guilty for all the murders unless their is physical evidence linking SW to killing the girls. And if there was such evidence, they wouldn't have charged him the way they did.

 

[Shekkiec]

We don't know the answer to any of your questions...AND NEITHER DID HE.

He had no idea if his girls were beyond medical help. That's why loving parents ALWAYS call for immediate medical intervention if they find their kids unresponsive. They don't shrug and say, too late, then dump them in an oil tank.

I was asking this questions in response to the time of strangling someone is always at least four minutes. I at trying to point out we do not know the cause of death as to how long it took, what position , if from behind . Imo there are a lot a variables and things can be quick or slow we do not know yet imo

 

[NuttMegg]

My opthamologist asked me if I was using artificial tears. I said yes, showed him the little green bottle, and said do you think it would be better if I use the other kind with hyaluronic acid? He said it's more expensive but probably better. He wrote "yes" on the clinic form, meaning yes I was using artificial tears but mentioned no brand. Drs IMO are reluctant to write down drugs/treatments they don't actually prescribe themselves. If SW asked a casual question of her Dr and of her midwife regarding patches, there's a good chance it was just that, a conversation.

 

[Amonet]

Either the patches do something or they don't. If they do nothing, that seems like a snake oil scam. If they do something, it's possible for someone to have an adverse reaction. Imo

Technically if they do nothing it's still possible for someone to have an adverse reaction. I would think a lot of people probably consider things like that to be snake oil.

I'm not sure what kind of reaction you're referring to. I would think if there are no other documented links to the patches and any kind of reaction that it would be hard for the defense to bring them in. Even if there are reports of adverse reactions, that doesn't prove a link. Most times when you see the long list of possible adverse reactions to a medication it's not that it's a proven connection, but the company are covering themselves by giving the warning as they have no evidence that there isn't a connection, but that's not the same thing as proven causality. I would think without studies suggestive of causality that it might be hard to bring the possibility of an adverse reaction into case arguments at trial? I don't know if one of our Verified expert attorneys has already addressed that, there are so many posts that it's getting hard to remember

 

[pocketaccent]

Their bankruptcy filing was dated 6/5/15 and CeCe was born on 7/17/15. They did in fact indicate on their bankruptcy form that they were expecting another child and that she would be working fewer hours.
Posting from this site only because it is the actual bankruptcy form, not their article:
https://***********.com/wp-content/...y-filing-murdered-wife-two-daughters-docs.pdf

Their bankruptcy filing also show their mortgage balance was $378,348 (original balance $392,709) as of 6/15 which means they were current on their payments at that time.
If you use a 4.15% rate it's almost exactly to the dollar:
Loan Amortization Calculator

If you go forward in time on the schedule to 8/18 when SW was murdered, the balance is down to $354K, assuming they were still current.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sa...9628,-105.075131_rect/12_zm/1_fr/?view=public

If the Zestimate of $501K is accurate, than that would have been a nice tax free gain (net of selling costs) for CW to keep all to himself if LE had just bought his absurd story about her leaving.

Awesome job DaisyK!
I agree, CW would have received approximately $100,000 (tax free capital gains) upon selling the house.

Another motive!

 

[WildWest]

Agreed, not relevant. I know much of the country is low altitude like jam packed east coast and west coast, but there are huge popluations above 5000'. There are desirable places to live at like 9000'. Altitude has no bearing imo. I want to mention I was a high risk pregnancy, green tea was encouraged as well as my Perinatal Rheumatologist, my OBGYN, that specializes in rheumatic mothers and I came up with a safe amount of coffee for me every day. PS for those that are fortunate to not know someone with SLE, RA, or Sclero or one of the almost 200 other diseases etc., all those nasty autoimmune diseases are rheumatic, thus rheumatologist, doc's that specialize in that particular affliction.

There is no such thing as altitude sickness when one is acclimated and lives in and travels within a couple thousand feet in altitude. That said, even if they had made a trip up to 9000' and came home with altitude sickness, its debilitating, not really possible one could be that physical with those symptoms. Altitude has zero bearing. Zero. As well as green tea and caffeine. IMO

I have one other thing to add. A Colorado man got stupid on marijuana edibles and killed his wife.

 

[sun16]

I'm no expert at all but IMO he will be found guilty for all the murders unless their is physical evidence linking SW to killing the girls. And if there was such evidence, they wouldn't have charged him the way they did.

My fear is that if there is not enough evidence to prove SW killed the girls, and not enough to prove CW did either, that he will be found not guilty of killing the girls. I know they charged hin with all 5. So are we saying LE has evidence we don’t know about. that will convict him of killing the girls? (if not obliterated by the oil)

 

[maeleemae]

I don't think her use of a what is essentially a vitamin patch that seems to be okay with at least some doctors constitutes reckless disregard for her baby's health. She wasn't drinking or doing meth. As some of our other posters have pointed out, it's a bit of a long walk to ask a jury to take from Thrive patches to murder. Not to mention, every single thing we know about SW indicates she was incredibly circumspect about her health and her kids' health. In fact, she's been roundly criticized for it. Based on that, I don't believe she lied and it would have to be a proven lie to even come close to what you're suggesting. Jmo.

One of the ingredients in the patch is green coffee bean, which is a stimulant.

According to WebMD, GCB has several side effects such as:

• Insomnia.
• Nervousness.
• Restlessness.
• Upset Stomach.
• Nausea.
• Vomiting.
• Increased heart rate.
• Increased breathing rate.

I wonder how much of that was in the patch? Even if it’s a small amount I wouldn’t wear it if I was pregnant.

 

[NuttMegg]

Awesome job DaisyK!
I agree, CW would have received approximately $100,000 (tax free capital gains) upon selling the house.

Another motive!

Why would it be tax free for capital gains?

 

[MyBelle]

Right. The phone was seized inside the home they both shared. He had the authority to provide consent to its search and seizure.

CW had the legal authority to consent to the search of SW's phone? I think LE would get a search warrant whether or not CW gave permission. JMO

 

[PommyMommy]

One of the ingredients in the patch is green coffee bean, which is a stimulant.

According to WebMD, GCB has several side effects such as:

• Insomnia.
• Nervousness.
• Restlessness.
• Upset Stomach.
• Nausea.
• Vomiting.
• Increased heart rate.
• Increased breathing rate.

I wonder how much of that was in the patch? Even if it’s a small amount I wouldn’t wear it if I was pregnant.

Coffee (caffeinated) and cigarettes are also stimulants. Pregnant women ingest both every day. How does any of this matter?
MOO