Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #38

[NuttMegg]

The comments he left do seem a bit scripted, like what you would see on a commercial for ultrasounds. If that makes sense. It makes me wonder if he wrote them or if she did. Or was he just like that all the time? Morphing into what he thought everyone wanted him to be?

I have to believe he loved his children at one time. That's what makes this so baffling to me, along with every family annihalator case. That you could want a fresh start enough, that you could hate your wife enough to harm your children.

One of the most poignant posts I've ever read on that very issue was by @pocketaccent (I'm pretty sure) a few threads back, and I've meant to find and quote it but haven't had time yet.

I can't fathom how anyone could murder those sweet little girls. How could he? Those poor innocent babies.

All IMO
1) that watermelon baby shower centerpiece was wonderful, really cute
2) CW looked better as a brunette than with his dyed yellow(ish) hair and sculpted beard-metrosexual look nowadays
3) No, of course he didn't write any of those scripted sentences.

 

[rainynights]

The comments he left do seem a bit scripted, like what you would see on a commercial for ultrasounds. If that makes sense. It makes me wonder if he wrote them or if she did. Or was he just like that all the time? Morphing into what he thought everyone wanted him to be?

I have to believe he loved his children at one time. That's what makes this so baffling to me, along with every family annihalator case. That you could want a fresh start enough, that you could hate your wife enough to harm your children.

One of the most poignant posts I've ever read on that very issue was by @pocketaccent (I'm pretty sure) a few threads back, and I've meant to find and quote it but haven't had time yet.

I can't fathom how anyone could murder those sweet little girls. How could he? Those poor innocent babies.

Morphing sounds about right to me. CW seemed to blend in well. Almost as if he had the "being a product of his environment" thing going on. Whatever situation he was in, I think he was likely reactive to his circumstances.

As for love, I find it hard to believe that he loved his children at any point, due to what happened here. I'd like to believe that love isn't as easy as flipping a switch to turn it on or off. What he confessed to doing with the girls bodies alone makes me question if he really loved them. Jmo

 

[Nudgee]

Good Morning all..... I’ve been reading through threads/discussions trying to keep up! Not quoting/replying to any specific discussion, just adding my 2cents about some of the discussions!

I am still a believer that the AP person ending the affair & CW snapped at the loss.... also not saying weather it was premeditated or not since I don’t have facts even if/when AP ended the affair....it could go both ways once we hear more.. for now, just a gut feeling I’m going on.

As for the DP.... that’s another thing that haunts me. I’m generally against an “eye for an eye” stance, but at times I try to understand it. With this case, as much as I may have initially wanted the DP, I think back to the words of Father John Forbes at SW,BW,CCW’s funeral after SW’s family sentiments were read by him.... he said “they do not desire vengeance and death, but life and justice”. I don’t know exactly where & why that statement came from or if it’s thier words. But it does lead me to think it may be the feelings of SW’s family...... what I hope for......is whatever the Rzucek family hopes for.
Transcript of service comments (Funeral held in North Carolina for Shanann Watts, daughters)

 

[PommyMommy]

I recall reading a prior post that pointed out CW didn’t have many close relationships with women, or men.
I wonder about his upbringing and personal family life sometimes. Just what makes a person do what he did.

Chris Watts, accused of killing pregnant wife, kids in Colorado, has Fayetteville ties
Others who remember Watts from high school described him as a boy that every girl had a crush on, but shy and awkward.

Duty said most of his students, in particular the good ones, have kept in constant contact with him. That was not the case with Watts.

“I really wondered why I never heard from him,” Duty said.

He remembered his former student as extremely introverted and quiet. Watts would sit in class and hardly say a word, Duty said.

“If you talked to him,” he added, “he would talk to you. Often, I wondered why he was so withdrawn. He was very clean-cut, very respectful, very smart.”

 

[Nikynoo]

I recall reading a prior post that pointed out CW didn’t have many close relationships with women, or men.
I wonder about his upbringing and personal family life sometimes. Just what makes a person do what he did.

I dont think this is accurate but agree that a poster speculated about the perceived lack of close relationships.

 

[human]

Thank you to @Gardenista for posting Shanann's blog last thread. I had not seen it before. I noticed Chris commented on some of her blog posts:
Journey of Bella Marie: Bella Marie at 16 weeks

I can't figure out if he was really in love with his wife and children or if he said sweet things like that because he was parroting what he thought a loving father would say. I'm leaning towards the latter-- Something just doesn't ring true to me about these words he wrote. They seem too perfect. But maybe I'm biased by the glaring fact that he took this baby he was eager to hold for the first time and shoved her little body into a crude oil tank only 5 years later.

Mind boggling isn’t it. I read years ago about the guy who killed his wife and said some black guys did it. I read that he had no inner core. Just mimicked what people should be like.

So, hard to comprehend, but this is probably CW.

 

[MsBetsy]

I do not believe this is accurate.

There are many accounts of this, including a VI who said he didn't have girlfriends in high school and only one relationship before SW. Others said he was quiet and never went out to socialize with others, his roommate said he stayed behind and studied. Some said he was a loner. Others said he didn't talk much with anybody. To me this indicates a lack of social skills, or that he did not relate well to people. Jmo

 

[JDough]

I do not believe this is accurate.

In your opinion, why do you think none of CW's (current) friends are coming forward? It is something I have been wondering about. Not trying to question your beliefs of CW, just trying to look at things from another angle.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Morphing sounds about right to me. CW seemed to blend in well. Almost as if he had the "being a product of his environment" thing going on. Whatever situation he was in, I think he was likely reactive to his circumstances.

He was like a chameleon ... blended in with his surroundings. That's doing chameleons a disservice though coz they're gorgeous little critters.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

@Mrspratcher

I also wonder if he was really speeding through red lights when he knew his entire family was dead.

Oh, I really believe that was the truth about speeding through the red lights. I don’t know where he was when NUA rang him and told him that she had called LE but I thought he told her that he’d be there in 5 minutes. That would be an excellent reason to drive through red lights. He told NUA that she was going to visit a friend that day, so why the huge rush to get home before LE. It seems to me there was something he absolutely wanted to retrieve from the house before they arrived. Too bad, LE got there first, and lucky for NUA that they did.

It's going to be very interesting, with GPS information if they have it, to see exactly when he left where he was to come home. Was it at 12:10 when she first called, or was it afterwards when he saw through the ring doorbell that she was still in the neighborhood and heard her calling the police? If he was 5 minutes away, he was already on his way home I think. And I wonder if he was 5 minutes away for some time, waiting for her to leave the house so he could go into it after she had left, but she never did.

ETA, and the next day or so after he disposed of her purse and cell phone and luggage, he would have proof that she was home during the day because someone saw her purse on the counter, and her bag at the door, and her phone was at the house. So she must have left out the back way.

I really don't think that he banked on police would actually enter his house on a wellness call and she had not been gone over 24 or 48 hours.

 

[NuttMegg]

It's going to be very interesting, with GPS information if they have it, to see exactly when he left where he was to come home. Was it at 12:10 when she first called, or was it afterwards when he saw through the ring doorbell that she was still in the neighborhood and heard her calling the police? If he was 5 minutes away, he was already on his way home I think. And I wonder if he was 5 minutes away for some time, waiting for her to leave the house so he could go into it after she had left, but she never did.

I wonder when his shift actually started and ended. Did he say he was 5 minutes away the first time she called him? The GPS is going to be seated as a prize witness, I think.

 

[Gardener1850]

I recall reading a prior post that pointed out CW didn’t have many close relationships with women, or men.
I wonder about his upbringing and personal family life sometimes. Just what makes a person do what he did.

People have theorized all kinds of things about him not having previous girlfriends. I think maybe most women turned him down because they got a weird vibe from him. Maybe he had learned the right things to say but every once in a while something strange would slip out. I think he doesn't have the ability to read other's facial expressions and empathize with them. It's evident to me by his eating pizza and asking the Thayers how they thought he sounded on his TV interviews. And telling them he wanted to sell the house. And stating he would miss telling the girls to eat their dinner. And the barrel rush hug thing-- that sounds like something out of a movie, not real life. It's an image he was trying to create of the perfect family man with kids who adored him. IMO, he had no idea how he was sounding. He was playing a part and saying things he thought sounded good. Maybe he did that all of his life, not just in those interviews. I think SW was perfect for CW because when he said something a little off she laughed, told him he was weird, and taught him the more appropriate things to say and do. She was the one woman who looked past his awkwardness and she improved him IMO. It's too bad that nothing SW did or taught him would change who he really was on the inside. An empty, unfeeling sociopath. MOO.

 

[JudgeJudi]

@NuttMegg

“It would have been far easier for SW to maintain her lifestyle and income, albeit with relatives, and maintain or increase her sales. There is no proof at all that he was leaving her for another relationship. Speculation is easy, but the only "proof" of that is when HE SAYS he asked for a separation, which he came up with after he killed her”.

Who would believe anything HE SAYS after the multiple versions we’ve heard so far, and we yet hear another one IF it gets to trial. Lies, lies and more lies.

 

[MKZoo]

Good Morning all..... I’ve been reading through threads/discussions trying to keep up! Not quoting/replying to any specific discussion, just adding my 2cents about some of the discussions!

I am still a believer that the AP person ending the affair & CW snapped at the loss.... also not saying weather it was premeditated or not since I don’t have facts even if/when AP ended the affair....it could go both ways once we hear more.. for now, just a gut feeling I’m going on.

As for the DP.... that’s another thing that haunts me. I’m generally against an “eye for an eye” stance, but at times I try to understand it. With this case, as much as I may have initially wanted the DP, I think back to the words of Father John Forbes at SW,BW,CCW’s funeral after SW’s family sentiments were read by him.... he said “they do not desire vengeance and death, but life and justice”. I don’t know exactly where & why that statement came from or if it’s thier words. But it does lead me to think it may be the feelings of SW’s family...... what I hope for......is whatever the Rzucek family hopes for.
Transcript of service comments (Funeral held in North Carolina for Shanann Watts, daughters)

I took what Fr. Forbes said in the homily as more or less a statement from the family. I can’t imagine him saying something that definitive if they hadn’t specifically discussed it before the mass. But I’m definitely with you. Whatever justice looks like to the Rzuceks, I hope they get it. Jmo.

 

[Thepoet]

@gitana1 and @Mrspratcher

If I understand the following correctly, if the person is convicted of a felonious killing in a criminal proceeding, after all right to appeal has been exhausted, such conviction is conclusive under the Slayer Statute. Thus, the killer’s right to inherit from the victim is extinguished and the killer is generally treated as though he or she predeceased the victim.

Colorado Revised Statutes 2016 § 15-11-803 – Colorado Probate Code

15-11-803. Effect of homicide on intestate succession, wills, trusts, joint assets, life insurance, and beneficiary designations.

(1) Definitions. As used in this section, unless the context otherwise requires:
…
(b) "Felonious killing", except as provided in subsection (7) of this section, is the killing of the decedent by an individual who, as a result thereof, is convicted of, pleads guilty to, or enters a plea of nolo contendere to the crime of murder in the first or second degree or manslaughter, as said crimes are defined in sections 18-3-102 to 18-3-104, C.R.S.

(2) Forfeiture of statutory benefits. An individual who feloniously kills the decedent forfeits all benefits with respect to the decedent's estate, including an intestate share, an elective share, an omitted spouse's or child's share, the decedent's homestead exemption under section 38-41-204, C.R.S., exempt property, and a family allowance. If the decedent died intestate, the decedent's intestate estate passes as if the killer disclaimed his or her intestate share.
…
(b) Severs the interests of the decedent and killer in property held by them at the time of the killing as joint tenants with the right of survivorship or as community property with the right of
survivorship, transforming the interests of the decedent and killer into tenancies in common.
…
(6) Wrongful acquisition of property. A wrongful acquisition of property or interest by a killer not covered by this section shall be treated in accordance with the principle that a killer cannot profit from his or her wrong.

(7) Felonious killing; how determined - time limitations on civil proceedings.
(a) Criminal proceedings. After all right to appeal has been waived or exhausted following the entry of a judgment of conviction establishing criminal accountability for the felonious killing of the decedent, such judgment conclusively establishes the convicted individual as the decedent's killer for purposes of this section.

https://leg.colorado.gov/sites/default/files/images/olls/crs2016-title-1q5.pdf (page 168)

In your opinion would the property be sold, SW’s share distributed to her parents, and CW’s share held in trust until all appeals have been finalised?

WOW! You've done some work. Good job! Good questions!

 

[Mrspratcher]

@Mrspratcher

I also wonder if he was really speeding through red lights when he knew his entire family was dead.

Oh, I really believe that was the truth about speeding through the red lights. I don’t know where he was when NUA rang him and told him that she had called LE but I thought he told her that he’d be there in 5 minutes. That would be an excellent reason to drive through red lights. He told NUA that she was going to visit a friend that day, so why the huge rush to get home before LE. It seems to me there was something he absolutely wanted to retrieve from the house before they arrived. Too bad, LE got there first, and lucky for NUA that they did.

I agree. If he was speeding, it was because he knew the gig was up. He already knew where his family was.

 

[Best of What's Around]

It's going to be very interesting, with GPS information if they have it, to see exactly when he left where he was to come home. Was it at 12:10 when she first called, or was it afterwards when he saw through the ring doorbell that she was still in the neighborhood and heard her calling the police? If he was 5 minutes away, he was already on his way home I think. And I wonder if he was 5 minutes away for some time, waiting for her to leave the house so he could go into it after she had left, but she never did.

ETA, and the next day or so after he disposed of her purse and cell phone and luggage, he would have proof that she was home during the day because someone saw her purse on the counter, and her bag at the door, and her phone was at the house. So she must have left out the back way.

I really don't think that he banked on police would actually enter his house on a wellness call and she had not been gone over 24 or 48 hours.

I believe he told the police, who called him once they arrived, that he was just 5 minutes away as they asked for the code to enter the garage. He apparently was already on the way having been told by NAU that she was calling the police. Then the police arrived before him.

 

[MsBetsy]

The comments he left do seem a bit scripted, like what you would see on a commercial for ultrasounds. If that makes sense. It makes me wonder if he wrote them or if she did. Or was he just like that all the time? Morphing into what he thought everyone wanted him to be?

I have to believe he loved his children at one time. That's what makes this so baffling to me, along with every family annihalator case. That you could want a fresh start enough, that you could hate your wife enough to harm your children.

One of the most poignant posts I've ever read on that very issue was by @pocketaccent (I'm pretty sure) a few threads back, and I've meant to find and quote it but haven't had time yet.

I can't fathom how anyone could murder those sweet little girls. How could he? Those poor innocent babies.

People with APD are very good at studying and mimicking normal behavior, as well as adjusting or changing their behavior based on what they think one expects them or wants them to be. Its a common characteristic. Not saying CW has a Personality Disorder, but there are many indications that he may. Especially the fact that he was able to kill his entire family without appearing to have remorse, guilt, or shame about what he did. He showed signs of deception even before the murder. Even in his presentation for his Communications class, his voice was monotone throughout, as if he was talking about something other people do, as opposed to his actually understanding anything about relationships. He is described as being a loner, not talking much. Not participating in social activities. No one seems to have known him very well. His roommate said the only reason they were friendly was be cause they roomed together.
And in the videos it seems he needed prompting to participate. Jmo

 

[mtnlites]

So despite the myriad of things that CW lied about, there are a few things that I suspect were the truth: that he really DID drive like a bat out of Hades to get home, that all three were strangled, and that he saw something on the baby monitor (I think it was one of the girls after he killed them).

 

[MsBetsy]

I believe he told the police, who called him once they arrived, that he was just 5 minutes away as they asked for the code to enter the garage. He apparently was already on the way having been told by NAU that she was calling the police. Then the police arrived before him.

Didn't he say the key pad was broken or wasn't working?

 

[rainynights]

I wonder when his shift actually started and ended. Did he say he was 5 minutes away the first time she called him? The GPS is going to be seated as a prize witness, I think.

We know the officer was dispatched to the home at 1:40pm. This was after NUA reported that she called CW asking him to come home since she was worried about SW and the girls.

After the officer's arrival, per the warrentless arrest affidavit, LE called him asking for the code to get access to the house. CW told him he was 5 minutes away and that it was broken.

My guess is that CW was still trying to keep up appearances at work. If he was able to report for work right after murdering his wife and concealing the bodies of his family members, I highly doubt NUA showing up at his door would have been enough to pull him away from a lunch break, or whatever else he was doing.

He was trying to shoo away NUA initially, by telling her SW and the girls were at a friends house, alluding to a separation, and who knows what else. That didn't seem acceptable at all to NUA, which I think led her to calling the police. I think he probably left for work as soon as NUA let him know of that (if she did), which probably left a good amount of time for police to respond to the house, speak with NUA alone to get some background, and walk around the outside of the house looking for an entry way. Jmo