Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #39

[tmar]

I know! I was excited to see it open. With my time zone I’m usually reading when it’s closed.

Same here.
But the usual Posters have gone to bed, leaving us alone here.
So we better behave, so it continues to be open, tomorrow night.
I think the Mods felt sorry for us, as we miss out.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I know! I was excited to see it open. With my time zone I’m usually reading when it’s closed.

And I got to do three edits on the post above without having 100 post after me LOL.

I still think it's interesting that the media submission which is four posts above here, is not on the court site. I wonder if the response is going to be on the court site @Amandaaa that we look at or we are going to have to look at that site that Amandaaa is tracking. Without our lawyers here, we would have never seen that. I don't think Ashley has talked about that on her TV show or I have seen that in the media yet, or have I just missed it.

 

[tmar]

And I got to do three edits on the post above without having 100 post after me LOL.

I still think it's interesting that the media submission which is four posts above here, is not on the court site. I wonder if the response is going to be on the court site that we look at or we are going to have to look at that site that Amandaaa is tracking. Without our lawyers here, we would have never seen that. I don't think Ashley has talked about that on her TV show or I have seen that in the media yet, or have I just missed it.

Yes, you certainly have been busy, with the Post you mentioned.
Now we wait for Lawyers.
Maybe there is one, not sleeping at present.

 

[DeeMor]

How about this;

The change in CW's behavior (distant, according to SW) and the closing of his FB page are markers of when his planning began. Maybe not planning anything extreme yet, but planning changes. Sometime after they get home from NC, but before SW leaves for Arizona, something happens, or is said, which makes his plans become more extreme and sets them into motion. In turn he says something to her, while she is in Arizona which causes her to not feel well and perhaps be aprehensive. The delayed flight is the final trigger, because it eliminates three or more hours he had planned on, and he probably blamed her. Now horrible things begin to happen. I believe the girls were killed first, to punish SW when she arrived home.

I also believe there are triggers, if we look for them. The first trigger was his appearance and people being more attracted to him, increasing his confidence. The second trigger was the affair. The third trigger was, coincidentally, the third pregnancy. It countered the elation of his affair and made him feel trapped. The fourth trigger was something that was said,or happened, before SW went to Arizona (Maybe she told him they needed to discuss separation when she returned). The final trigger was the delayed flight. Each trigger moved things forward and led to the next trigger until the horrible, final outcome occurred.

I mostly wrote this to get things straight in my head. And I edited it a couple of times. I would appreciate any comments.

I like your theory. I have thought along the same lines..... I believe these murders were planned in advance, to be committed around that time. CWs 'clean up' was hurried and sloppy, because of the flight delay...coupled with NA throwing a spanner in the works, by initiating a premature introduction of the police for a wellness check. Yes, sadly I think this was a very cold and calculated multiple murder rather than the spur of the moment 'snap' job that I initially thought it was. And those little girls may even have been killed well before Shanann arrived home. Do you think there's a chance that the autopsy results will be made public? I can't understand the prosecution requesting that they be sealed.

 

[Tricia]

What happened, to closing the site tonight?
We must all be behaving.

Well yes and no. LOL. I have been working on a few things tonight, lost track of time, and came here to see if the thread melted down overnight. You all did OK. With the exception of off-topic posts not too bad.

However, I haven't actually checked the alerts yet so I reserve the right to take this all back. LOL

Please remember to stay on topic. Discussing how Websleuths is perceived by others has nothing to do with the Watts case. Before you hit the post button ask yourself if what you are about to post is directly related to the Watts case. lf not then please do not submit the post.

Thank you,

Tricia

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Yes, you certainly have been busy, with the Post you mentioned.
Now we wait for Lawyers.
Maybe there is one, not sleeping at present.

Yeppers, it's a subject I'm very interested in! I started out by asking a lot of questions, and input, and then I said I need to do the research myself! So it took me less than 60 minutes so I took all that time to keep redoing my post LOL. Sorry for those that had to go through seeing each iteration and my thought process as I was going through it. But I think I got the Post finally nail down before my 60 Minutes expired. I just hope the moderators don't have to look at each of my iterations while I was developing my theory and questions and statements and links!

 

[BrownRice]

And I got to do three edits on the post above without having 100 post after me LOL.

I still think it's interesting that the media submission which is four posts above here, is not on the court site. I wonder if the response is going to be on the court site that we look at or we are going to have to look at that site that Amandaaa is tracking. Without our lawyers here, we would have never seen that. I don't think Ashley has talked about that on her TV show or I have seen that in the media yet, or have I just missed it.

I find the FOIA and CORA requests intriguing. Even our site attorneys have different opinions and thoughts. Will be curious to see if AB producers read here and mention this on show.

 

[Thepoet]

I like your theory. I have thought along the same lines..... I believe these murders were planned in advance, to be committed around that time. CWs 'clean up' was hurried and sloppy, because of the flight delay...coupled with NA throwing a spanner in the works, by initiating a premature introduction of the police for a wellness check. Yes, sadly I think this was a very cold and calculated multiple murder rather than the spur of the moment 'snap' job that I initially thought it was. And those little girls may even have been killed well before Shanann arrived home. Do you think there's a chance that the autopsy results will be made public? I can't understand the prosecution requesting that they be sealed.

Thanks. I believe we're looking at a month or two of motions and hearings about the autopsy results, but they will be released. The media's arguments are strong and will prevail.

 

[tmar]

I find the FOIA and CORA requests intriguing. Even our site attorneys have different opinions and thoughts. Will be curious to see if AB producers read here and mention this on show.

Besides ourselves, having different opinions, so do our Lawyers.
Let us see, answers to dixie's hard work.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I find the FOIA and CORA requests intriguing. Even our site attorneys have different opinions and thoughts. Will be curious to see if AB producers read here and mention this on show.

Yes, it is something new and a case study that I am unfamiliar with and can learn from.

That is what is so interesting in this as we can discuss law in the case before we have/are waiting on more information on the case itself.

It's intriguing.

And I really appreciate the discussion and discourse among the attorneys. And each having their input. My own opinion.

I think this might perhaps be one of the most interesting cases I've ever followed. Because I have never (msm agrees!) seen a family Annihilator case like this. This case May set precedent or two I think.

There's going to be some very interesting goings-on with Freedom of Information Act that our lawyers here, ( many), will help us with. I've never seen so many lawyers on a case and I think it is fabulous.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I find the FOIA and CORA requests intriguing. Even our site attorneys have different opinions and thoughts. Will be curious to see if AB producers read here and mention this on show.

I put Amandaaa's Link in the media and timeline thread. It seems that that has not been updated for some time and I thought it was appropriate. It's not media, but I think legal stuff perhaps should go there that's important?

MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINES - NO DISCUSSION - - Shanann Watts (34, dec.), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4

 

[JudgeJudi]

I had the idea that he told them the girls were in the tanks after they confronted him with her body and the sheet, but I may be wrong, because he did not give up anything until they had the goods on him.

I thought he told them where to find them when he confessed Wednesday night.

well the way i am remembering it is they put it out that they suspected it before he told them.

I thought I may as well put in all relevant parts of the timeline.

Monday, Aug. 13
1:48 a.m. — A security camera on a neighbor's house captures SW being dropped off by a friend. (NUA)

5:27 a.m. — The neighbor's surveillance camera captures CW backing his truck up to his garage.

1:40 p.m. — Officer Coonrod was dispatched.

Approx. 2:35 p.m. — Det. Baumhover arrived.

Tuesday, Aug. 14
7 a.m. — A detective requests that a press release about their status as missing be sent out.

Tuesday afternoon — CW speaks with 9News.

Wednesday, Aug. 15
4:15 p.m. — Prior to CW’s confession, police investigators start a drone search of the oil and gas site where they believed the bodies to be located. They spot a bed sheet matching the pattern of several pillow cases and a top sheet recovered from a kitchen trash can in the home earlier that day. Police also spot "fresh movement of dirt consistent with a clandestine grave near the oil tanks."

Wednesday evening — LE learn of the affair with a co-worker. CW "said he would tell the truth after speaking with his dad" who was at the police station at the time. He then confessed “the truth” of what happened.

11:30 p.m. — CW arrested on suspicion of 3 x first-degree murder charges and three charges of tampering with a deceased human body.

Thursday, Aug. 16
2:30 p.m. — CW appears in court – bond denied

Thursday afternoon — SW’s body is found in a shallow grave”. The children are found inside oil tanks located near SW’s grave later that evening.

Timeline: Investigation into Christopher Watts, Colorado family killing

Killer dad ‘confessed’ after ‘chat’ with father

 

[Amonet]

@ZsaZsa

“The one comment that stuck with me is that when animals die in tar pits, their remains are intact for a LONG time after and DNA can be extracted then....”

That’s true, but the DNA is from teeth and bones, not skin.

Yes, but in the tar pits the animals are 10,000 years old. The inside of bones and teeth is a protected area where there's more likely to be good quality and uncontaminated DNA, so they always go for those areas when checking for DNA.

I thought in this case we were more likely looking at trace DNA from another individual left on the skin of the body in the oil tank? And that oil is going to have to be washed off the body in order to examine the skin, so when the oil is washed off, do you also wash off some skin cells from the body that's in the tank and the trace DNA? Because then you wouldn't find that trace DNA on the skin. So I suppose you'd have to scrape that oil from various areas of the body and then try to amplify *any* DNA that's in the oil and then identify how many individuals the DNA belongs to and get a good DNA profile for each individual that could be presented in court (it's not a strong enough profile the DNA expert who is called to testify in court won't be able to say that it's a very strong match even if the DNA is consistent on the markers they do have in the profile). And then you've got the problem that the oil itself is a contaminated product as it's been washing around that body. But on the other hand the same process should be done on samples from other areas of the body that can be used as comparison points for potential contamination, but then you've got the problem that Shanann and CW's DNA is going to be on everything in that home.

After reading the link (Margarita?) posted earlier about the bacterial DNA from the original environment of oil being extracted from modern oil that hadn't yet been pumped, I'm more hopeful that DNA could be extracted and possibly get a profile from it, but how do you determine whether that DNA is trace DNA from the COD or if it's trace DNA that was on the bedding or clothing of the child?

 

[JudgeJudi]

I thought in this case we were more likely looking at trace DNA from another individual left on the skin of the body in the oil tank? And that oil is going to have to be washed off the body in order to examine the skin, so when the oil is washed off, do you also wash off some skin cells from the body that's in the tank and the trace DNA? Because then you wouldn't find that trace DNA on the skin.

I agree with you, but that was the point of my post. I should have made it clearer. Touch DNA is very easily contaminated at the best of times and after cleaning the bodies, I think they'd be lucky to get any. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I thought I may as well put in all relevant parts of the timeline.

Monday, Aug. 13
1:48 a.m. — A security camera on a neighbor's house captures SW being dropped off by a friend.

5:27 a.m. — The neighbor's surveillance camera captures CW backing his truck up to his garage.

1:40 p.m. — LE arrive at the house after having been called by NUA.

Tuesday, Aug. 14
7 a.m. — A detective requests that a press release about their status as missing be sent out.

Tuesday afternoon — CW speaks with 9News.

Wednesday, Aug. 15
4:15 p.m. — Prior to CW’s confession, police investigators start a drone search of the oil and gas site where they believed the bodies to be located. They spot a bed sheet matching the pattern of several pillow cases and a top sheet recovered from a kitchen trash can in the home earlier that day. Police also spot "fresh movement of dirt consistent with a clandestine grave near the oil tanks."

Wednesday evening — LE learn of the affair with a co-worker. CW "said he would tell the truth after speaking with his dad" who was at the police station at the time. He then confessed “the truth” of what happened.

11:30 p.m. — CW arrested on suspicion of 3 x first-degree murder charges and three charges of tampering with a deceased human body.

Thursday, Aug. 16
2:30 p.m. — CW appears in court – bond denied

Thursday afternoon — SW’s body is found in a shallow grave”. The children are found inside oil tanks located near SW’s grave later that evening.

Timeline: Investigation into Christopher Watts, Colorado family killing

Killer dad ‘confessed’ after ‘chat’ with father

A great idea to have a timeline buried at the beginning of each thread! I would add the 1:48 a.m. that Nicole arrived, the 5:27 a.m. that he backed in and left a short time later, the 12:10 p.m. that Nicole arrived and spoke over the ring,

the 1:40 p.m. as a correction that officer Conrad was *dispatched*,( as far as I know we do not know what time he arrived at the scene is this was not an emergency call).

And that at 2:36 p.m. detective Baumhover arrives.

All of these are from the warrantless affidavit, with the exception of when she and CW communicated at the door which was in a video.

 

[scdiv]

A great idea to have a timeline buried at the beginning of each thread! I would add the 1:48 a.m. that Nicole arrived, the 5:27 a.m. that he backed in and left a short time later, the 12:10 p.m. that Nicole arrived and spoke over the ring,

the 1:40 p.m. as a correction that officer Conrad was *dispatched*,( as far as I know we do not know what time he arrived at the scene is this was not an emergency call).

And that at 2:36 p.m. detective Baumhover arrives.

All of these are from the warrantless affidavit, with the exception of when she and CW communicated at the door which was in a video.

It has also been reported that Nickole came to the house on Monday at 12:10 p.m.

(It was reported on in several articles, not sure where that originated, but fits the timeline - Husband Arrested for Killing Pregnant Wife and Daughters After Telling TV Their Disappearance Was ‘Tearing Me Apart’)

 

[DeeMor]

So many things on this case make no sense- but then again, murder doesn't make sense either, so maybe it's just that a sane person can't understand an insane one.

But I'm just putting this out there- from the beginning, it's been odd to me that it went down the way it did. I could see him losing it and killing SW in the middle of a 4am argument, I guess, although he has no history of violence that we know of, and it really makes no sense. People divorce all the time, very few kill their spouses to end the marriage. I can't honestly see SW killing her babies, but to be honest, I can't see him doing it either. They just always looked so happy together, all of them. Normal, with a bit of bickering or nagging, sure, but that's married parenting life. But if it was premeditated or he killed the girls earlier, why did he leave the crime scene such an obvious mess? Why didn't he have things thought out better, for coverup? If he killed the girls earlier, and then waited for SW to get home, he would have had time to plan how to conceal it, probably thought through all the details- like calling to postpone/cancel her dr appointment, or set the stage so it looked like she left him or at least they were burglarized. And yet, he didn't. And if he killed SW first, then why kill the girls at all? He could have just loaded everyone in the vehicle, called in to work taking a day off, propped SW with a pillow and blanket and told the girls (in their carseats, unable to reach mommy) that she was napping because she got in late, then drove somewhere and dumped her, and claimed she walked off, drowned, whatever. He did none of that. It's like the whole thing happened and he was just in shock.

His behavior reminded me so much of when one of my kids does something they shouldn't, and another one covers up for them. Like they're playing with grandma's glass dog figurines and one gets dropped and shatters, and they all lie and say "we weren't, it just fell" because no one wants to see their sibling they love get sent to time out.

I honestly wonder- what if when SW's flight was delayed, the AP came over because CW thought SW wasn't going to get home until the next morning? What if SW walked in on them, and that's why the sheets were ripped off the bed? What if they all three got into an "emotional conversation"- and then while SW and CW were arguing, because he does love her, and unlike what he told AP, he wasn't leaving her, which made AP mad seeing him not standing up for her and kicking SW out, AP was the one that went down the hall and strangled the little girls, to punish CW for not choosing her, and CW and SW saw THAT on the monitor and ran down there? (I think it's possible he saw a woman strangling one of the girls and the girl dying, although he didn't realize she was blue until he made it into the room, and in his mind, in grief-shock state, he just combined the two images into one).

Stay with me- but if that's the case, then I could see SW and AP getting into a fight, obviously. If CW loves AP, or heaven forbid, she is also pregnant (wouldn't be the first time we've read of men getting a wife and mistress preggo at the same time), and he intervened to protect AP from SW (which explains why he wasn't trying to resuscitate the girls, because he was dealing with the other drama), and then killed SW, it might explain the last minute, poorly thought out attempt at cover up. And the weird way he totally confessed to all of it and then changed his story slightly to say he didn't kill the girls- if he was trying to cover up for AP. And if he knew the hands around the little girls' necks were a female's and therefore smaller than his own hands (which would show up in the coroner's report), then he decided to blame their deaths on SW, who was already dead, and leave AP completely out of it, so she'd stay out of prison. He wouldn't be the first person to take the blame on a crime someone else did, as a cover up. Especially if he felt guilt that the whole scenario was his fault, for having the affair to begin with.

I know it's random, but it doesn't seem that far fetched to me. He could have sent AP out the backdoor, through the construction site (a lot of people having affairs park a bit away and sneak in so not to be seen by neighbors), back to her car, and tried to clean up. And then, because he felt disloyal to SW, he put on the shirt she gave him, as a way to try to connect to her and make it up to her for killing her. And it would explain why he seemed so detached and calm- if he was trying to just hold it together for the sake of the AP and protecting her, and was in shock at how everything had gone down.

And on another random note, I wonder if he put the girls' bodies into the tanks to protect them from getting dug up and drug around by wild animals, and wanted to do the same with SW, but SW wouldn't fit. Like a burial at sea of sorts, but last minute and panicking. The whole thing just seems really erratic and spontaneous. AP is the wild card. But her presence in the house that morning helps make some of the weird "why" moments make sense.

The ENTIRE Watts drama is non-sensical, IMO. I'm sure it's been discussed before, but I can't understand why C.W. would put those little sisters - his daughters, in SEPERATE tanks. Maybe (he knew) their combined body mass could somehow set off alarms, or some such thing? Maybe? I know he'd have to take seperate trips, to carry each child, but even a cold hearted murderer of children (who was ualmost certainly their own father!) would like to see these sisters together...even in death. The more I think about this case, the more distressed I become. The more I think about it, the more bazaar it plays out. It's a really tough one!

 

[Amandaaa]

@Amandaaa

The media request that was submitted on the 4th of October is not filed on the website that we have been looking at here

Colorado Judicial Branch


Thank you Amandaa for sharing that, but since it's not on that site, will the response be listed there? Am I missing something?



I never knew to search there Amandaaa! How did you know to look there? Will the reply be at that website versus at the court site? Thank you so much for finding it!

@Mrspratcher
@gitana1
@Alethea
@Bill Carson

ETA #3 - although not mainstream media, a legal discussion which I thought was very interesting from the site that you got that from, and I thought I would share.

Court in Watts case is wrong venue to decide access to autopsies, media groups and CFOIC say - Colorado Freedom of Information Coalition

They are active in freedom of information issues/cases involving the media - and when they involve themselves in a dispute, they make sure to publicize it - a great resource!

Not sure what other documents will be filed on the “regular” case website - I would *assume* that’s where they would be, since (at least for now) they are filing using the criminal caption.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Could SW’s pillowcase or another one of her possessions like a scarf, or other item she had worn been used?

I think it’s odd that it was requested for DNA to be examined from the girls by the defense. It seems if they would be bold enough to emphasize that, that he may have “thought ahead” in thinking he could outsmart experts with yet another one of his series ot blunders.

My best guess is that he's confident his DNA will not be found on their necks. To that end if he didn't wear gloves, he made sure that he didn't put his bare hands on their necks. He could have used a ligature, twisted the pillowcases to strangle them or smothered them with a pillow. There has to be a reason why the pillowcases were in the trash can.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Good question! I think it’s interesting how many police forces are using drones in SAR or investigative work now. In a case in California they used it to look for evidence in the Malibu canyons where the brush is very thick. I’m glad they seem to be embracing the technology.

I work in Emergency Services in Australia and we use drones a lot, for LE and for firefighting too, they’ll send them up to survey a fire. They’re very helpful!

On the flip side, I was watching the news and saw some prisoners got Chinese Take-out by drone, lol

 

[dixiegirl1035]

They are active in freedom of information issues/cases involving the media - and when they involve themselves in a dispute, they make sure to publicize it - a great resource!

Not sure what other documents will be filed on the “regular” case website - I would *assume* that’s where they would be, since (at least for now) they are filing using the criminal caption.

I guess it just makes me wonder what other motions outside of the criminal case we are missing that could be public knowledge but folks need to know to look for? If you know what I mean. Again, thanks for finding that and bring to our attention