Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #40

[flourish]

Or maybe there was no underlying negative emotion at all, or "undercurrent of restlessness" and she thought her parents would like seeing the kids playing with water. Remember the admonition from a few weeks ago that abuse should be considered because she let her VERY LITTLE kids play with the jets on a water slide.

I don't remember "the admonition." Can you clarify, please? I remember the water park video...

 

[gitana1]

Yes, I have asthma and a splash of water in MY face would cause me problems. The discussion was about the "spraying" video. The contention was one faction saying it cannot be reasonably interpreted except as a fun, benign happening. And I don't feel that way. I don't have to regard SW as a flawless person in order to be sad she was murdered and the girls murdered. And I feel the videos give a lot of clues about the crime and how I think SW was being gaslighted by CW. Reasonable people can differ, and I like to hear various opinions, not jump on them or try to shut them down when they don't jive with mine.

Edited, spelled jive wrong

I have asthma too. So does my brother. He was hospitalized repeatedly throughout his childhood.

And yet our parents allowed us to run and swim and scream and laugh and ride bikes and play hard as hell.

I guess they should've had us kids taken away.

 

[PommyMommy]

It was stated that a press release was done at 7 a.m. on Tuesday morning. Come to think of it, I'm surprised that we've never had a poster find that press release and post it if I can recall correctly. Some press releases aren't to the public, they are only through special media channels, but I would think that a poster here had access to such.

IIRC, there was a statement issued by the Town of Frederick. As that was nearly two months ago, I'm going to call that MOO!

 

[MsBetsy]

Do you have children? I'm asking because children in general love playing in water or anything to do with water. We'd have to file charges on 80% of parents or more if playing with water/squirting them constituted hostility. It's like saying that parents who tickle their kids are hostile. <modsnip - rude >

Yes, children love water. Its also an important sensory tool. That's why they have "water tables" in preschool. In summer school they play under a sprinkler. Kids get their faces wet and water in their eyes. Some love to have it sprayed in their mouth, just like Bella. Watching the video I got the impression they had done this before, and perhaps Bella asked for water to be squirted in her mouth and discovered it was fun. I detected no hostility in Shananns voice. She spoke in a tone that is common when speaking to little ones. I don't see a problem at all. Bella was delighted. The video captured a fun activity that I'm sure the family is grateful to have. Jmo

 

[PommyMommy]

I believe that quote from the reporter, that he killed them all, was in the first day or two when the brother and others had thought that he confessed to killing all of them because they had just learned that he had confessed, and knew where the bodies were. So the Assumption was at the very beginning that he had confessed to killing them all. In my opinion. That's a carryover from the initial misreporting.

IIRC, there was a statement issued by the Town of Frederick. As that was nearly two months ago, I'm going to call that MOO!

This article includes the BOLO by The Town of Frederick: Pregnant Colorado mom, 2 daughters mysteriously vanish, police say

 

[Deleted member 182072]

After His Pregnant Wife Vanishes, Husband Said Their Marriage Was Having Problems: Report

That’s when, Atkinson said, Chris allegedly made a surprising disclosure.
“I didn’t find out that they were going to separate or anything like that until I called Chris that morning,” she told ABC. “When I called him and asked him where she was, that’s when he told me and I basically told him that that wasn’t my [concern] at that particular moment, because it wasn’t and that their business was their business, that they would either work it out or they wouldn’t.”​

BBM
I wonder how many weeks CW may have been planning their murders. The VI who was a friend or family member of CW said he had told SW multiple times that he wanted out of their marriage. Maybe he just told HIS family and friends when he went back to NC for that final week. He could have told them not to mention it to SW or her family because she hadn't told them herself because she was still in denial.

Yes, there was the employee at her mom's salon who mentioned a possible separation but SW's closest friends didn't seem to know anything about a separation. NUA was her best friend, had just spent the AZ trip with her and was the last person to see her alive. She first heard from CW about a marital separation the first day they went 'missing'.

Idk, maybe it's just me but I would confide in my best friend before my own family. I never tell a family member something I wouldn't want everyone else in my family to know because they just aren't good at keeping secrets.

Anyway, my theory is that CW was planting the seeds in NC for his family and friends to back up his story about him wanting a separation. I think he even told them that she was threatening to take the girls and he would never see them again if he left her.

And if only his friends and family knew about a separation, that pretty much rules out him killing them in a rage because it means he was planning to kill them for weeks. MOO

 

[Thepoet]

I believe very strongly that CW was going to murder his family eventually! There is something in his mental and emotional make up that was going to lead to this horrific outcome. Shanann, Bella, Cece, and Nico are the victims and I don't believe anything they did caused this to happen. Or that anything they could have done, or not done, would have prevented it. It's terrifying, but there are human monsters out there. This is the reason the FBi has a department for dealing with it, and I'm sure other LE do too. If it hadn't happened now, then at some point CW would have needed something, wanted something, believed he deserved something, and he would have eliminated those in his way to make it happen. He's not the first, and sadly, probably will not be the last.

CW is the one who lied, and admitted to lying!

CW is the one who cheated, and has admitted to cheating!

CW is the one who obstructed justice, and has admitted to obstructing justice!

CW is the one who has killed another human being, and has admitted killing!

Him, and him alone.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

I'm not convinced either, but what has me leaning toward it being hidden between the cushions rather than accidentally slipping between them is that recent photos show a cover on her phone. I can't tell if the cover is smooth plastic or more like the rubber Otter-Box covers.

Either way, when I watch the video (full-screen) where CeCe is walking with her full weight on the sofa, the cushions don't seem to give much. At least, not enough for a phone to "slip" between the cushions. They seem to be pretty solid. But again, I think the phone case might make a difference.
MOO

Photo of phone in AZ here: Chilling final picture posted by murdered mom Shanann Watts shows doll wrapped in FUNERAL SHROUD | Daily Mail Online

Video that shows a pink phone case during NC vacation here: Slain family captured vacationing in Carolinas days before the murders

Oh I think he hid it there. I just don't see her voluntarily parting with her phone long enough for it to get lost. CW had to pass that sofa on his way downstairs from the bedrooms so I think he stashed the phone between the cushions during his 'clean-up' and planned to retrieve it later.

 

[Seattle1]

In the affidavit? You're right, it doesn't say they're the same. Were the sheets and pillowcases in the trash can from the girls bed? But the fitted sheet found at the tank site matched the sheet/pillowcases found in the trash can? Aren't they the sheets from the bed in the master bedroom? I'm really confused now.

My sometimes twisted logic:

• LE observed bedding/sheets on bedroom floor at wellness check,
• LE recovered fitted sheet at dump/tank site,
• LE returned to house for warrant search and located bedding/sheets (with pattern matching fitted sheet) in the garbage bin.

I believe sheets in garbage were formerly on bedroom floor.

 

[Gardener1850]

I'm not convinced either, but what has me leaning toward it being hidden between the cushions rather than accidentally slipping between them is that recent photos show a cover on her phone. I can't tell if the cover is smooth plastic or more like the rubber Otter-Box covers.

Either way, when I watch the video (full-screen) where CeCe is walking with her full weight on the sofa, the cushions don't seem to give much. At least, not enough for a phone to "slip" between the cushions. They seem to be pretty solid. But again, I think the phone case might make a difference.
MOO

Photo of phone in AZ here: Chilling final picture posted by murdered mom Shanann Watts shows doll wrapped in FUNERAL SHROUD | Daily Mail Online

Video that shows a pink phone case during NC vacation here: Slain family captured vacationing in Carolinas days before the murders

You are right Pommy (you caught me I didn't watch the entire video before my first response LOL). Towards the end CeCe is walking all over the couch and the cushions are staying down. What makes me still think that the phone could slip there, however, is that it appears the gap between seat cushions is wide enough for CeCe's foot to go in between them. Plus, we don't know if "between the cushions" references the seat cushions or the back cushions. It may have been found behind the large pillows or between the back and seat cushions (where the two form an L shape). Also was the phone completely hidden or partially visible/sticking out? We don't know. So I'm going to say either scenario still seems likely in mind. It could have been hidden or it could have gotten there accidentally. MOO.

 

[DexterMorgan]

My sometimes twisted logic:

• LE observed bedding/sheets on bedroom floor at wellness check,
• LE recovered fitted sheet at dump/tank site,
• LE returned to house for warrant search and located bedding/sheets (with pattern matching fitted sheet) in the garbage bin.

I believe sheets in garbage were formerly on bedroom floor.

CW was too scared to go on a garbage dump. I wonder if LE left a car in front of his house until the search warrant was ready?

Plus I guess he didn't allow anyone to visit him while having his bedsheets in the kitchen trash can.

Because that would be a weird conversation if one of his friends or family have noticed that while near the kitchen. Smh

 

[ZsaZsa]

CW was too scared to go on a garbage dump. I wonder if LE left a car in front of his house until the search warrant was ready?

Plus I guess he didn't allow anyone to visit him while having his bedsheets in the kitchen trash can.

Because that would be a weird conversation if one of his friends or family have noticed that while near the kitchen. Smh

Yes I would love to have heard his explanation for the sheets in the garbage.

 

[Deleted member 182072]

I do have children. I also work with children & families. In fact, if this video becomes an issue in the case and/or the central theme of hostility I personally find disturbing is a main point of discussion (which it may never be), I might consider becoming verified. As of right now, my career has no bearing on our discussions, other than to say I feel that I have a good point of reference for my opinions on this.

STOP the parenting debate now, everyone. This is one of the fastest ways to get a thread shut down. Do you all remember the recent family annihilator case of the Hart family? The 2 moms who drove their entire family off a cliff, killing everyone? We no longer have an open thread for that case primarily because members made everything personal and turned the thread into a giant parenting debate and pretty much forgot about the missing and murdered children.

We're not going to do that in this case, okay? When you or I or my next door neighbor puts their children to bed or wakes them up does not matter. Whether we give our kids sugar or think it's poison does not matter.

Please stay on topic. This is about Shan'ann's murder and the murder of her beautiful children. It's not about you, me, or anyone else. Don't take posts personally.

 

[Best of What's Around]

CW was too scared to go on a garbage dump. I wonder if LE left a car in front of his house until the search warrant was ready?

Plus I guess he didn't allow anyone to visit him while having his bedsheets in the kitchen trash can.

Because that would be a weird conversation if one of his friends or family have noticed that while near the kitchen. Smh

I also found it odd to put them in the trash when he could have folded them up and put them in the closet. He didn't think it would be suspicious to put any personal items in the trash so soon? Good point about the police car. I do think the Thayers came over that first or at least second day to be there with him.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I also found it odd to put them in the trash when he could have folded them up and put them in the closet. He didn't think it would be suspicious to put any personal items in the trash so soon? Good point about the police car. I do think the Thayers came over that first or at least second day to be there with him.

Candidate for the Einstein award?

 

[Jennifer17]

Yes I would love to have heard his explanation for the sheets in the garbage.

I would love to have seen his face every time LE undid one of his many lies and showed him the evidence and still he kept lying.
Showed him the drone footage of her shallow grave.
Found her body.
Found the children in oil vats.
Still lying and denying the affair.
AP confirmed it.
And still lying about how the girls died.
How could anyone believe one word this cowardly lying person says?

 

[whisperOFwings]

While we don't know for certain, I think it's reasonable to assume that the sheets were from the master bedroom. The Affidavit said the bed had been stripped and the bedding was on the floor but that could also have included a blanket or duvet. It also stated that the sheet found at the oil field matched the pattern of several pillowcases and a top sheet recovered from a kitchen trash can.

Nowhere was it stated in the Affidavit that sheets or pillowcases were missing from the children's beds.

In Caylee's case we were able to see the bed sheets as the detectives brought the bags out of the house. We could see the Winnie the Pooh pattern.
I can't quite tell from these pictures, if there are tan sheets at the bottom of the bag and a blue? sheet at the top of bag??
That's a big bag though. It looks to be larger sized sheets, not twin sized???
From this link...
Christopher Watts is denied bail in the murder of his wife and young children | Daily Mail Online

 

[PommyMommy]

You are right Pommy (you caught me I didn't watch the entire video before my first response LOL). Towards the end CeCe is walking all over the couch and the cushions are staying down. What makes me still think that the phone could slip there, however, is that it appears the gap between seat cushions is wide enough for CeCe's foot to go in between them. Plus, we don't know if "between the cushions" references the seat cushions or the back cushions. It may have been found behind the large pillows or between the back and seat cushions (where the two form an L shape). Also was the phone completely hidden or partially visible/sticking out? We don't know. So I'm going to say either scenario still seems likely in mind. It could have been hidden or it could have gotten there accidentally. MOO.

I see an experiment taking place sometime in the near future. I think I know someone who has a very similar sectional sofa.

MOO

 

[DexterMorgan]

Yes I would love to have heard his explanation for the sheets in the garbage.

Exactly. He was a deer caught in headlights ever since the initial welfare check was done.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

IIRC, there was a statement issued by the Town of Frederick. As that was nearly two months ago, I'm going to call that MOO!

I wasn't directing it at anybody as to proving it happened! I just really wanted to read it because it seemed like the media, when they walked up to the door, knew a lot of information. And I just really wanted to see the original press release that was done that morning to the media that made them show up at his door early on Tuesday morning. I'm just curious as to the language and what that original press release had in it.

ETA! I see you posted it in a later post! Thank you so very much! I have never seen it before

"Missing Persons - Be On the Lookout
On August 13, 2018, the Frederick Police Department was notified of 3 missing persons. Shanann Watts 34 years old, and her two daughters that are 3 and 4 years old are missing as well. Shanann is also 15 weeks pregnant. There is no vehicle associated at this time.
If you have any information regarding this case, Please contact the Frederick Police Department at 720-382-5700 or dispatch at 720-652-4222 with any information regarding this BOLO."

It does appear that the media had a lot more information, as they knew she was pregnant and she had just returned from a trip from a trip Etc before they did the interviews.